TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

I'm sure they are confident, they wouldn't be doing it otherwise. But that doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do, at least from my point of view. If you don't finish major design before you start making prototypes you risk making the prototypes unrepresentative of the final product. You might still be able to get some valuable data from these prototypes but it also means you'll need to make entirely new prototypes that  are representative of the final product and you'll have to redo tests with these new prototypes.

There's a reason, for example, the B-21 program has emphasized getting its prototypes as production representative as possible. It reduces risk when shifting to actual production aircraft. And it seems to have really worked for them. I think TAI is really risking having to increase the development period to deal with major design changes made after prototypes were produced, or running into major issues when shifting to production aircraft, or ending up with issues sort of like the concurrency issues the F-35 had but with even greater changes between aircraft.
Just my thoughts. To me it sounds like they are building separate prototypes from different design stages. Current prototype and the one that's slated to fly this year sounds more like a Rafale A equivalent (I mean the similarities even go as far as how they are both equipped with interim engines) than, say a F-22 EMD prototypes or F-35 SDD prototypes.

Though, who knows, maybe they want to reflect some learnings from the flight test campaign in their critical design for the aircraft. CDR, from what I remember is planned for 2024. They've got some time to do just that by flying the prototype earlier. It's one of their first supersonic, manned, air breathing, combat aircraft after all. Sounds like some valuable experience for the Turkish engineers if we disregard the possibility of added costs. Then again, this program will be the future backbone of their air force so maybe they ain't holding back in terms of budgets. It's not like their parliament is waiting to scream murder if there's any cost overruns unlike in Western countries.
 
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I'm sure they are confident, they wouldn't be doing it otherwise. But that doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do, at least from my point of view. If you don't finish major design before you start making prototypes you risk making the prototypes unrepresentative of the final product. You might still be able to get some valuable data from these prototypes but it also means you'll need to make entirely new prototypes that  are representative of the final product and you'll have to redo tests with these new prototypes.

There's a reason, for example, the B-21 program has emphasized getting its prototypes as production representative as possible. It reduces risk when shifting to actual production aircraft. And it seems to have really worked for them. I think TAI is really risking having to increase the development period to deal with major design changes made after prototypes were produced, or running into major issues when shifting to production aircraft, or ending up with issues sort of like the concurrency issues the F-35 had but with even greater changes between aircraft.
Just my thoughts. To me it sounds like they are building separate prototypes from different design stages. Current prototype and the one that's slated to fly this year sounds more like a Rafale A equivalent (I mean the similarities even go as far as how they are both equipped with interim engines) than, say a F-22 EMD prototypes or F-35 SDD prototypes.

Though, who knows, maybe they want to reflect some learnings from the flight test campaign in their critical design for the aircraft. CDR, from what I remember is planned for 2024. They've got some time to do just that by flying the prototype earlier. It's one of their first supersonic, manned, air breathing, combat aircraft after all. Sounds like some valuable experience for the Turkish engineers if we disregard the possibility of added costs. Then again, this program will be the future backbone of their air force so maybe they ain't holding back in terms of budgets. It's not like their parliament is waiting to scream murder if there's any cost overruns unlike in Western countries.
Acc. to CEO Kotil's latest statements, CDR is going to be completed before the maiden flight.

That means the CDR will also be done around a year earlier. So all in all it seems that they are around a year ahead of the original plan.

I mean that makes a lot of sense, they need A LOT of data and the only way to get it is to fly the aircraft as soon and as much as possible. You can't do that if you wait a year or two for the readiness of the intended avionics so you might as well do flight tests now as the plane is already ready. They could simulate the masses which is a common practice.
 
How much funding has the project received so far and how much in the future? Is it known how many foreign engineers have been scalped by Turkey? Also are western "rules based" countries sabotaging the program?

It is impressive. In spite of the downturn in global markets. It is wise to rapidly develop defense industries in these strange times. Over here in America we can look forward to building back better...
Please go back to the beginning of the thread and start reading instead of coming to the very end and asking. Hell you can even do something as simplistic as googling. It's derailing the thread while we have more important things to discuss.

Found some info on funding and tangential info implying potential sabotage on the program but if any of you here know more I would like to know.
 
Acc. to CEO Kotil's latest statements, CDR is going to be completed before the maiden flight.

That means the CDR will also be done around a year earlier. So all in all it seems that they are around a year ahead of the original plan.

