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can anyone make out what those 3 black aircraft are? i guess the blue ones are mig-29Ks
Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
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Sorry, I was unclear in my post - have added a question mark besides catapults to make it clear.
observer144
Just observing
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Is it really a concern that the launch and landing areas obstruct? Look at the waist catapults on the US carriers or even the forward launch area on the CdG. I don't think the current operating cycles on those carriers have concurrent launch and landing operations (even if using only the bow cats).
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The forward part of the island appears to have a similar shape to the Ulstein 'X-Bow' concept :-
X-BOW®
The ULSTEIN X-BOW®, the inverted bow concept, redefined marine engineering. The bow concept was launched in 2005, together with the first shipbuilding…
ulstein.com
maybe to mitigate precisely this . . .
cheers,
Robin.
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A probable Yak-130 naval trainer?
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I know it's already been posted here but, here's a different article about the Varan
ukdefencejournal.org.uk
Russia unveils yet another aircraft carrier design
'Varan' has a displacement of 45,000 and would be able to carry 24 fixed-wing aircraft, 6 helicopters and 'up to 20' unmanned aerial vehicles.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk
Firefinder
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Dont see why not.
The Mearsk B class container ships can hit 36 knots fully loaded with over 4k teus onboard and cruise around at 29 knots with her diesel plants.
The power is there, but turbines are better at weight to power and maintainablity.
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wow this guy took a lot of money
thebarentsobserver.com
Unfortunately this corruption case just strengthens this earlier Jamestown report about shipyard corruption being a major barrier in the construction of a new carrier
jamestown.org
Shipyard director arrested in aircraft carrier fraud case
The director of Shipyard No. 10 in Polyarny was arrested on March 18 under suspicion of the theft of 45 million rubles allocated to the repair of the Northern Fleet's aircraft carrier 'Admiral Kuznetsov'.
thebarentsobserver.com
Unfortunately this corruption case just strengthens this earlier Jamestown report about shipyard corruption being a major barrier in the construction of a new carrier
Moscow’s Plans for New Kind of Aircraft Carrier Unlikely to Be Realized
In late February, TASS reported that Russian designers have come up with “a new class of ship.” The vessel, nicknamed the Varan, will function as an aircraft carrier as well as perform other duties, be small enough to not require the renovation of Russian shipyards to build, cost far less than a...
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That 2nd article is riddled with various "assumptions" that are then used to arrive at immutable conclusions sought by the author, if we are being generous. But this is by design, not accident.
It's not useful quoting sources like Jamestown.org if you want a true, balanced picture of what's going on.. problems as well as successes.
Jamestown has a remit to fulfill.
Who funded the Foundation during setup, the language used in the article, as well as a perusal of the website really should give you a clue what that remit is.
It's not useful quoting sources like Jamestown.org if you want a true, balanced picture of what's going on.. problems as well as successes.
Jamestown has a remit to fulfill.
Who funded the Foundation during setup, the language used in the article, as well as a perusal of the website really should give you a clue what that remit is.
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Kat Tsun
eeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Yes, the article is too optimistic. There's plenty of room for axe grinding against the Russian MOD, but I'm not seeing it there. Russian yards becoming boutique submarine shops is a very real "threat" to the Russian shipbuilding industry, especially if the economy integrates more with the PRC. The PRC has trouble making good subs, the Russians have trouble making good surface ships, and Germany and Korea can potentially supply them both with machine tools and random ancillary components (turbines, diesels, pumps). They're all a natural fit for a unified Eurasian shipbuilding economy over the coming decades because they play off each others' specific weaknesses very well.
That said the Russian MOD talking about things it will not be able to do is nothing new, though.
Any new large surface combatants are probably going to be brushed aside in favor of supporting the shrinking submarine fleet. There's no reason for Russia to buy an aircraft carrier if it can't afford all the subs it thinks it needs, because the point of the carrier is to provide aviation outside, or at the margins of, the range of land based airfields.
Poseidon and Belogorod are the Russian Navy's real jewels at the moment.
