Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

So what is this optical equipment for on the F-22? An IRST that should have been included on the ATF program from day one?
 
FighterJock said:
So what is this optical equipment for on the F-22? An IRST that should have been included on the ATF program from day one?
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It's the exact same image as in the previous page. The advanced IRST requirement was dropped during Dem/Val, and on the F-22 the system would initially have been dual sensors at the wing roots, which was later moved a single one under the nose. A requirement in EMD was later added to retain that space and cooling for future addition. Evidently that space is no longer available, perhaps repurposed for something else, hence these specially shaped pods.

It's certainly not as ideal as an internal system, which would require a more expensive design and retrofit (the funding for this effort is limited to a Middle Tier of Acquisition [MTA] to facilitate rapid prototyping, after all), although the impact can be mitigated through careful shaping. The pods also carries some EW equipment, so despite some tradeoffs it's an overall increase in capability and survivability. Stealthy external stores have been investigated since the FB-22 studies in the early to mid-2000s.

Many upcoming F-22 upgrades are directly linked to NGAD as well, so some components are likely to carry over although probably packaged internally as its a clean-sheet design airframe.
 
Interesting bit in this old article:

While any possibility of buying the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor has repeatedly been dismissed by politicians over the past decade or more as being too expensive, too inflexible and “not for sale”, following an informal RFI there was a proposal put to the Australian government by the US early in the AIR 6000 process for an export-configured Raptor which would have satisfied US ITARS arms export control laws while still providing a high-end capability. But the proposal was never seriously considered for a number of reasons, including the fact the aircraft was designed primarily for the air supremacy mission with only a secondary strike role and had no maritime strike capability. In addition, apart from the high unit cost, there would have also been a huge additional investment required as lead customer for the development of the export version.
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icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
It's the exact same image as in the previous page. The advanced IRST requirement was dropped during Dem/Val, and on the F-22 the system would initially have been dual sensors at the wing roots, which was later moved a single one under the nose. A requirement in EMD was later added to retain that space and cooling for future addition. Evidently that space is no longer available, perhaps repurposed for something else, hence these specially shaped pods.
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Weren't there photos of modded testbeds sporting IRST systems way back when? To clarify, they had them inbuilt in the roots, noses, and other areas of the testbeds.
 
It seems unlikely triangulation would be possible over such a short distance with that little distance between the sensors. Perhaps there was some kind of funky phase or time of arrival analysis you could derive range. I cannot fathom what the mechanism would be but it might be possible. If nothing else superior field of view as noted above.
 
Josh_TN said:
It seems unlikely triangulation would be possible over such a short distance with that little distance between the sensors. Perhaps there was some kind of funky phase or time of arrival analysis you could derive range. I cannot fathom what the mechanism would be but it might be possible. If nothing else superior field of view as noted above.
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If the pods do also have an EW function as suggested previously
icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
The pods also carries some EW equipment, so despite some tradeoffs it's an overall increase in capability and survivability.
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then FOV will also be important especially as a pod that size is likely for high bands.
 
Desert Watchdog said:
Weren't there photos of modded testbeds sporting IRST systems way back when? To clarify, they had them inbuilt in the roots, noses, and other areas of the testbeds.
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In a publication by Code One documenting the evolution of the F-22 design, the deletion of the IRST at the wing roots was cited as the reason for the leading edge flaps being moved further inboard compared to the YF-22. Later on a low-observable window for an IRST system had been tested during EMD (picture here), and the bulkheads of the F-22's forward fuselage do have inverted v-shape cutouts ostensibly to support an ventral sensor. However, at this point it may not be viewed as economical. Again, funding for sensor enhancements has been limited as an Middle Tier of Acquisition program in order to do things like rapidly prototype the systems. I suppose we'll see if there will be further mods depending on how long the F-22 remains in service, especially in light of the crewed PCA fighter component of NGAD being reevaluated.

For some interesting trivia, the F-22 IRST sensor (I think the term for it originally was EOSS, electro-optical sensor system) during Dem/Val was being developed by General Electric, while the current system is being developed by Raytheon.

If the funding isn't an issue, then I think there are some interesting things you can do to the airframe. Per Jay Miller's 2005 book on the F-22, there are provisions for more fuel volume in saddle and fin tanks, which suggest that there is unused internal volume due to budget constraints during EMD.
 
quellish said:
Why would you want to apply a new RAM coating? What problem would it solve?
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Maintenance and logistics. Use the same stuff as F-35 and/or B-21 (assuming that Lightning and Raider use the same RAM).

Especially being able to take less time for return to service after maintenance.