I mean that makes a lot of sense, they need A LOT of data and the only way to get it is to fly the aircraft as soon and as much as possible. You can't do that if you wait a year or two for the readiness of the intended avionics so you might as well do flight tests now as the plane is already ready. They could simulate the masses which is a common practice.
Then it's almost guaranteed that there would be some changes, big or small, between the earlier and later prototypes.

I suspect that there would've been some structural changes to the development program in the last few years, since I remember that the original plan was to build 3 flyable development prototype from 2025 after they build some ground test vehicles in 2023, according to the Turkish Air Force presentation from a few years ago.

Now the number is 14 in total from what I remember. Of course it should be noted that some of them are supposedly prototypes with Turkish engines (4 or 6 iirc), but it still means more prototypes planned than it was before a few years ago.

Though most importantly from what I've searched up, the delivery deadline still seems to be around 2028~2029 period and IOC planned for early 2030s. The recent rescheduling rather seems like a rationalization than acceleration of the test campaign period. I had the impression that the older test campaign plan for the TF-X was too short in the first place.
 
Airframe design being frozen was the thing i have heard from them
Airframe design being frozen was the thing i have heard from them
Same thing here.
Airframe design outline is something that gets completed by PDR. In critical design you refine the inner details of the aircraft according to the actual designs of the equipments that goes into the aircraft, reflect the actual FLCS, avionics design and OFP, prepare the tooling for prototyping and manufacturing, refine individual components, etc.

In that sense, the "airframe design" would've been completed in the sense that it has reached its final design iteration (for example lockheed codes their design iterations in C###) by the time PDR was complete sometime last year. Though due to the reasons I've mentiomed above, that airframe design isn't necessarily representative of the future aircraft design iterations.

Which is also the reason people here, including me, are saying that it could possibly rssult in added costs/cost overruns and even overall delays to the program. Depending on the scope of changes to the critical design it could mean that you'll need to implement redesign of the manufacturing tooling, aircraft FLCS, redo structural analysis, etc.

Also, when the avionics are still not ready, it is odd to me that they are planning to accelerate the CDR to this year, because critical design would then have to continue until they have their avionics in place regardless of the CDR. In that sense they'll need to go through another review of the final design with all the avionics and components, although they probably wouldn't name it a CDR.

Of course all these concerns aren't a problem if the changes in critical design are minor. I guess those engineers at TAI are very sure that there wouldn't be much design alterations after this year and we'll see how true that outlook will be.
 
Also, when the avionics are still not ready, it is odd to me that they are planning to accelerate the CDR to this year, because critical design would then have to continue until they have their avionics in place regardless of the CDR. In that sense they'll need to go through another review of the final design with all the avionics and components, although they probably wouldn't name it a CDR.
The avionics are ready according to TAI.

Of course all these concerns aren't a problem if the changes in critical design are minor. I guess those engineers at TAI are very sure that there wouldn't be much design alterations after this year and we'll see how true that outlook will be.
Yep they're pretty confident. They've stressed that multiple times.
 
The avionics are ready according to TAI.
Yes, components like flight and mission computer, data bus, etc will be already in place but it's known matter that other key avionics/sensor suites are not there yet. They would've designed the airframe according to the dimensions and other specifications provided by their suppliers but there's always a chance of design alteration to those individual components as well.

Yep they're pretty confident. They've stressed that multiple times.
Like I've said, we'll see. All our discussions here are current observations anyways. I'm more keen on waiting for the 2025~2026 period, when the original "block 0" aircraft was supposed to be rolled out and fly. We'll know where the program is and if our/Turkish considerations were correct when we see the latest prototypes from that period.
 
Also, when the avionics are still not ready, it is odd to me that they are planning to accelerate the CDR to this year, because critical design would then have to continue until they have their avionics in place regardless of the CDR. In that sense they'll need to go through another review of the final design with all the avionics and components, although they probably wouldn't name it a CDR.
The avionics are ready according to TAI.

Of course all these concerns aren't a problem if the changes in critical design are minor. I guess those engineers at TAI are very sure that there wouldn't be much design alterations after this year and we'll see how true that outlook will be.
Yep they're pretty confident. They've stressed that multiple times.
Yeah but some major sensors such as the EOTS, IRST or the BÜRFİS Radar aren't quite ready yet.
 