After that I suppose the MOD's focused on improving the air forces with new Su-35s, getting a couple dozen T-50s flying to make NATO quiver in fear, and trying to make the strategic nuclear forces less crummy looking. In order from least to most important. Fixed wing carriers really aren't even on the Russian radar anymore with the all-but-admitted cancellation of Lider and no serious plans for a large fleet carrier. Maybe they'll get a LPD if they're lucky but that seems unlikely, since any funding is going to be needed for submarine production, as the strategic missile forces are eating the surface forces budget (both for the Navy and in general), and VDV/Wagner Group seem to be getting all the "door kicker" expeditionary jobs recently.
Currently it looks like the future of the Russian naval aviation is flying from the increasing creaky Kuznetsov, and most naval surface shipyard efforts going to ripping out bits of Kuzzles and making him less creaky. Russia needs an external backer, ultimately, to get any new major surface ships. Like France. Or Turkey.You can check back around 5 to 10 years from now to see if that changes substantially, but I doubt it will. Focus will still be around developing the Arctic bastions with a localized, nuclear powered SOSUS, increasing range of SSBN's atomic missiles so they don't have to leave the bastions at all (ideally) and wander beyond the range of land based aviation, and production of offensive anti-carrier task force weapons like Zircon and Poseidon for the VMF air force and undersea fleet.
Carriers will still be talked about but it's mostly just talk until one actually floats, flies jets, and outlives Kuznetsov in service. And despite memes about the "rusty Russian Navy", by any real metric I'd suspect Kuznetsov still has a couple decades of life (if not more) left in her. USS Harry Truman, a ship of similar vintage, almost certainly won't be vanishing in the next 5 to 10 years and is about as old as Kuznetsov. So I'd expect the Russian Navy to not seriously consider, nor need, a new fleet carrier until the 2040's.
A really big brained move (in terms of actually fighting other navies) would be to confine Kuznetsov to port for continual maintenance and readiness until she sorties to generate air power at the edge of land based aviation's range, like how the old sub fleet was kept as a fleet-in-being ready to go in Soviet times. But that would be limiting her to an actual design role and not shoehorning her into playing political hockey by sailing around carrying the Russian flag. I think it could go either way: Kuznetsov either becomes a hangar queen that can fight if needed, or becomes the Charles de Gaulle.
That said the ship is barely 25 years old so she's got some life left and the Russians have time to decide if they're going to build a new ship (unlikely) or do something like buy a Chinese Type 002 (more likely) in 20 years. However, the fact is that the only thing Russia "needs" is a new drydock and lots of new electrical cabling to overhaul Kuznetsov for another mid-life upgrade.
That said the Russian MOD talking about things it will not be able to do is nothing new, though.
Any new large surface combatants are probably going to be brushed aside in favor of supporting the shrinking submarine fleet. There's no reason for Russia to buy an aircraft carrier if it can't afford all the subs it thinks it needs, because the point of the carrier is to provide aviation outside, or at the margins of, the range of land based airfields.
Poseidon and Belogorod are the Russian Navy's real jewels at the moment.
After that I suppose the MOD's focused on improving the air forces with new Su-35s, getting a couple dozen T-50s flying to make NATO quiver in fear, and trying to make the strategic nuclear forces less crummy looking. In order from least to most important. Fixed wing carriers really aren't even on the Russian radar anymore with the all-but-admitted cancellation of Lider and no serious plans for a large fleet carrier. Maybe they'll get a LPD if they're lucky but that seems unlikely, since any funding is going to be needed for submarine production, as the strategic missile forces are eating the surface forces budget (both for the Navy and in general), and VDV/Wagner Group seem to be getting all the "door kicker" expeditionary jobs recently.
