Little-Known French Projects and Prototypes

[hesham]

From l'Aeronautique 12/1937,


the designer Joseph Touya created a single seat low-wing tourist aircraft project,
all details are in the picture,it is not mentioned in TU magazine.

 

[hesham]

From l'Aeronautique 12/1938,


here is the SFCA Lignel 10,20 & 30 three view drawings.

 

[hesham]

From l'Aeronautique 1939,


here is an info about Guillemin JG.60.

 

[Stargazer]

Very nice... Thanks for sharing! (and please, DON'T thank me for thanking you...).

 

[cluttonfred]

From l'Aeronautique 1939,
here is an info about Guillemin JG.60.

Thanks, hesham, but the article you posted is incomplete. The complete article with many construction details from the magazine l'Aéronautique, No. 276, November 1939, pp 431-437 is available courtesy of the Gallica Bibliothèque Numérique (French National Library online digital archives): http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6554255p/f25.image.langFR There is lots of great stuff in there, I am going to have to spend some time looking around. I tried posting the actual .pdf of the article (reproduction permitted for non-commercial use with acknowledgement of the source) but it must be too big.

 

[Stargazer]

Here is the entire article in enhanced format:

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Guillemin JG.50 was two-seat twin engined light tourist aircraft project,powered
by two 40 hp Mengin 2A-01 engines.

 

[Stargazer]

the Guillemin JG.50 was

"PROBABLY." The text makes it clear that the designations JG 50 and JG 60 have not been confirmed.

 

[c460]

Sema 10 and 12

In this extract posted by Toura from Aviation Magazine, the picture captioned as Sema 12 actually shows the Belgian trainer LACAB T.7 registered OO-ANL. There was a mistake in the caption, as discussed here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22526.msg241810.html#msg241810

 

[toura]

Hi C460

You are right !!!My document is an erronous one !
THE PHOTO is a bad one
THE 3 VIEWS is a good one

??????????????
Bye PAUL

 

[hesham]

mysteries in that French George Messier's site,unknown projects;
http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements6.php

Schreck (FBA) 330

Hi,


everyday,I discover the George Messier site is right,and I think all word in it is true,someone
told me that,when I sent this post,the FBA ended its series by the designation 310,so the 330
was not logical,and I answer him now and also all one suspected in this site,that the FBA company
never stopped at designation 310,but in 1937,and in Air Ministry A.49 competition for E.D.2,or
two seat trainer flying boat,the FBA submitted the Model-350 Project,and that's evidence for
existing of Model-330.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is a Lachassagne aircraft drawing,but I don't know AL-? designation.


Flugsport 1925

 

[hesham]

here is the Jean Pajot light aircraft.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6568275z/f4.image

Also from Le FANA 236,here is the Pajot gliders.

 

[avion ancien]

here is a Lachassagne aircraft drawing,but I don't know AL-? designation

I think that it is the AL-3 of 1925

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Avion.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


in 1928 competition for twin engined three/four seat recce torpedo bomber seaplane,
the company FBA submitted a proposal,remained a mystery to this moment,does anyone
know it ?.

 

[hesham]

Old info from Internet;


the French Astra company designed a twin engined seaplane project after WW1,does
anyone know or hear about it ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


I understand from this paragraph on TU magazine,that,Mr. Bechereau designer created
a fighter from Mignet Pou de Ciel,is that right ?.

 

[Stargazer]

I understand from this paragraph on TU magazine,that,Mr. Bechereau designer created
a fighter from Mignet Pou de Ciel,is that right ?.

Not quite created "from" the Pou but rather inspired by the same general lines, yes.

 

[hesham]

Thank you Skyblazer.

 

[cluttonfred]

A fighter Pou du Ciel? Now that I'd like to see!

 

[avion ancien]

Are we talking about the Kellner-Béchereau E-60? I know of no Béchereau design that employed the Formule Mignet and I think it unlikely that he would do so. In terms of size, one might say that the Pou de Ciel could have 'inspired' the E-60 - but that does seem to stretch a point. Furthermore, the E-60 was a fighter trainer, rather than a fighter, and didn't fly until some five years after the date mentioned in the TU extract posted by Hesham.

It's certainly fair to say that after forming his company with Georges Kellner, Louis Béchereau designed and Kellner-Béchereau produced some rather unorthodox aeroplanes, such as the E-5 (q.v. http://www.the-blueprints.com/fr/blueprints/modernplanes/modern-jk/18389/view/kellner-bechereau_e-5/), and in a company document currently being offered for sale (q.v. http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/449283153/dossier-confidentiel-avions-kellner-bechereau-type-e-c-4-e1-de-kellner-bechereau.html) apparently there's mention of a type EC4 or C4E or CE4 (to none of which can I find any other reference). So whilst I know one should never say never, I remain rather sceptical about there having been - even if only on paper - a Béchereau Formule Mignet Chasseur.