From Tolga Ozbek, Turkish Aerospace Journalist;



MMU's roadmap​

Normally, the first flight date for the MMU is 2025. The target is to launch a model close to the 5th generation with the AESA radar and stealth design in the first stage and fly it with American General Electric F110 engines. The second stage is to produce the first Block with F110 engines of approximately 40 units. The third stage is to develop a domestic jet engine to be developed in Turkey, which will also receive technological assistance from abroad, and turn it into a true 5th generation.

mmu-basin-toplantisi-1-Buyuk.jpeg


The first plane will fly by the end of 2023​

Briefly, it is necessary to ask which aircraft will make the first flight at the end of 2023. My interpretation is a basic prototype that will demonstrate the concept's flyability, with basic flight data to follow. After all, the TAI team is justifiably proud of this work, and all the results have been verified by computer simulations.

The Critical Design Review, called CDR, will end and the first MMU will fly by the end of the year. It will be followed by the second fully equipped MMU 2025 with AESA radar. Then the delivery target in 2028 is current.

I saw the plane​

A Block, MMU production line. Right behind the MMU Engineering building. Already, the engineering teams and production lines of all facilities, from helicopters to UAVs, from component manufacturing to satellites, are side by side. This building was completed at the end of March 2022. Production started immediately in April.

A giant plane greets us inside the building. I'm excited about what to do. The MMU is so imposing that it's very different from the mock-up we've seen before.

Unlike the last photo, the plane's radome, engines, vertical stabilizer have been disassembled again. More precisely, the team on it is plugging and unplugging. I took the following notes in my notebook:

A gigantic radome: The radome standing on the side is incredibly large. A giant AESA radar of ASELSAN will come into it. This radar will control all targets in air-air, air-ground, air-sea. It will be the pilot's eye.

Domestic canopy: Ankara-based company VOLO manufactures the canopy. Not only MMU, HÜRKUŞ, HÜRJET canopies are also made by VOLO. This canopy is very important in terms of flight safety, both in terms of bird strikes and fragmentation of the canopy during launch, giving optical vision to the pilot.

Landing gear: The aircraft is on its own landing gear. For example, the nose landing gear is single wheeled. Previously on the mock-up, this design was a double wheel. “It was a mock-up, now it's real design,” the team says when asked. The landing gear manufactured by TAAC, the joint company of TAI and Altunay, is also beautiful in appearance. Meanwhile, TAAC also makes the landing gear and weapon compartment covers of the aircraft.

The engines have arrived: both TAI experts and our Air Force on F110 engines. If an agreement is made, TEI will build 80 or more engines of the 40 aircraft to be produced in Eskişehir.

Fuel tests have begun: The plane has three main fuel systems. Both tests have been completed. Working on the third. The hydraulic tests were to begin on the Wednesday evening when we visited. The system works with a pressure of 4500 psi. Limits will be observed.

It consists of four parts: the plane, the four main parts. Front cockpit, middle fuselage, wings and tail. 7050 and 77450 series aluminum in the front part, titanium in the middle. Outer sheath, air intake inlets composite.

Robots will paint: TAI was painting the parts it produced in the F-35 with robot systems. In this way, paint of equal thickness could be applied everywhere on the body. This system will also be used for painting the MMU.

Which systems are foreign: the engine (in the first place), the ejection seat (English Martin Baker) and some valve systems are foreign. So locality is around 85%.

Does the MMU fly without a pilot: When the pilot faints, for example, the aircraft will be able to land in the nearest square with situational awareness. The goal is to enable the aircraft with the fly by wire system to be flown without a pilot.

Will there be a two-seater model: When we asked Mr. Temel about this, we got the answer “No”. He said that there is no need for a second seat on this plane, that you can do everything yourself.

A high manufacturing quality​

TAI teams made a clean production in terms of external appearance. The surface of the plane, the quality of the parts, is clean and shiny when you look from the outside. TAI has been producing parts for world giants for years. Adds to that his engineering. It's getting a patent. MMU is the current culmination of this work.

production line​

Block A will be the prototype production site. Two planes can be produced at the same time. In the next step, a facility where 10 aircraft will be produced at the same time will be built next to it. Soon, the wind tunnel test center will open in April. You can immediately ask where the tests were done. The world's leading wind tunnel test centers were used for the MMU. This will be followed by the facility for the aircraft's electromagnetic testing.

When our visit was completed and I was in front of the screen for the live broadcast, I shared this with the audience. When I looked at the comments, while I was conveying the excitement I experienced, the audience also received it. Everyone was very enthusiastic.

This project started with great enthusiasm. It continues with enthusiasm. It is necessary to continue design and production by transferring this to new projects without losing our experienced teams. Because in aviation, systems are renewed on average every 10 years. It is either modernized or the engine is changed, for example. In order to achieve this, we need to work hard and not lose our excitement.