Currently it looks like the future of the Russian naval aviation is flying from the increasing creaky Kuznetsov, and most naval surface shipyard efforts going to ripping out bits of Kuzzles and making him less creaky. Russia needs an external backer, ultimately, to get any new major surface ships. Like France. Or Turkey.You can check back around 5 to 10 years from now to see if that changes substantially, but I doubt it will. Focus will still be around developing the Arctic bastions with a localized, nuclear powered SOSUS, increasing range of SSBN's atomic missiles so they don't have to leave the bastions at all (ideally) and wander beyond the range of land based aviation, and production of offensive anti-carrier task force weapons like Zircon and Poseidon for the VMF air force and undersea fleet.
Carriers will still be talked about but it's mostly just talk until one actually floats, flies jets, and outlives Kuznetsov in service. And despite memes about the "rusty Russian Navy", by any real metric I'd suspect Kuznetsov still has a couple decades of life (if not more) left in her. USS Harry Truman, a ship of similar vintage, almost certainly won't be vanishing in the next 5 to 10 years and is about as old as Kuznetsov. So I'd expect the Russian Navy to not seriously consider, nor need, a new fleet carrier until the 2040's.
A really big brained move (in terms of actually fighting other navies) would be to confine Kuznetsov to port for continual maintenance and readiness until she sorties to generate air power at the edge of land based aviation's range, like how the old sub fleet was kept as a fleet-in-being ready to go in Soviet times. But that would be limiting her to an actual design role and not shoehorning her into playing political hockey by sailing around carrying the Russian flag. I think it could go either way: Kuznetsov either becomes a hangar queen that can fight if needed, or becomes the Charles de Gaulle.
That said the ship is barely 25 years old so she's got some life left and the Russians have time to decide if they're going to build a new ship (unlikely) or do something like buy a Chinese Type 002 (more likely) in 20 years. However, the fact is that the only thing Russia "needs" is a new drydock and lots of new electrical cabling to overhaul Kuznetsov for another mid-life upgrade.
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The Soviet Union sensibly focussed on systems designed to kill or disable US carriers. The combination of long range aircraft and nuclear submarines would have achieved this in many cases.
Neither Russia nor China have so far been able to replicate the resources available to the old USSR in 1988.
China has a long way to go before it can deploy Akulas and Oscars and Backfires in any quantity. Poor Mr Putin can only hope to keep those he has left a bit longer.
Neither Russia nor China have so far been able to replicate the resources available to the old USSR in 1988.
China has a long way to go before it can deploy Akulas and Oscars and Backfires in any quantity. Poor Mr Putin can only hope to keep those he has left a bit longer.
Kat Tsun
eeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Yes, you're correct the Chinese and Russians have not replicated the resources of the USSR. It isn't clear why they would when these are obsolete.
Considering Russia is investing in long range cruise torpedoes for killing carriers, it seems unlikely it will need a carrier besides "showing the flag". Hence the Charles de Gaulle comparison. Yasen looks to be on track to replace all dozen or so Akulas, plus or minus a couple, while the three or four Belogorods will become the premier anti-carrier boats of the Northern and Pacific fleets. Boreis will replace the Delta IVs and who cares what happens to the Typhoons I guess. The rest of the Russian Navy will be a glorified coast guard of a dozen or so frigates, a handful of air defense and anti-sub ships al a Sovremenny/Udaloy, and Kuznetsov.
New surface ships in the Russian Navy are going to shrink continually and the only large ones will be Soviet era vessels like Kuznetsov. There's not really a need when Russian boats aren't operating outside of Russian oceans i.e. the Baltic, Black Sea, and Barents and White Seas. These are well within land based aviation like T-50 and so the need for the carrier becomes one of symbolism rather than actual utility. Hence the Admiral Gorshkovs are extremely cramped, tiny, and short legged but have fairly impressive strike capabilities for punting cruise missiles at ISIS towns in Syria or whatever. Whatever comes of the Mistral domestic replacement will probably equally be short legged and cramped, since its only intended for small hops across tiny puddles rather than spanning big trans-oceanic gaps. Assuming it ever gets built. AIUI the Priboy is supposed to be something around 15,000 or 25,000 tons (depending on who you ask and what time of day it is, as there's no particular reason to correct press reports that are being read by foreign intelligence agencies) or so based on the Krylov and Nevsky models shown around a few years ago.
