Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers

[Grey Havoc]

From February of last year, regarding Lamantin and other proposals:

https://www.ruaviation.com/docs/4/2020/2/10/273/?h

 

[Nick Sumner]

The only other large-scale English-language listing seems to be the Globalsecurity one complied in the early 2000s but it has several errors in it. I had to trawl through a lot of Russian language sites to try and piece together bits, especially for the civilian ships.
The GDR system must have had labyrinthine levels of opacity for security reasons and it beats the hell out of me!

Nothing can beat Su-27 subvariants utter mess. NO-THING. My brain is bleeding just thinking about the whole thing.

Oh! I've got another one! Japanese engine designations 1935-1945.

 

[Erdosain]

Proyecto 85

MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.) | Статьи

Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум

militaryrussia.ru

Proyecto 1160 y 1153 Oryol

MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.) | Статьи

Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум

militaryrussia.ru

Proyecto 10200 "Khalzan"

MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.) | Статьи

Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум

militaryrussia.ru

Proyecto 11437 - KREMLIN

MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.) | Статьи

Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум

militaryrussia.ru

Proyecto 1178/11780 "Kherson"

MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.) | Статьи

Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум

militaryrussia.ru

 

[Erdosain]

Aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk - what would it be?​

Авианосец "Ульяновск" - каким бы он был?

«Сегодня самый счастливый день в моей жизни!» - были слова командующиего Тихоокеанским флотом Честера У. Нимица, получившего 25 октября 1944 года донесение о гибели японского тяжелого авианосца «Дзуйкаку» Лучшая похвала – похвала из уст врага Легендарная пара ударных авианосцев с поэтическими

topwar.ru

Soviet "Ulyanovsk" and American "Nimitz": nuclear, aircraft carriers, but why are they so different?​

Советский "Ульяновск" и американский "Нимиц": атомные, авианесущие, но почему же такие разные?

В этой статье мы продолжаем тему особенностей проекта АТАКР «Ульяновск». Авиагруппа проекта 1143.7 В предыдущем материале уже говорилось о принципиальной разнице во взглядах на роль палубной авиации в США и СССР. В Америке считалось, что эта авиация является главной силой, способной решить

topwar.ru

Atomic, heavy, aircraft-carrying. ATAKR project 1143.7 "Ulyanovsk"​

Атомный, тяжёлый, авианесущий. АТАКР проекта 1143.7 "Ульяновск"

Последние месяцы стали сравнительно урожайными на новости о перспективах и различных проектах перспективных российских авианосцев. При этом, что интересно, речь идет о совершенно разных кораблях: до недавнего времени всему миру гордо демонстрировалась модель авианосца проекта 23000 «Шторм»,

topwar.ru

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/oac98m

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/oac98m/3180_x_2145_admiral_kuznetsov_in_murmansk_for/

 

[Erdosain]

FSB raids shipyard in Murmansk

Security service officers take action against yard involved in the upgrade of Russia's only aircraft carrier.

thebarentsobserver.com

 

[Tzoli]

FSB? the successor of the KGB?

 

[Dilandu]

FSB? the successor of the KGB?

Yep.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Indeed, with regards as to domestic security and counterintelligence, though until recently at least foreign intelligence operations had been split off into the SVR RF. Rumour has it they may be about to be merged back together.

 

[alejandrogrossi]

Hi
To all
I find this image (said Proyect 1143.5)
searching inthe web, said it was the origen of the Kuztnetsov
It´s that right?

 

[gollevainen]

Yeah its the early concept of the 5th carrier before they changed it to mainly VSTOL operation and deleted the catapults and added the ski-jump. It somewhat a transitional design between 1153 and the existing design of the project 11435.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Also IIRC, a hull of that design was laid down, but due to a change in Ministers of Defence it was ultimately completed as a floating nuclear power station.

Never mind, I was thinking of a related nuclear powered design!

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/oe5lbk

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/oe5lbk/history_of_black_sea_shipyard_officialy_has_ended/

 

[Archibald]

Damn. Another casualty in the Ukrainian crisis.

The picture above is worth a pile of gold - is that Varyag (sorry, I mean Liaoning ) and Kuznetsov side by side ?

 

[Kugelblitz]

Damn. Another casualty in the Ukrainian crisis.

The picture above is worth a pile of gold - is that Varyag (sorry, I mean Liaoning ) and Kuznetsov side by side ?

Yes

 

[TR1]

Damn. Another casualty in the Ukrainian crisis.

The picture above is worth a pile of gold - is that Varyag (sorry, I mean Liaoning ) and Kuznetsov side by side ?

It would have died without the Donbass War anyways.