As a result, the MMU is the "best answer" to the whole world while waiting in line to get the F-16 out of the F-35. As I always say, MMU is our country's “War of Liberation in the Air

 
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The second stage is to produce the first Block with F110 engines of approximately 40 units. The third stage is to develop a domestic jet engine to be developed in Turkey, which will also receive technological assistance from abroad, and turn it into a true 5th generation.
I've heard time and time again the Turks saying "TF-X will be delivered with national engines starting from 2028" "F110 only for tbe prototypes", but turns out they've realised that was an unrealistic expectation and plan. Initial production variant with F110 sounds way more feasible.

It's a good lesson for Turkish enthusiasts, that maybe, they should take their official announcements with a grain of salt instead of blindly believing and spamming "they'd know better" to anyone who gives a hint of doubt based on history of defence and aviation programs around the world.

Also we'll see if Turkey could receive foreign assistance with their engine. I'd say there's no chance in hell if they insist on keeping their current demands of terms of contract. If they ultimately go alone, the risks involved and program prospects would obviously be wildly different. Though I wouldn't judge their claims of flying the first prototype with Turkish engines by, iirc late 2020s on either situations.
 
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Something I Just realized reading the ATX thread, the rear of the TF-X is very similar. (hinged F-35 style with stabs on top of the engines)
 

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Now that it's been confirmed that TFX will utilise both IRST and EOT, we can summarise current capabilities of Turkey's E/O industry.

Last year, Aselsan presented it's highest resolution thermal imaging detector @ 1280x1024 10µm MWIR MCT FPA - this will be the likely FPA to be used on TFX
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ROIC
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Do you have any info about LWIR, which would probably be used by the IRST
 
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Found at the PDF:
I've been wondering what TFX looks like for a long time. Some of them produced images by computer-processing photos rationed by the SSB.

I chose the classical way. I took the pen. I reviewed the limited number of photos published by the SSB. I tried to make a 3D drawing of TFX, taking into account the joint surfaces on the fuselage. It was an amateurish drawing. The result looks like the following.

TFX - MMU sketch - 1.jpg TFX - MMU sketch - 2.jpg
 
Found at the PDF:
I've been wondering what TFX looks like for a long time. Some of them produced images by computer-processing photos rationed by the SSB.

I chose the classical way. I took the pen. I reviewed the limited number of photos published by the SSB. I tried to make a 3D drawing of TFX, taking into account the joint surfaces on the fuselage. It was an amateurish drawing. The result looks like the following.

View attachment 692028View attachment 692027
There are many inaccuracies but it still resembles the prototype
 
Found at the PDF:
I've been wondering what TFX looks like for a long time. Some of them produced images by computer-processing photos rationed by the SSB.

I chose the classical way. I took the pen. I reviewed the limited number of photos published by the SSB. I tried to make a 3D drawing of TFX, taking into account the joint surfaces on the fuselage. It was an amateurish drawing. The result looks like the following.

View attachment 692028View attachment 692027
There are many inaccuracies but it still resembles the prototype

You mean like how the fasteners have been converted into panels ?
 
National Combat Aircraft Group Presidency has just been established.

View: https://twitter.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/1625766724694941702?s=20&t=IvKDLZC3aWYPfe5BsVCVfQ



The "National Combat Aircraft Group Presidency" was established under the Presidency of Defense Industries. The newly established Group Presidency will focus solely on the TF-X Project.

It is considered that this change will make significant contributions to the speed of decisions to be taken regarding the TF-X program. On the other hand, other aircraft projects such as HÜRJET and HÜRKUŞ will be carried out by the Aircraft Department as before. Within the "TF-X Department", there are staff from the Air Force Command with the rank of Brigadier General.
 
FmL_LrmWIAY7ghm-2.jpeg

The contracts for the Detail Design and Clarification Phase, which is planned to be completed by the last quarter of 2028, are expected to be signed at the DSEI 2023 fair to be held in England in September, when the CDR process of the Block 10 aircraft will be completed. It is anticipated that the Detail Design and Clarification Phase and IOC/FOC will cost approximately $7.3 billion, with an additional $14 billion required for mass production of the 5th generation MMU/TF-X warplanes. While the unit cost for prototype aircraft is estimated at 120 million dollars, it is estimated that mass production TF-X aircraft will cost 80 million dollars.

