Conspirator
CLEARANCE: L5
- Joined
- 14 January 2021
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Points deducted for not writing "Mel Gibson, Linda Hunt, Sigourney Weaver and Bill Kerr."Interesting thread. Would make a good prequel to
Mel Gibson, Linda Hunt and Sigourney Weaver.The Year of Living Dangerously (film) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Not that far fetched actually. Indonesia got MiG-17s about a year early give or take while The Netherlands hung onto their Meteors about a year longer than OTL. Both decisions were driven by the situation in West New Guinea deteriorating faster than in OTL. The Dutch needed to get combat aircraft into the theater ASAP. And seeing as they were still in the process of converting to the Hawker Hunter, they made the decision to send an existing Meteor squadron since they already had a robust supply chain for that aircraft while spare parts for the Hunter would be in short supply for the near term. Then add in that, as important as West New Guinea was to The Netherlands, the USSR was right there and a bigger threat. So their European based squadrons got the better fighters first and 322 Squadron in Indonesia got knocked down the que for Hunters. And that's how you get Meteors vs Frescos in 1959such a strange battle..... the aircraft choice of course
So now i wonder, What If the Dutch send Hunters instead of Meteors, would they have done better in a dog fight.Not that far fetched actually. Indonesia got MiG-17s about a year early give or take while The Netherlands hung onto their Meteors about a year longer than OTL. Both decisions were driven by the situation in West New Guinea deteriorating faster than in OTL. The Dutch needed to get combat aircraft into the theater ASAP. And seeing as they were still in the process of converting to the Hawker Hunter, they made the decision to send an existing Meteor squadron since they already had a robust supply chain for that aircraft while spare parts for the Hunter would be in short supply for the near term. Then add in that, as important as West New Guinea was to The Netherlands, the USSR was right there and a bigger threat. So their European based squadrons got the better fighters first and 322 Squadron in Indonesia got knocked down the que for Hunters. And that's how you get Meteors vs Frescos in 1959such a strange battle..... the aircraft choice of course
Much better. The Hunter and MiG-17 were roughly equal in terms of performance. The Dutch Air Force probably would have been able to re-engage the bombers instead of being forced into a fighter on fighter engagement.So now i wonder, What If the Dutch send Hunters instead of Meteors, would they have done better in a dog fight.Not that far fetched actually. Indonesia got MiG-17s about a year early give or take while The Netherlands hung onto their Meteors about a year longer than OTL. Both decisions were driven by the situation in West New Guinea deteriorating faster than in OTL. The Dutch needed to get combat aircraft into the theater ASAP. And seeing as they were still in the process of converting to the Hawker Hunter, they made the decision to send an existing Meteor squadron since they already had a robust supply chain for that aircraft while spare parts for the Hunter would be in short supply for the near term. Then add in that, as important as West New Guinea was to The Netherlands, the USSR was right there and a bigger threat. So their European based squadrons got the better fighters first and 322 Squadron in Indonesia got knocked down the que for Hunters. And that's how you get Meteors vs Frescos in 1959such a strange battle..... the aircraft choice of course
Much better. The Hunter and MiG-17 were roughly equal in terms of performance. The Dutch Air Force probably would have been able to re-engage the bombers instead of being forced into a fighter on fighter engagement.So now i wonder, What If the Dutch send Hunters instead of Meteors, would they have done better in a dog fight.Not that far fetched actually. Indonesia got MiG-17s about a year early give or take while The Netherlands hung onto their Meteors about a year longer than OTL. Both decisions were driven by the situation in West New Guinea deteriorating faster than in OTL. The Dutch needed to get combat aircraft into the theater ASAP. And seeing as they were still in the process of converting to the Hawker Hunter, they made the decision to send an existing Meteor squadron since they already had a robust supply chain for that aircraft while spare parts for the Hunter would be in short supply for the near term. Then add in that, as important as West New Guinea was to The Netherlands, the USSR was right there and a bigger threat. So their European based squadrons got the better fighters first and 322 Squadron in Indonesia got knocked down the que for Hunters. And that's how you get Meteors vs Frescos in 1959such a strange battle..... the aircraft choice of course
They can't. Well, in a technical sense they probably could. But how are they going to keep them in the air once they get there? They have NOTHING to maintain them with on Biak. Unless the British let them raid their own spare parts cache. If they want Hunters in theater, they need to send them via ship so they can send spare parts with themSo how quikley if the Netherlands do it can they fly over a squadron of Hunters as replacement of the Meteors.
