Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[TomcatViP]

At the distance reported, it could have been anything but a stealth F-35. This report is not simply dubious. It's ridiculous.

 

[snne]

At the distance reported, it could have been anything but a stealth F-35. This report is not simply dubious. It's ridiculous.

 

[Forest Green]

View attachment 748528

Indeed, from several hundred km away under israeli EW they detected a stealth fighter? With such a sophisticated system, it's a wonder any targets got destroyed, especially around Tehran itself. They likely detected a spoofed image of an F-15 about to launch ALBMs at them.

What's also noteworthy is that the F-35 isn't an F-117 in that it does have advanced ESM and it will see and categorise the radar long before the radar sees it, the display then shows the effective range of that radar against their current config. so that they can fly around it, or destroy it depending on the mission.

 

[Ozair]

Indeed, from several hundred km away under israeli EW they detected a stealth fighter? With such a sophisticated system, it's a wonder any targets got destroyed, especially around Tehran itself. They likely detected a spoofed image of an F-15 about to launch ALBMs at them.

What's also noteworthy is that the F-35 isn't an F-117 in that it does have advanced ESM and it will see and categorise the radar long before the radar sees it, the display then shows the effective range of that radar against their current config. so that they can fly around it, or destroy it depending on the mission.

As far as I ascertain the F-35I is not certified for the Israeli ALBMs so in that case they are flying in country and deploying the standard set of weapons on their assigned targets. Makes sense, give the F-15s the long range targets suitable for ALBMs and cruise missiles and let the F-35s go after the others with PGMs.

 

[Deltafan]

Beyond the possible bad faith of not having acquired the F-35, were the people in the audience aware of all of these restrictions (which, in my opinion, also depend on the degree of involvement in the program and the level of alliance with the USA).

Former president of Türkiye's #defense acquisitions agency SSB on (...) #F35 preconditions:

-Paying huge sums for the F35 isn't the problem, it's the utter dependence on the US that creates.
-We couldn't fly our jets in 1974 because the US refused to provide their spare tires! Even the tiniest sanctions can have huge impacts.
-F-35 requires regular code updates and a unique password just to turn on, that is provided to customers by the US daily. What if they stop giving it to you?
-US completely oversees and remotely controls your entire F-35 supply chain. What you need, when you need it, how many, you don't tell them, they tell you. And you have to pay to get it.
-An F-35 engine overhaul center was going to be set up in Türkiye. But Americans said there would be a restricted section within it that would only employ US staff and be off limits to Turkish staff. What kind of partnership is this?
-No technical access to the hot sections of the engines whatsoever.
-No access to US-provided avionics or source codes.
-Even the old RAM paint that gets scraped off before repainting the aircraft gets shipped back to the US, to keep us from reverse-engineering the chemicals.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854875863948366288

View: https://x.com/TurkishCentury/status/1854875863948366288

 

[TomcatViP]

Amazing how people do forgot so fast that it´s a transformational aircraft: there are countries with people dying in trenches, collecting their citizen body parts from Missiles attacks... and those that can zip through a bully airspace without a single loss waging near Biblical havoc.

Yeah Türkyiye, make your own educated choice.

 

[Josh_TN]

Amazing how people do forgot so fast that it´s a transformational aircraft: there are countries with people dying in trenches, collecting their citizen body parts from Missiles attacks... and those that can zip through a bully airspace without a single loss waging near Biblical havoc.

Yeah Türkyiye, make your own educated choice.

Türkyiye Is under no threat that requires the F-35. I can easily see a justification for relying on more independent technology, regardless of what one thinks of the current government.

 

[snne]

Türkyiye Is under no threat that requires the F-35. I can easily see a justification for relying on more independent technology, regardless of what one thinks of the current government.

Well if Turkey had brought the jets back home, the biggest benefit they'd bring is;

1_) For TAI to be able to inspect the whole aircraft they've built important components for, so that they can get a better understanding of "what makes a 5th gen, a 5th gen?"

Meaning: Being able to throughly inspect the whole aircraft and being an important industrial partner of the program are not the same thing.

2_) what tactics to employ against enemy low observable aircraft (F-35 in particular, some of its users are quite antagonistic towards Turkey).

At the end of the day,, Turkish institutes still managed to learn how to design and build a fifth gen thanks to their contributions to the JSF program, but they'd have gotten a better understanding of their capabilities and doctrinal usage if both TAI and TurAF had been able to use and inspect it.

3_) Kaan wouldn't have become a heavy strike aircraft at the last moment to cover both it's original intended role and F-35's role; instead it'd have stayed as a nimble, J-35A- and KF-21B3-class air supremacy fighter.

@TomcatViP Mind you, TurAF chose to be a part of the JSF program, those 6 built-and-delivered F-35s had already been inducted by the time Turkey got kicked out and technically, they still belong to the TurAF; US is just not letting them fly to Turkey.

4_) Turkish Navy wouldn't have to take risks and relentlessly pursue MUM-T and unmanned naval aircraft this early and build a dedicated 60.000 ton aircraft carrier for them.

I've already written a lot about this topic but Turkey getting kicked out is not entirely Erdogan and his government's fault either: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/search/1227685/?t=post&c[thread]=17732&c[users]=snne&o=relevance

 

[TomcatViP]

@snne : Educated was my choice of word

 

[joshjosh]

While I can understand their frustrations with not being given source code or advanced engine secrets (who wouldn't want that), I don't think the restrictions went far enough. I would be in favor of selling F-35 to Turkey only if they are not allowed to use it with missiles, not allowed to base them in Turkey, and are restricted to only flying them only in the US with contracted US pilots.

 

[Ainen]

Türkyiye Is under no threat that requires the F-35.

One may say that Turkiye is one of very few countries in the west that actually needs them for its own defense, and not just as an crowd-sourced extension of USAF.

Ironically, that's ultimately the reason it can't have them.

 

[Josh_TN]

One may say that Turkiye is one of very few countries in the west that actually needs them for its own defense, and not just as an crowd-sourced extension of USAF.

Ironically, that's ultimately the reason it can't have them.

Against who? The Greeks?

 

[Ainen]

Against who? The Greeks?

Yes, Greece in Aegean, which is just barely suppressed by external intervention.
Border skirmishes with Syria and Kurds(which can be literally against anyone who's there).

Compare that to much of Western Europe, which logically should aim at best at the cheapest possible air policing fighter, or Canada, which probably should aim for arctic heavy interceptor.

Yet none of this happens, and none of it happens since long before the F-35.