 

[Archibald]

If you say so... is it because Ukraine inherited a massive infrastructure from USSR it was not able to fully use and financially support ? the ukrainian navy is not the russian navy... which already had immense problems in the 90's and 2000's. It is a bit similar for aeronautics ( An-225) and space ( Zenit) btw, although exports are a little easier there than for large warships.

 

[TR1]

We can just look at how many orders they got post independence, barely anything especially after the 90s. Some repair work...same thing happened with most Ukrainian or Russian yards that did not successfully get civilian work or interest Western investors. The latter at least got enough crumbs from the government or were absorbed by United Shipbuilding Corp and recapitalized with mixed results.

They were on life support for years and doing small orders not worthy of their infrastructure upkeep. It was down to 2k workers from ~40k by 2005. Same thing with Nikolayev, being sold off for scrap basically, quite sad. Okean survived with enough civie orders in the last two decades. Zaliv actually made some big vessels when it was controlled by a Dutch concern, although AFAIK after that ended and it was acquired by Russian/Ukrainian businessmen it again floundered. Now of course it is getting Russian navy/gov orders.

 

[World B4]

Also IIRC, a hull of that design was laid down, but due to a change in Ministers of Defence it was ultimately completed as a floating nuclear power station.

Never mind, I was thinking of a related nuclear powered design!

What is this?

 

[Grey Havoc]

I had thought Project 1143 was the abortive nuclear powered carrier project that ended up as a floating power station, but it looks like I was wrong; Leastways I don't think the design I was thinking of was a nuclear-conventional hybrid like some other Soviet designs of the 1970s and 1980s, though it is possible that I am wrong there.

 

[kaiserbill]

The SSV-33 Ural C&C ship was built in Leningrad, and was nuclear powered and based on the Kirov cruiser, including its nuclear propulsion system.

Soviet communications ship SSV-33 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There was an equally large nuclear powered cargo ship called Sevmorput built in the Ukraine back when it was in the USSR, but that wasn't built in the yard (Nikolayev/Black Sea Shipyard) that built the Soviet carriers.
That was built in Zaliv, Kerch, which is now in Russia. (Crimea).

Sevmorput - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You get a flavour of the large shipyards in that part of the Soviet Union, but the facilities now in Ukraine are almost defunct/inoperable.
In contrast, Russia has invested in Zaliv, which is building their 2 large amphibious warfare vessels/helicopter carriers.

I always found the Soviet shipbuilding facilities in the area to be interesting, particularly in light of building aviation ships and the Bosporus Strait.

 

[Archamus33]

I always found the Soviet shipbuilding facilities in the area to be interesting, particularly in light of building aviation ships and the Bosporus Strait.

Soviet shipbuilding is frequently most interesting in its contrasts to its western counterparts. The completely black military budgets of the USSR meant they could throw resources at technological dead-ends like the Mike class subs or build massive one-offs like the SSV-33 with basically no public knowledge or disagreement. As a student of US shipbuilding, that's fascinating to me.

 

[Rubick]

In what way was the Project-685 a dead end ? It served as a R&D basis for future subs. Pretty much like Sierra and the R&D done on it that went into Akula class

 

[Grey Havoc]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/olps4b

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/olps4b/admiral_kuznetsovs_su25utg_trainer_riding_the/

 

[Archamus33]

In what way was the Project-685 a dead end ? It served as a R&D basis for future subs. Pretty much like Sierra and the R&D done on it that went into Akula class

Well, first of all, I got it wrong, I meant the Papa. My point was going to be that pursuing the extremes of performance, like both boats did, is overall less useful than something more well-rounded, like the Sierras and Akulas. Yes, the data the boats will give you will likely be useful in future projects, but the extremes of the performance spectrum are not usually where you want to peg the standards of your fleet, as the cost will be too high for too little gain.

 

[Antonio]

Moderator's note:

Papa, Sierra and Akula....? We're going off-topic here. This is a thread for unbuilt Soviet and Russian carrier projects

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/olps4b

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/olps4b/admiral_kuznetsovs_su25utg_trainer_riding_the/

Never saw such a sight. Interesting.

 

[that_person]

Google Translate

 

[Pioneer]

The SSV-33 Ural C&C ship was built in Leningrad, and was nuclear powered and based on the Kirov cruiser, including its nuclear propulsion system.

Wow, learn something every day!

Thanks kaiserbill

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Tzoli]

If I remember correctly with a discussion of my Russo-Dutch friend, the only connection is the Nuclear Reactor, the hull was different and has no connection with the Kirovs!

 

[Dilandu]

Hm, would the "Kommuna" count?



Towed seaplane-carrying barge, used as mobile air base on Volga river during Civil War. Was rebuild from oil tanker barge, equipped with ramps for seaplanes. Usually carried nine planes; six M-9 flying boats, and three Newport wheeled fighters (they could only take off from her). Operated against White forces on Volga with quite a sucsess.