So now the land invasion has to begin, ruling the skies is only part of the victory.In a few words: they are doomed.
Wow, I never knew that the SeaMaster had a supersonic dash requirement! Thanks @_Del_
I think the requirement was for Mach .9 on the deck. Should have translated to higher speeds at altitude. The only beasts I can think of doing that at the timeframe involved were the Hustler and Vig.
Edit: forgot the Thud. There may be others
February 14, 1959
Singapore
Steam had been raised in the boilers, the last of the hastily arranged provisions had been hoisted aboard and now the lines were being cast off. HMS Albion was heading to sea.
Short answer? No. During her 1958-59 WESPAC cruise, her entire air group consisted of a single ASW S-2 squadron (VS-37), a single anti-submarine helicopter squadron (HS-2) and 4 F2H-3 Banshees as part of VF-92 Det N. Incidentally, this was the first deployment of a fighter squadron detachment on a CVSCan the Indonesians strike again before Yorktown arrives? Could the Yorktown even repulse an aerial attack?
Perhaps an attack on Yorktown, however small, shows that CVS airwings are too singular in purpose?
Short answer? No. During her 1958-59 WESPAC cruise, her entire air group consisted of a single ASW S-2 squadron (VS-37), a single anti-submarine helicopter squadron (HS-2) and 4 F2H-3 Banshees as part of VF-92 Det N. Incidentally, this was the first deployment of a fighter squadron detachment on a CVSCan the Indonesians strike again before Yorktown arrives? Could the Yorktown even repulse an aerial attack?
Perhaps an attack on Yorktown, however small, shows that CVS airwings are too singular in purpose?
Nothing detailed, this is kind of being thrown together on the fly. They're trying to get a detailed exercise put together as they go. The idea to focus it on air defense and anti-shipping strikesShort answer? No. During her 1958-59 WESPAC cruise, her entire air group consisted of a single ASW S-2 squadron (VS-37), a single anti-submarine helicopter squadron (HS-2) and 4 F2H-3 Banshees as part of VF-92 Det N. Incidentally, this was the first deployment of a fighter squadron detachment on a CVSCan the Indonesians strike again before Yorktown arrives? Could the Yorktown even repulse an aerial attack?
Perhaps an attack on Yorktown, however small, shows that CVS airwings are too singular in purpose?
Is there coordination between the British and Americans ore are they doing this on their own.
So this ATL has a 3rd Audacious-class carrier?February 14, 1959
Singapore
The intent was to send a very clear message to Indonesia about their actions with regard to West New Guinea. Hopefully, that message would be received and understood. And if not? Well, the United States had another carrier near Japan and Admiral Sir Gerald Gladstone, CINC Far East Fleet, had just been informed that both Audacious and Victorious were being issued orders to deploy to Singapore much earlier than had been planned. If Indonesia was serious about prosecuting this war, they would soon find themselves heavily outgunned.
No. It was in my notes from awhile ago. That should be Ark RoyalSo this ATL has a 3rd Audacious-class carrier?February 14, 1959
Singapore
The intent was to send a very clear message to Indonesia about their actions with regard to West New Guinea. Hopefully, that message would be received and understood. And if not? Well, the United States had another carrier near Japan and Admiral Sir Gerald Gladstone, CINC Far East Fleet, had just been informed that both Audacious and Victorious were being issued orders to deploy to Singapore much earlier than had been planned. If Indonesia was serious about prosecuting this war, they would soon find themselves heavily outgunned.