 

[hesham]

My dear Avion,


here is a more info about E.4 from TU magazine issue 138.

 

[avion ancien]

Thank you, Hesham. The E.4 is relatively well known and it may be to this, in addition to the E.1, that the document for sale refers. But the document apparently refers to the second type, with which it deals, as the EC4/C4E/CE4. However this may be something of a 'red herring'. But I'm not prepared to fork out 99 € to find out!

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Avion,


and here is a small Info about EC.4 from A-Z magazine.

 

[avion ancien]

Thank you, again, Hesham. However to get back to the point - having spent some time on this enjoyable tangent - there's still no evidence that Louis Béchereau did come up with a fighter aeroplane design that was inspired by the Pou de Ciel, which I would deduce to mean that it employed the Formule Mignet, beyond the oblique reference in TU.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


a French designer called Boutiron created a seaplane project in 1920s,does anyone
hear about it ?.

 

[cluttonfred]

Mignet connections aside, the spit-wing approach of the KB E-5 is intriguing. If anyone can point me to any contemporary articles, flight test reports or other info, I'd be very grateful.

 

[hesham]

My dear Cluttonfred,


here is all I have about E-5 & ED-5.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Guillemin JG.11 was derivative of JG.10 as a tourist aircraft,powered by one
120 hp Renault 4 Pdi engine.

 

[cluttonfred]

That's Guillemin with two Ls, Hesham.

 

[Stargazer]

That's Guillemin with two Ls, Hesham

Exactly, and it makes quite a difference on the pronunciation, too, as the double "L" in such words is pronounced like the English "Y" ("baille" for instance is pronounced like "by" / "abeille" like "ah-bay" / "douillet" like "doo-yeah").

 

[hesham]

Fixed.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the French little known projects before WW1,the Alvaerz et de Conde,three aircraft;


1. Seaplane or flyingboat, model only.

2. An odd high-wing flyingboat with streamlined hull and pointed nose, fabricated from 2 layers of cedrat, a kind of lemon-wood, with fabric in between; the pilot was enclosed along with the engine which drove 2 pusher propellers set on the trailing edge. 4 windows provided him with a view, and small winglets provided stability on the water. The low-aspect-ratio wing was in 3 panels with large ailerons, and was supported on the struts based on special floats; it was entirely of metal construction without welding. The machine was tested around August 1913 at Bellevue on the Seine; the results are not known. (Span: 12 m; chord: 2.2 m; wing area: 26.5 sqm, Eiffel No 8 airfoil; length: 8.4 m; winglet span: 5.7 m; 60 hp watercooled engine).

3. Existed in proposal only: an all-steel 3-seater armored amphibian combat aircraft for the Navy. It featured an auxiliary 8 hp motor to power the radio, and to start the main engine.

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft29166.htm

 

[hesham]

From AFM 01 magazine,


who can ID this strange French aircraft as I think,there is two different pictures to it,maybe they are
the same but after modifications ?!.

 

[Stargazer]

I think we've had it before on the forum.

It is the 1912 Bédélia.

The firm Bedelia (B + D + lia) founded by Bourbeau and Devaux was known for its small 2-seater automobiles known as voiturettes. Although reported to have been working on flying boats since 1908, their first and only design appeared first at the 1912 Salon de la Locomotion Aérienne. It was ambitious and unsuccessful, a small-span all-steel biplane with a short wide teardrop-shaped hull of rectangular section, on top of which was mounted the biplane cellule. The 2 wings were supported on 4 vertical struts, almost side-curtains, with interplane ailerons, Curtiss-style, mounted behind the outermost struts. The large tailplane was mounted on 2 similar struts, with the rudder between them. A 4-cylinder uncowled 50 hp Clerget sat next to the pilot in the hull, driving an overhead shaft which ran between the upper wing and the tailplane, with the pusher propeller just forward of the tailplane leading edge. On occasion the Bedelia appeared fitted with wheels and 2 long skids reaching far ahead of the hull.
Bourbeau and Devaux founded a hydroplane center on the coast of Picardy, without much success; at the time, they modified the Bedelia with a tractor propeller, smaller struts without the side-curtains, twin tail-booms and twin rudders.

Text saved from the Flying Machines website.

 

[Maveric]

Thanks Skyblazer...
...this was my question long time ago!

 

[hesham]

Thank you Skyblazer,


but as you see the second picture differs a little from the first one,maybe some modifications.

 

[hesham]

From AFM 02,


here is anther unknown aircraft ?.

 

[richard]

A Pescara project :


(page 19)


http://fr.calameo.com/read/0001240572ae5a05fb9e5