China is veering off topic in a thread about Kuznetsov, though, but the Russians buying a Chinese carrier to replace the Kuznetsov is a possibility in the far future, albeit a distant one. They've shown they can't make a major surface warship without outside help. They'd probably prefer to buy French or German, though, at the end of the day. Submarines OTOH are fine-ish for Russia as of now, and they recently laid down a new Yasen, so they seem to be keeping a reasonable schedule.
Considering Russia is investing in long range cruise torpedoes for killing carriers, it seems unlikely it will need a carrier besides "showing the flag". Hence the Charles de Gaulle comparison. Yasen looks to be on track to replace all dozen or so Akulas, plus or minus a couple, while the three or four Belogorods will become the premier anti-carrier boats of the Northern and Pacific fleets. Boreis will replace the Delta IVs and who cares what happens to the Typhoons I guess. The rest of the Russian Navy will be a glorified coast guard of a dozen or so frigates, a handful of air defense and anti-sub ships al a Sovremenny/Udaloy, and Kuznetsov.
New surface ships in the Russian Navy are going to shrink continually and the only large ones will be Soviet era vessels like Kuznetsov. There's not really a need when Russian boats aren't operating outside of Russian oceans i.e. the Baltic, Black Sea, and Barents and White Seas. These are well within land based aviation like T-50 and so the need for the carrier becomes one of symbolism rather than actual utility. Hence the Admiral Gorshkovs are extremely cramped, tiny, and short legged but have fairly impressive strike capabilities for punting cruise missiles at ISIS towns in Syria or whatever. Whatever comes of the Mistral domestic replacement will probably equally be short legged and cramped, since its only intended for small hops across tiny puddles rather than spanning big trans-oceanic gaps. Assuming it ever gets built. AIUI the Priboy is supposed to be something around 15,000 or 25,000 tons (depending on who you ask and what time of day it is, as there's no particular reason to correct press reports that are being read by foreign intelligence agencies) or so based on the Krylov and Nevsky models shown around a few years ago.
China is veering off topic in a thread about Kuznetsov, though, but the Russians buying a Chinese carrier to replace the Kuznetsov is a possibility in the far future, albeit a distant one. They've shown they can't make a major surface warship without outside help. They'd probably prefer to buy French or German, though, at the end of the day. Submarines OTOH are fine-ish for Russia as of now, and they recently laid down a new Yasen, so they seem to be keeping a reasonable schedule.
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Lider wasn't really dropped- Severnoye Design Bureau just reported the MOD did not order anything after the draft design was completed in 2016.
Project 23560 was not seriously planned until late next decade anyways, a lot can and will change by then.
For one, Zvezda will be up and running, and the Severnaya Wharf reconstruction will actually be complete after the current snafu is cleaned up.
Domestic turbines for 22350 sized ships are only now being mounted on Golovko, production needs to scale up, then M90FR will be developed into the engines for the 22350M. I am very curious what engines are planned for 23900, but I have a feeling the engine makers will have plenty of time to figure that question out.
I am sure something bigger than 22350M will be built, but if it will be "just" 1164 cruiser sized or actually huge is a good question.
Project 23560 was not seriously planned until late next decade anyways, a lot can and will change by then.
For one, Zvezda will be up and running, and the Severnaya Wharf reconstruction will actually be complete after the current snafu is cleaned up.
Domestic turbines for 22350 sized ships are only now being mounted on Golovko, production needs to scale up, then M90FR will be developed into the engines for the 22350M. I am very curious what engines are planned for 23900, but I have a feeling the engine makers will have plenty of time to figure that question out.
I am sure something bigger than 22350M will be built, but if it will be "just" 1164 cruiser sized or actually huge is a good question.
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The Lider / Shkval story to date is a bit messy. All work on the 'original' Lider design seems to have been suspended in April of 2020, with design work on the Shkval reportedly still ongoing.