So you have nothing against here then, just one of your trolls messing up the notes.No. It was in my notes from awhile ago. That should be Ark RoyalSo this ATL has a 3rd Audacious-class carrier?February 14, 1959
Singapore
The intent was to send a very clear message to Indonesia about their actions with regard to West New Guinea. Hopefully, that message would be received and understood. And if not? Well, the United States had another carrier near Japan and Admiral Sir Gerald Gladstone, CINC Far East Fleet, had just been informed that both Audacious and Victorious were being issued orders to deploy to Singapore much earlier than had been planned. If Indonesia was serious about prosecuting this war, they would soon find themselves heavily outgunned.
Trolls meaning me. LolSo you have nothing against here then, just one of your trolls messing up the notes.No. It was in my notes from awhile ago. That should be Ark RoyalSo this ATL has a 3rd Audacious-class carrier?February 14, 1959
Singapore
The intent was to send a very clear message to Indonesia about their actions with regard to West New Guinea. Hopefully, that message would be received and understood. And if not? Well, the United States had another carrier near Japan and Admiral Sir Gerald Gladstone, CINC Far East Fleet, had just been informed that both Audacious and Victorious were being issued orders to deploy to Singapore much earlier than had been planned. If Indonesia was serious about prosecuting this war, they would soon find themselves heavily outgunned.
The RN is moving up the deployment of both Ark Royal and Victorious.I wonder...is there any chance the Royal Navy could get involved here? Would HMS Ark Royal, perhaps with a rushed into service Supermarine Scimitar, be able to be sent to the area for instance?
Victorious in OTL had Scimitars and Firestreak-capable Sea Venoms in 1958. I wonder if the Scimitars had their sidewinders yet? Then again, in TTL this confrontation has been simmering for almost 2 years - who knows what kit decisions have been made or brought forward in that time? Likely some extra Sidewinder fittings than in OTLI wonder...is there any chance the Royal Navy could get involved here? Would HMS Ark Royal, perhaps with a rushed into service Supermarine Scimitar, be able to be sent to the area for instance?
A few more fighters have sidewinders equipped. The Scimitar is sidewinder capable from the factory and has already been designated to operate the AGM-12 when it enters British service.Victorious in OTL had Scimitars and Firestreak-capable Sea Venoms in 1958. I wonder if the Scimitars had their sidewinders yet? Then again, in TTL this confrontation has been simmering for almost 2 years - who knows what kit decisions have been made or brought forward in that time? Likely some extra Sidewinder fittings than in OTLI wonder...is there any chance the Royal Navy could get involved here? Would HMS Ark Royal, perhaps with a rushed into service Supermarine Scimitar, be able to be sent to the area for instance?
Ark didn’t have Scimitars until 1960, but it would have Sea Venoms and Sea Hawks. Could Ark get Scimitars too? Depends on deliveries - this site gives 39 Scimitars delivered to the end of 1958, so it’s a possibility. They are going to discover a lot of flaws during ops though.
One thing I noticed at the UK Serials site referenced above - the RAF Canadair Sabres were returned to the States 1957-59 and passed on to Italy and Yugoslavia. I wonder if the changed situation in the Far East might lead to some Sabres being retained?
Actually, she is. She just finished her modernization and working up.Doorman is presently not available, can't remember why.
That will be covered in an upcoming post. The Dutch response will be coming shortlyJust a thought. The Dutch navy flew 22 Hawker Sea Hawk FGA 50 aircraft from Karel Doorman. Operations of a 5-8 aircraft carrier flight started in 1958. Most of those eventually carried Sidewinders. Any use for your project? Or have you already covered that?
Actually, she is. She just finished her modernization and working up.Doorman is presently not available, can't remember why.
That will be covered in an upcoming post. The Dutch response will be coming shortlyJust a thought. The Dutch navy flew 22 Hawker Sea Hawk FGA 50 aircraft from Karel Doorman. Operations of a 5-8 aircraft carrier flight started in 1958. Most of those eventually carried Sidewinders. Any use for your project? Or have you already covered that?