 

[Hood]

A low freeboard carrier? I think it would count, you could classify as a flying boat/seaplane tender I suppose but given this was the early days of pioneering naval aviation, I would class this as an aircraft carrier.

 

[Tzoli]

More like a floating airfield (A carrier is a floating airbase)

 

[Erdosain]

Google Translate

What is the denomination or name of this aircraft carrier?

Would this aircraft carrier become the second vessel in Project 1143 Modified Krechyet Class (BAKU Class for NATO)?
That is the fifth of the Kiev class.

If I remember correctly, Admiral Gorshkov was Project 1143.4 so this aircraft carrier equipped with Ski Jump and Yak-41 would be Project 1143.42?

Best regards

 

[Tzoli]

Google Translate

What is the denomination or name of this aircraft carrier?

Would this aircraft carrier become the second vessel in Project 1143 Modified Krechyet Class (BAKU Class for NATO)?
That is the fifth of the Kiev class.

If I remember correctly, Admiral Gorshkov was Project 1143.4 so this aircraft carrier equipped with Ski Jump and Yak-41 would be Project 1143.42?

Best regards

No Russian Project numbers don't go to the second fraction number.
See their numbering:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/russian-and-soviet-aircraft-carriers.1948/page-7#post-449730

It would be like 1143.4M M for Modernizirovanniy (Modernized)
E for Eksport if it was for Export
or B for Bis (Modified)

 

[that_person]

Google Translate

What is the denomination or name of this aircraft carrier?

Would this aircraft carrier become the second vessel in Project 1143 Modified Krechyet Class (BAKU Class for NATO)?
That is the fifth of the Kiev class.

If I remember correctly, Admiral Gorshkov was Project 1143.4 so this aircraft carrier equipped with Ski Jump and Yak-41 would be Project 1143.42?

Best regards

I have no clue what it’s name was, but seeing as it has several Yak-141s on deck, it’s probably from the late 80s or early 90s. Also, I am thoroughly convinced this is a modernized Kiev.

 

[Erdosain]

Google Translate

What is the denomination or name of this aircraft carrier?

Would this aircraft carrier become the second vessel in Project 1143 Modified Krechyet Class (BAKU Class for NATO)?
That is the fifth of the Kiev class.

If I remember correctly, Admiral Gorshkov was Project 1143.4 so this aircraft carrier equipped with Ski Jump and Yak-41 would be Project 1143.42?

Best regards

No Russian Project numbers don't go to the second fraction number.
See their numbering:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/russian-and-soviet-aircraft-carriers.1948/page-7#post-449730

It would be like 1143.4M M for Modernizirovanniy (Modernized)
E for Eksport if it was for Export
or B for Bis (Modified)

Yes, but on this Russian website it appears as Project 1143.42 - development of the "Baku" Class with the possibility of basing conventional aircraft in addition to VTOL aircraft

Баку (1982) — Global wiki. Wargaming.net

wiki.wargaming.net

 

[that_person]

Google Translate

What is the denomination or name of this aircraft carrier?

Would this aircraft carrier become the second vessel in Project 1143 Modified Krechyet Class (BAKU Class for NATO)?
That is the fifth of the Kiev class.

If I remember correctly, Admiral Gorshkov was Project 1143.4 so this aircraft carrier equipped with Ski Jump and Yak-41 would be Project 1143.42?

Best regards

No Russian Project numbers don't go to the second fraction number.
See their numbering:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/russian-and-soviet-aircraft-carriers.1948/page-7#post-449730

It would be like 1143.4M M for Modernizirovanniy (Modernized)
E for Eksport if it was for Export
or B for Bis (Modified)

Yes, but on this Russian website it appears as Project 1143.42 - development of the "Baku" Class with the possibility of basing conventional aircraft in addition to VTOL aircraft

Баку (1982) — Global wiki. Wargaming.net

wiki.wargaming.net

View attachment 664718

The Yak-141s on the deck point to it being a much later project then the Baku.

 

[EwenS]

Much later?

Baku was under construction from 1978, finally commissioning in Dec 1987.

Yak 41M/141 development began around 1975 and the first flight was in March 1987 and development ran on until the early 1990s.

So it seems to me that they are very much of the same era.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Yes, but on this Russian website it appears as Project 1143.42 - development of the "Baku" Class with the possibility of basing conventional aircraft in addition to VTOL aircraft

Баку (1982) — Global wiki. Wargaming.net

wiki.wargaming.net

View attachment 664718

Could this project have led to the Kuznetsov? Is it possible that these plans were sold to India?