Boeing/Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche

[Triton]

Reposting information shared by rotorwash from Stingray's Rotorcraft Forum scanned from the United States Army Aviation Museum archives.

Source:

Stingray's Rotorcraft Forum

Discussion forum about helicopters and other rotorcraft - a part of the world's largest rotorcraft archive, "Stingray's List of Rotorcraft"

stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com

 

[Triton]

Reposting images shared by rotorwash from Stingray's Rotorcraft Forum of the Sikorsky/Boeing RAH-66 Comanche mockup scanned from the United States Army Aviation Museum archives.

Source:

Stingray's Rotorcraft Forum

Discussion forum about helicopters and other rotorcraft - a part of the world's largest rotorcraft archive, "Stingray's List of Rotorcraft"

stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com

 

[Sea Skimmer]

Would that have been the RAH-66B Comanche Longbow? Or just a different rotorhead-mounted housing for the AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control radar?

For a while Comanche was supposed to get a new lightweight AESA radar instead of Longbow, which was killed for technical risk, contributing to weight growth that helped kill the aircraft. I wonder if this was the housing for that radar?

 

[Triton]

Reposting images shared by Flyboy on Stingray's Rotorcraft Forum

Source:
http://stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com/t41781177/boeing-sikorsky-rah-66-comanche/?page=2&sort=oldestFirst

 

[Triton]

Reposting information shared by rotorwash from Stingray's Rotorcraft Forum

Source:
http://stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com/t41781177/boeing-sikorsky-rah-66-comanche/?page=1&r=528307

 

[dragon72]

Thanks Triton. One of the most beautiful helicopters ever.

 

[Triton]

Not as nice as the copy provided by yasotay and hosted by flateric, but I thought that I would share it:

 

[Triton]

 

[flateric]

...

 

[Stuka]

Full scale mock up, early EMD phase. Love the splinter camo. Source: TransFX flickr page

 

[RavenOne]

Back in 2000, when the Army unveiled its proposed aviation Multi Function Battalion , it was supposed to have read something the lines of

20 X AH-64D

10 X RAH-66

10 X UH-60L

10 X CH-47D

cheers

 

[TomS]

Where did this fit in the rest of the OB? One per heavy division? Or was the Army already moving toward.brigade-based organizations?

 

[flateric]

Images: U.S. Army

 

[Colonial-Marine]

For a while Comanche was supposed to get a new lightweight AESA radar instead of Longbow, which was killed for technical risk, contributing to weight growth that helped kill the aircraft. I wonder if this was the housing for that radar?

Does anybody have more details about this, or images/drawings of how it would have looked? The housing for the variation of the existing Longbow radar they were planning for certainly stood out against what is an otherwise very "clean" design.

 

[fredymac]

 

[RAP]

1993 AWST article.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Every time I am reminded of this aircraft I am reminded of the truly amazing waste of an aircraft. It would still be an asset if they brought it out now.

 

[SpudmanWP]

Imagine it with today's advancements in PGMs like APKWS & LZUNI along with guided cannon shells.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

If they didn't ax the light utility variant of the LHX the Army might have something a lot nicer than the UH-72 for specialized roles too.

 

[kaiserd]

All lovely sentiments but the problem was that the Comanche had by the time of its cancellation mutated and bloated into a grotesque waste of money.
Almost as heavy as an Apache (and more costly but arguably less capable), threatening to use up nearly all the US Army’s aviation procurement spending while in many ways being at odds with the then recent Iraq combat experience.
The management of its intended replacement programs also sucked but the Comanche is a class example of a project that wasn’t canceled too soon, but not soon enough.

 

[F-14D]

Imagine it with today's advancements in PGMs like APKWS & LZUNI along with guided cannon shells.

Well, maybe we'll find out if FARA gets built. Of course, first Army would have to introduce APKWS on something beside the AH-6M or Zuni on anything.

 

[marauder2048]

while in many ways being at odds with the then recent Iraq combat experience.

The debacle of the 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment's attack apparently (and inexplicably) notwithstanding...

 

[yasotay]

Kaiserd's assessment is correct. Dynamic components were brilliant, but changing requirements over the period of development overwhelmed the overall design.

 

[TomS]

while in many ways being at odds with the then recent Iraq combat experience.

The debacle of the 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment's attack apparently (and inexplicably) notwithstanding...

I thought that pretty much supported the decision. Bunch of Apaches whacked by optically aimed AAA, against which the Comanche's stealth would have been useless. Or are you talking about the need for reconnaissance helos that could operate with the Apaches?

 

[marauder2048]

The latter but lack of a fast and agile runway independent recon asset really hobbled that mission from the get-go.

And the need to fly nap-of-the-earth to get under radar or MANPAD altitude minima
dramatically increased their exposure to the small-arms and AAA threat.