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tequilashooter
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Run down on what operational dates/ cancellation, etc?
tequilashooter
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I definitely want the Varan because of appearance wise, it will also go well with the aesthetics of using VTOL drones probably in development like the fregat drones because of size.
Nordstream 2 and arctic projects might boost their economy to get bigger aircraft carriers, but currently I dont see that option.
Nordstream 2 and arctic projects might boost their economy to get bigger aircraft carriers, but currently I dont see that option.
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In an ideal world some of these wonderful looking Russian designs would be getting built to serve a proud and free country working with friends and allies overseas. Always enjoy the "very Russian" (see the film "Red Heat") approach to military kit.
I shall never forget seeing a red, blue and white Su27 perform Pugachev's Cobra on a sunny day at Biggin Hill.
I shall never forget seeing a red, blue and white Su27 perform Pugachev's Cobra on a sunny day at Biggin Hill.
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Some links for your Russian carrier projects enjoyment:
charly015.blogspot.com
armasrusasb.blogspot.com
armasrusasb.blogspot.com
Moderator note:
Please, remember that sources citation can be a gesture of recognition for those talented people who, generously share their creations with us, for free.
Nuevo buque para todo desde la oficina Nevskoe
 Noticias Armada Rusa Unos dÃas atrás los medios rusos nos mostraron un nuevo proyecto naval de la oficina de diseño Nevskoe... ÐевÑкое ÐÐÐ ...
charly015.blogspot.com
Prometedor Portaaviones Proyecto 11430E Lamantin
Tipo: Portaviones Multipropósito (MTAA) Unidades: 1 unidad prevista si el proyecto es elegido según el Ministerio de Defensa de Rusia...
armasrusasb.blogspot.com
Proyecto 23000E Shtorm
Tipo: Portaviones Multipropósito (MTAA) Unidades: 1 unidad prevista si el proyecto es elegido según el Ministerio de Defensa ...
armasrusasb.blogspot.com
Moderator note:
Please, remember that sources citation can be a gesture of recognition for those talented people who, generously share their creations with us, for free.
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As a complement to the links in post #269
Military Russia contents on USSR and Russia aircraft carrier projects
militaryrussia.ru
I also found this link about the Pr 1123 Kondor.
militaryrussia.ru
Military Russia contents on USSR and Russia aircraft carrier projects
MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.) | Статьи
Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум
I also found this link about the Pr 1123 Kondor.
пр.1123 Кондор - MOSKVA | MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.)
Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум
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^ is it just me or is Varan or 11435 looking like the most realistic option?
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Could be.
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11435 ( or 1143.5) should be Kuznetsov herself!
to my knowledge the 1143 series consist of:
Project 1143.1 (1970): Kiev class carrier
Project 1143.2 (1972): Modified Kiev class carrier Minsk
Project 1143.3 (1975): Improved Kiev class carrier Novorossiysk
Project 1143.4 (1978): Kiev Mod class carrier Baku
Project 1143.5 (1982): Admiral Kuznetsov class carrier
Project 1143.5M (???): Modernized Admiral Kuznetsov class carrier
Project 1143.6 (1985): Modified Admiral Kuznetsov class carrier Varyag
Project 1143.7 (1988): Ulyanovsk class nuclear-powered carrier
to my knowledge the 1143 series consist of:
Project 1143.1 (1970): Kiev class carrier
Project 1143.2 (1972): Modified Kiev class carrier Minsk
Project 1143.3 (1975): Improved Kiev class carrier Novorossiysk
Project 1143.4 (1978): Kiev Mod class carrier Baku
Project 1143.5 (1982): Admiral Kuznetsov class carrier
Project 1143.5M (???): Modernized Admiral Kuznetsov class carrier
Project 1143.6 (1985): Modified Admiral Kuznetsov class carrier Varyag
Project 1143.7 (1988): Ulyanovsk class nuclear-powered carrier
Dilandu
I'm dissatisfied, which means, I exist.
Yeah, our project numeration is sometimes... annoying.
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It does not helps either that many civilan ships had such project numbers as well and from time to time the same number was allocated for a warship class and say a riverine passenger ship "class".