The materials used in the under structure of the MMU/TF-X aircraft are as follows:

-Forward Fuselage: 7050 T7451 aluminum alloy

-Forward-mid Fuselage: 7050 T7451 aluminum alloy. It is 5 meters wide, 4.2 meters long and 2.2 meters high, with a structural weight of 1470 kilograms.

-Wing Module System: Titanium. This section of the fuselage of the MMU/TF-X aircraft was built vertically and manufactured in one piece with the wings. Total weight of the structure is 2125 kilograms.

-Aft Fuselage System: Titanium. Its total weight is 3945 kilograms.

As things stand, the TF-X is larger and lighter than the Raptor.

In the MMU/TF-X aircraft, composite materials, namely UD, Uni-Directional epoxy resin impregnated Carbon Prepreg is used as the Body Shell. The design of the monolithic air intakes of the aircraft, which is made of composite materials using the hand layup method, features an S-duct geometry. It starts from the front body and extends to the rear engine section, 6 on the left and right, a total of 12. There are two Horizontal Stabilizers on the aircraft. A single one of these control surfaces is as large as the wing of an F-16. It is 2.9 meters wide, 4.1 meters long, 0.4 meters high, and weighs 235 kilograms.

In the information sharing about the MMU/TF-X GTU/P0 prototype, it was stated that they do not have any definitive data on the size and weight of the aircraft, because the figures supposedly emerged as the design got finalized and the domestic subsystems used in the aircraft were delivered. For instance, since the main and nose landing gears used in the aircraft have not been produced before, there is no weight information available for the landing gears, as the weight may increase or decrease when the quality of the material changes during the production, testing and delivery processes. Therefore, it is possible that there will be differences between the previously shared technical specifications of the aircraft and the technical specifications of the GTU/P0 and the next 7 prototypes. In the posters in the MMU hangar, the maximum speed of the aircraft is specified as Mach 2, the maximum ceiling altitude is 60,000 feet, the service ceiling is 55,000 feet, the maximum weight is 20,000lb, the G limits are +9/-3G, the turning performance is mach 0.9 and 9G at 15,000 feet, and 4G at 0,9 mach and 30,000 feet.


thx to İbrahim Sünnetçi

Subscribers to the DefenceTurkey magazine will get more insights such as this.
 
Did they recent earthquakes had any effect on the development?
It did not, thankfully the main centers of the defence industry are well outside of the affected areas.

Aside from that, what most people don't understand is, the MMU program is simply too big to be affected from anyhing really. It is a huge and challenging task but (objectively speaking) this is the result of 50 years of hardwork and planning so no matter what externally happens, it can only be affected if the country simply ceases to exist. Turkey as a country and people went through a lot of hardships in the last couple of decades but even then this national fighter development was always the pinnacle and compass of national defence development.
 
Did they recent earthquakes had any effect on the development?
It did not, thankfully the main centers of the defence industry are well outside of the affected areas.

Aside from that, what most people don't understand is, the MMU program is simply too big to be affected from anyhing really. It is a huge and challenging task but (objectively speaking) this is the result of 50 years of hardwork and planning so no matter what externally happens, it can only be affected if the country simply ceases to exist. Turkey as a country and people went through a lot of hardships in the last couple of decades but even then this national fighter development was always the pinnacle and compass of national defence development.

This is pretty much how every Turkish Defence analyst views the TFX project, there is no room for failure in its development.
 
Did they recent earthquakes had any effect on the development?
It did not, thankfully the main centers of the defence industry are well outside of the affected areas.

Aside from that, what most people don't understand is, the MMU program is simply too big to be affected from anyhing really. It is a huge and challenging task but (objectively speaking) this is the result of 50 years of hardwork and planning so no matter what externally happens, it can only be affected if the country simply ceases to exist. Turkey as a country and people went through a lot of hardships in the last couple of decades but even then this national fighter development was always the pinnacle and compass of national defence development.

This is pretty much how every Turkish Defence analyst views the TFX project, there is no room for failure in its development.

I cannot see the TFX failing at this stage of development, though it depends on how the program develops in the future and also how much funding the TFX gets as well.


Really? I see still now many - maybe not technical ones - reasons it could fail and in fact it won't be the first time a technically sound project got ruined: For example political issues (let Turkey still block Sweden and Finland join NATO and a resulting veto for the engines from the US?)
 
Did they recent earthquakes had any effect on the development?
It did not, thankfully the main centers of the defence industry are well outside of the affected areas.