Josh_TN said:
It seems unlikely triangulation would be possible over such a short distance with that little distance between the sensors. Perhaps there was some kind of funky phase or time of arrival analysis you could derive range. I cannot fathom what the mechanism would be but it might be possible. If nothing else superior field of view as noted above.
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You can get naval-gunfire-quality triangulation over 50km with a 10m spacing.
 
quellish said:
Why do you say the podded IRST is being developed by Raytheon?
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Recent Raytheon contract award broadly aligns with the amount for Group B procurement funding under the Sensor Enhancement line item for the F-22. The contract language even spells out Group B hardware.
 
icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
Recent Raytheon contract award broadly aligns with the amount for Group B procurement funding under the Sensor Enhancement line item for the F-22. The contract language even spells out Group B hardware.
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The F-22 has a lot of sensors, and the Sensor Enhancement Program covers nearly all of them. More than one contractor is involved and hardware has already been delivered for some aspects of the program as upgrade kits. In addition to sensors themselves, an effort to add an open systems architecture layer to the F-22 is part of the Sensor Enhancement Program.

The Raytheon contract award information (FA8611-24-C-B001) has not actually been published that I can find. Only an award announcement.

And on a side note, an LDTP EMD contract is expected to be awarded on Halloween.
 
Alex Hollings from Sandbox has just uploaded this video concerning USAF plans for the F-22:


With the future of America’s next air superiority fighter now in question, America’s king of the skies, the F-22 Raptor, is set to extend its reign well into the 2030s, thanks to a slew of upgrades already underway — and the list keeps getting longer, with some $10.9 billion allocated to improving the Raptor fleet by 2031.
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But with only 150 F-22s in combat service... Can improving this endangered species of a fighter really be enough to maintain America's air superiority edge?
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I have to be honest, I'm not impressed by the signal-to-noise ratio of the Sandboxx videos.

siegecrossbow said:
If from the get go they had common components with the F-35 it would be a lot easier to modify/maintain the existing fleet.
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Incorporating the avionics of the F-35 would have required some rather substantial re-engineering of the F-22's systems since both have such highly integrated architectures. It wouldn't have been worthwhile unless the we got the full 381 aircraft that the Air Force wanted rather than being truncated at 195, and the longer production run could have supported improved variants. Even so, it's not like the F-35's avionics have been particularly conducive to upgrades either thus far, and as it currently stands, it's the F-22 that's actually outpacing the F-35 in terms of faster updates and releases.
 
What does the cost of a flight hour consist of?
The F-22 has a full life of 8000 hours, the cost of the machine for the US Air Force is 168 million. $
thus, an hour of resource costs 168 million $ : 8000 h = 21000 $
fuel cost in the USA in April 7.5 $ / gallon or 1.98 $/ kg
fuel consumption 3600 kg / h 3600 kg * 1.98 $/kg ~ 7000 $/h
$21,000 (resource) + $7000 (fuel) = $28,000$
68,362 left - $ 28,000 = $ 40,362
What can be included here? pilot's salary, technicians' salary, maintenance...
 
paralay said:
What does the cost of a flight hour consist of?
The F-22 has a full life of 8000 hours, the cost of the machine for the US Air Force is 168 million. $
thus, an hour of resource costs 168 million $ : 8000 h = 21000 $
fuel cost in the USA in April 7.5 $ / gallon or 1.98 $/ kg
fuel consumption 3600 kg / h 3600 kg * 1.98 $/kg ~ 7000 $/h
$21,000 (resource) + $7000 (fuel) = $28,000$
68,362 left - $ 28,000 = $ 40,362
What can be included here? pilot's salary, technicians' salary, maintenance...
Click to expand...

This is different for each country apparently. There is no single equation for this.
 
paralay said:
What does the cost of a flight hour consist of?
The F-22 has a full life of 8000 hours, the cost of the machine for the US Air Force is 168 million. $
thus, an hour of resource costs 168 million $ : 8000 h = 21000 $
fuel cost in the USA in April 7.5 $ / gallon or 1.98 $/ kg
fuel consumption 3600 kg / h 3600 kg * 1.98 $/kg ~ 7000 $/h
$21,000 (resource) + $7000 (fuel) = $28,000$
68,362 left - $ 28,000 = $ 40,362
What can be included here? pilot's salary, technicians' salary, maintenance...
Click to expand...
There's a number of maintenance-hours that have to happen after every flight, and that's divided up across however many specialties and trades are needed.

Plus the schools to teach them all, for airframe-specific things like the engines, electronics, and IIRC RAM structures/coatings
 

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