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Indeed.
Some years ago myself too collected a large number of such designations but I'm not sure if I've posted them here as well..
Soviet/Russian Warship project numbers
Like other navies the Soviets too used some sort of system to designate the various ship classes, sub classes, proposals, designs and refits. But the numbaring isnt consistent with the years the particular ship designed as someone would think. There are numbers which designate ships for later yea...
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The only other large-scale English-language listing seems to be the Globalsecurity one complied in the early 2000s but it has several errors in it. I had to trawl through a lot of Russian language sites to try and piece together bits, especially for the civilian ships.
The GDR system must have had labyrinthine levels of opacity for security reasons and it beats the hell out of me!
The GDR system must have had labyrinthine levels of opacity for security reasons and it beats the hell out of me!
Erdosain
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Aircraft carrier of Project 1160 Orel (1969)
Авианосец проекта 1160 Орел — Global wiki. Wargaming.net
Project 1153 Orel (1976)
Авианосец проекта 1153 (1977) — история разработки, характеристики
Атомный авианосец проекта 1153 Орёл (1977 год) — история проектирования советского атомного корабля, технические характеристики, авиагруппа, вооружение и внешний вид (фото, рисунки). Подробная информация о кораблях на wiki.wargaming.net
Project 1143.7 Ulyanovsk (1988)
Авианосец Ульяновск (1988) — Global wiki. Wargaming.net
Авианосец Ульяновск (1988) — история создания советского атомного корабля, технические характеристики, вооружение и фото. Подробная информация о кораблях на wiki.wargaming.net
World B4
my bad y'all
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USSR Carriers / Carriers of the Soviet Union up till 1949
Russian and USSR Aircraft Carrier Design Studies from 1900 till 1949 It goes without saying that WOWS will see several of the USSR Aircraft Carrier design studies introduced into the game, probably around May in either 2021 or 2022. This topic presents an overview of what little reliable data is ...
I would like to know more if possible about the Kirov icebreaking carrier design from 1936, in regards to it's authenticity to be sure it's real, and if it is, the doctrinal thinking behind it. I think it's a fun idea, an icebreaking ship that carries a handful of aircraft like Ye Olde Stalinist Shirase
Edit: it's between a quarter and a third of the way down the page
World B4
my bad y'all
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Nah the dimensions and hull form are way too different. Also, I really can't imagine them basing a design for an icebreaking pocket carrier off a fast cruiser hull, as opposed to actual icebreaker hull designs.
Nothing can beat Su-27 subvariants utter mess. NO-THING. My brain is bleeding just thinking about the whole thing.
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German aero engine projects 1933 to 1945?
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Russian MoD Calls for Accelerating Repairs to Aircraft Carrier's Dock - Naval News
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu called to accelerate the overhaul and upgrade of the dry dock of the 35th Shipyard in Murmansk...www.navalnews.com
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Here is it!
Sukhoi's new light fighter:
- VLO design
- single engine w TVC
- supermanouverability
- TOW < 18 t
- max. speed > 2M
...
According to previous info it will be a optionally manned machine. Eventually with VC/3S version of Izd. 30 development... Russia's sixth generation ligth? WOW!
Источник: Ростех создает однодвигательный легкий сверхзвуковой истребитель-"невидимку"
Самолет будет развивать максимальную скорость полета более 2 маховwww.google.com
So what happens to the MiG light fighter? Or with they be involved in a fly off against each other?
Who knows. But it is likely that MiG is waiting with LMFS for new opportunities. By the way, there are currently interesting discussions in Russia, when the existence of a new deck fighter project is necessary for the building of the new aircraft carrier. MiG works with twin-engine concepts and has gained vast experience with the K/KUB...
ВЗГЛЯД.РУ - В ВПК назвали сроки строительства российского авианосца
Новый российский авианосец можно будет построить за десять лет, если будут готовы завод и палубный истребитель, сообщил член коллегии Военно-промышленной комиссии России, член Морской коллегии при правительстве Владимир Поспелов.www.google.com
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