 

[yasotay]

The fact that the 11th Regt. was locked into the worst route of flight by fixed wing flight routes on one side and artillery on the other is documented in the official Army history. It even states that the mission did not meet launch criteria, but everone wanted to do the mission. Ironically two days later the 101st Division did a very similar mission and met with success. It was not a failure soit did not get much (if any) media coverage.

 

[Archibald]

All lovely sentiments but the problem was that the Comanche had by the time of its cancellation mutated and bloated into a grotesque waste of money.
Almost as heavy as an Apache (and more costly but arguably less capable), threatening to use up nearly all the US Army’s aviation procurement spending while in many ways being at odds with the then recent Iraq combat experience.
The management of its intended replacement programs also sucked but the Comanche is a class example of a project that wasn’t canceled too soon, but not soon enough.

You know what ? the Comanche is just like that very first Hulk movie by Ang Lee, where it features prominently (stupidly) attacking the green angry man with Hellfire missiles. Everybody hated it, and it was quickly forgotten.

i personally like both of these underdogs, because Jennifer Connelly and the Comanche were both extremely sexy. Screw all the other Hulk movies that followed.

 

[SpudmanWP]

lol.. Kong: Skull Island showed some pretty stupid "how not to attack a large monster with helicopters" tactics too.

Even my wife was screaming at the TV saying "wtf are you doing.. fly AWAY from it, not towards it".

 

[F-14D]

lol.. Kong: Skull Island showed some pretty stupid "how not to attack a large monster with helicopters" tactics too.

Even my wife was screaming at the TV saying "wtf are you doing.. fly AWAY from it, not towards it".

No doubt those are the same F-35 pilots who flew right next to Rodan while trying to attack him.

(Don't even get me started on footsoldiers who tried to take on Godzilla with M4s)

 

[SpudmanWP]

No doubt those are the same F-35 pilots who flew right next to Rodan while trying to attack him.

LJDAMS from 50k would have done better, just remember to use BLU-109s for the armored ones

 

[F-14D]

Don't forget, Rodan can hit at least the high subsonic when he has to,



so he'd be a difficult target for those.

Godzilla, OTOH, uses those weapons to pick his teeth..


...maybe we're getting too carried away.

 

[dan_inbox]

Those kinds of comments would be much better at home in the Bar, wouldn't they?

 

[F-14D]

Like I said, "...maybe we'e getting too carried away".

 

[Dynoman]

Interesting paper written on the program and reasons for RAH-66 termination from the Defense Acquisition University.
https://www.dau.mil/library/arj/ARJ/arj62/Demotes-Mainard_ARJ62.pdf

 

[yasotay]

Interesting paper written on the program and reasons for RAH-66 termination from the Defense Acquisition University.
https://www.dau.mil/library/arj/ARJ/arj62/Demotes-Mainard_ARJ62.pdf

Interesting paper written on the program and reasons for RAH-66 termination from the Defense Acquisition University.
https://www.dau.mil/library/arj/ARJ/arj62/Demotes-Mainard_ARJ62.pdf

Thanks for the link. This looks very interesting.

 

[Dynoman]

Is anyone aware of any studies with the RAH-66 in the Air-to-Air role? I have some articles on helicopter vs helicopter combat and a Marine Corps study on helicopter A2A, but haven't seen anything that specifically relates to the expected performance or tactics relating to the capitalization on the Comanche's stealth, outside of detection distances and weapons capabilities.

 

[yasotay]

Comanche was to be capable of carrying Stinger MANPAD. If memory serves it was to be a "Block 2" modernization. Remember that at the time of the requirements the U.S. Army still expected the USAF to rule the skies. To answer your question I don't think there were specific studies regarding Comanche air-to-air capabilities because the Army did not want "those damned fool aviators" out "shooting down their watches" instead of finding and killing tanks. However the Aviation Applied Technology Directorate at Fort Eustis did a rather large test of a number of helicopters conducting 1-v-1 maneuvers. I recall seeing a video of an AH-64 and a (then) Eurocopter Dauphin doing an engagement. This was in the early 90's I think.

 

[SpudmanWP]

Up to 32 Stingers.... OUCH

 

[SpudmanWP]

Just in case it has not made it here yet.

 

[Dynoman]

Yasotay, thank you! I was able to locate the Helicopter Air to Air Combat Test IV (July 1992) report from the AATD. Very interesting read. The conclusion section that discusses the test findings showed that:
The ability to monitor effectively (without consuming increasing pilot workload) and/ or have automatic load alleviation technologies that prevent over loading the airframe or exceeding torque limits are important in the design of an air supremacy helicopter. A relatively small helicopter makes it difficult to visually see the helicopter and allows for greater maneuverability. The pitch changes in helicopter maneuvers can severely effect the ability of the pilot to target the enemies helicopter for weapon's release. Yaw axis performance was significant for successful ACM (study identified the SA-365N as the best of those tested). Helmet Mounted Devices were viable technologies for helicopter ACM. The ability to quickly dash in and out of the engagement with high acceleration rates and maximum speed was considered significant.