Aside from that, what most people don't understand is, the MMU program is simply too big to be affected from anyhing really. It is a huge and challenging task but (objectively speaking) this is the result of 50 years of hardwork and planning so no matter what externally happens, it can only be affected if the country simply ceases to exist. Turkey as a country and people went through a lot of hardships in the last couple of decades but even then this national fighter development was always the pinnacle and compass of national defence development.

This is pretty much how every Turkish Defence analyst views the TFX project, there is no room for failure in its development.

I cannot see the TFX failing at this stage of development, though it depends on how the program develops in the future and also how much funding the TFX gets as well.


Really? I see still now many - maybe not technical ones - reasons it could fail and in fact it won't be the first time a technically sound project got ruined: For example political issues (let Turkey still block Sweden and Finland join NATO and a resulting veto for the engines from the US?)
If somehow the fact that there is a embargo on the supply of American primary engines for the TF-X is allowed, then the program only risks postponing the release of its first flight models. This will not put an end to the project itself. From a political point of view, neither Sweden nor Finland are NATO countries, which cannot be said about an ally in the alliance - Turkey. It would be very strange if the States would veto their ally because of disagreements between Turkey and the Scandinavian countries for very objective reasons - security guarantees. NATO is a security organization, not a den of political prostitution. And until Turkey's concerns are resolved, these countries will not receive a green signal. Yes, and Turkey is an integral part of NATO, I would say one of the supporting blocks of the foundation. It cannot be excluded, otherwise the Block will cease to exist. In addition, there are several countries that are ready to raise their hands - Russia and China. It is impossible to manipulate Turkey, it is utopian. The states will not take this step.
 
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Did they recent earthquakes had any effect on the development?
It did not, thankfully the main centers of the defence industry are well outside of the affected areas.

Aside from that, what most people don't understand is, the MMU program is simply too big to be affected from anyhing really. It is a huge and challenging task but (objectively speaking) this is the result of 50 years of hardwork and planning so no matter what externally happens, it can only be affected if the country simply ceases to exist. Turkey as a country and people went through a lot of hardships in the last couple of decades but even then this national fighter development was always the pinnacle and compass of national defence development.

This is pretty much how every Turkish Defence analyst views the TFX project, there is no room for failure in its development.

I cannot see the TFX failing at this stage of development, though it depends on how the program develops in the future and also how much funding the TFX gets as well.


Really? I see still now many - maybe not technical ones - reasons it could fail and in fact it won't be the first time a technically sound project got ruined: For example political issues (let Turkey still block Sweden and Finland join NATO and a resulting veto for the engines from the US?)
I don't mean this as an insult of any form dear @Deino but this is just parochial thinking, man.

What good is a military alliance if a member is forced to give up valid security assurances? It's all give and take man, not take and take. This is what Western people don't understand. As long as there's no equality and mutual respect between people and countries, this alliance is doomed to dysfunction.
 
Did they recent earthquakes had any effect on the development?
It did not, thankfully the main centers of the defence industry are well outside of the affected areas.

Aside from that, what most people don't understand is, the MMU program is simply too big to be affected from anyhing really. It is a huge and challenging task but (objectively speaking) this is the result of 50 years of hardwork and planning so no matter what externally happens, it can only be affected if the country simply ceases to exist. Turkey as a country and people went through a lot of hardships in the last couple of decades but even then this national fighter development was always the pinnacle and compass of national defence development.

This is pretty much how every Turkish Defence analyst views the TFX project, there is no room for failure in its development.

I cannot see the TFX failing at this stage of development, though it depends on how the program develops in the future and also how much funding the TFX gets as well.


Really? I see still now many - maybe not technical ones - reasons it could fail and in fact it won't be the first time a technically sound project got ruined: For example political issues (let Turkey still block Sweden and Finland join NATO and a resulting veto for the engines from the US?)
I don't mean this as an insult of any form dear @Deino but this is just parochial thinking, man.

What good is a military alliance if a member is forced to give up valid security assurances? It's all give and take man, not take and take. This is what Western people don't understand. As long as there's no equality and mutual respect between people and countries, this alliance is doomed to dysfunction.


As I said, I actually see the bird flying and am very happy that I was wrong with my old assessment, but it is far from being ready for series production and operational use; I stand by my assessment.
 
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A moderator reminder

This is the TFX thread, not the Turkish-Kurdish conflict thread. While I understand Politics are unavoidable sometimes as it influences aircraft development and acquirement..
lets do our best to stick to the actual aircraft
 

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