Boeing Starliner

Take no risks. Send the crew back on a Dragon, not on that rickety bucket of lose bolts. Boeing has self buried itself too deep in shit to take that risk.
Then send the damn thing to reentry, unmanned, and if it want to burn, then
(quoting Adele "Set fire to the rain")
LET IT BUUUUUUURRRRNN HOOOOOOOOOOO LET IIIIT BUUUUURN
 
I can totally agree with you on that point Archibald, the Starliner has caused too many problems to be of use any more. Bring back the crew on Dragon and be done with it and I would think that Boeing will have to learn quickly from this mistake before launching anymore.
 
At this point in time the senior management of Boeing needs to be very thoroughly purged of the McDonnell Aircraft Corporation corporate culture that has infested it since it took over McDonnell-Douglas, its' headquarters needs to be moved back to Seattle AND they need to start appointing senior execs again who have an engineering background NOT accounting.
 
At this point, try to bring the Starliner home (unmanned of course). If it survives, the Smithsonian can display it as “how not to design and build a spacecraft.”
Yeah, it looks more like SpaceX to the rescue.
 
siegecrossbow said:
The real question is how the starliner’s design could be further optimized for shareholder values.
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NASA needs to make it crystal-clear to Boeing's management and board of directors that if they continue down this path it's going to be very costly to Boeing both financially and reputation wise.
 
TheKutKu said:
Let's bring it home crewed. I haven't seen any convincing argument that it's unsafe for return.
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Well, the main argument is that this darn bucket didn't manage to perform a single flight without technical issues or potentially dangerous accidents. NASA simply can't be sure, that NOTHING ELSE would break during landing attempt.
 
siegecrossbow said:
The real question is how the starliner’s design could be further optimized for shareholder values.
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Optimize for shareholder values?

Cut Starliner up into small pieces, mount on walnut plaques, and sell though the Boeing Store and eBay as "Unique Collectors Items".
 
Dilandu said:
Well, the main argument is that this darn bucket didn't manage to perform a single flight without technical issues or potentially dangerous accidents. NASA simply can't be sure, that NOTHING ELSE would break during landing attempt.
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Nobody can ever be sure that a space mission will go fine. If it fails it fails, such is life. But the previous flights and the test done on this one suggest they can undock and reenter.
 
And the hits just keep coming...

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/...starliner-issues/?comments=1&comments-page=12

Turns out that thruster failure at the wrong time not only endangers the Starliner, but could risk Starliner collision with the ISS.

And in short, (as reported) Starliner does not currently have the capability to perform an automated undocking from the ISS - this capability was removed from the Operational Flight Software after the last uncrewed mission. (This means that there is currently no way to EMJETT the Startliner) This vastly complicates ISS contingencies if the Starliner crew is returned via Dragon, essentially bricking a docking port.

As I am writing this, Cygnus should have docked with additional supplies (including food and new underwear for the Starliner crew). (just checked, nope, docking in 2+24)
 
aim9xray said:
And the hits just keep coming...

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/...starliner-issues/?comments=1&comments-page=12

Turns out that thruster failure at the wrong time not only endangers the Starliner, but could risk Starliner collision with the ISS.

And in short, (as reported) Starliner does not currently have the capability to perform an automated undocking from the ISS - this capability was removed from the Operational Flight Software after the last uncrewed mission. (This means that there is currently no way to EMJETT the Startliner) This vastly complicates ISS contingencies if the Starliner crew is returned via Dragon, essentially bricking a docking port.

As I am writing this, Cygnus should have docked with additional supplies (including food and new underwear for the Starliner crew). (just checked, nope, docking in 2+24)
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Most brilliant non-contingency planning ever all around!
 
aim9xray said:
As I am writing this, Cygnus should have docked with additional supplies (including food and new underwear for the Starliner crew). (just checked, nope, docking in 2+24)
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for moment working Northrop-Grumman on problem with Cygnus engine who is stuck in parking orbit.
 
At this point, I think that starliner side hides behind two ship requirement when it had already done exactly the thing it was supposed to do.

One ship is a failed design, the other one works w/o issues. Redundancy already did everything necessary. There's no need for more now: dragon works, period. Better than starliner will ever be.

If there's a lesson here - it isn't to try to make a rotten boat float, it's to repeat the two-ship competition for the next gen ship. Which was a success (though, as it turns out, it likely cut off a good apple for a rotten one)
 
Just wondering: could the Canadarm manipulator be used to push Starliner away from station? Starliner likely didn't have proper adapter slot, but something could be jury-rigged, I assume. Assuming that docking clamps could be released from the station, of course.
 
Oh damn, they can't even get ride of the damn thing. It just can't undock automatically.

Just wondering: could the Canadarm manipulator be used to push Starliner away from station? Starliner likely didn't have proper adapter slot, but something could be jury-rigged, I assume. Assuming that docking clamps could be released from the station, of course.
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Agree. Just grab the silly thing and get the canadarm throwing it discus -style. To quote Ellen Ripley "It's the only way to be sure."

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkD5kjMsUWU
 
Archibald said:
Agree. Just grab the silly thing and get the canadarm throwing it discus -style. To quote Ellen Ripley "It's the only way to be sure."
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Actually I meant "gently push it, so it would slowly drift to safe distance before engaging motors"
 
So... where has NASA been thoughout the whole design/build process for Starliner? You'd think they would have staff there looking over Boeing's shoulders, so to speak, making sure it is built to specs and is what they ordered. Or is a case like the FAA and the 737MAX where they let Boeing self inspect (for lack of a better description)?

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
Mark Nankivil said:
So... where has NASA been thoughout the whole design/build process for Starliner? You'd think they would have staff there looking over Boeing's shoulders, so to speak, making sure it is built to specs and is what they ordered. Or is a case like the FAA and the 737MAX where they let Boeing self inspect (for lack of a better description)?

Enjoy the Day! Mark
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NASA bought a service and not hardware. This is how they launch satellites and also cargo to the ISS. The contractor owns and operates the hardware. NASA doesn't have staff to look over their shoulders and NASA made a mistake in thinking Boeing was somewhat competent (X-37, ISS, Shuttle). There should have a been a little more insight. NASA did not look over SpaceX's shoulder.
 
Assuming the Starliner capsule has a hatch that is usable while undocked, attach a long tether between it and the station, have one astronaut pilot it clear of the station, then exit the capsule and untie the tether from the capsule... bring him back to the station by reeling in the tether line.

Then fly them all home via Dragon, and remotely tell Starliner to execute its re-entry program.

If it gets back safely, great... if not, we don't add any more names to the mirror.
 
I don't believe (and I could be completely wrong here - for huge error bars of wrong) - that the Starliner ascent/descent suits are EVA capable (life support umbilicals only, no PLSS packs or equivalents). I do not think the the ISS EVA suits will fit through the Starliner hatches.
 

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