Various Focke-Wulf projects
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Look at the trailing edge of the dotted and solid airfoil section in the drawing.
If the dotted is at the root and solid outboard of that then there is some trailing edge sweep and anhedral going on - very weird and unlike any planform the 190 had or anything focke wulf did at that time.
But assuming that the dotted section is outboard and the solid is at the root then it makes more sense. If the trailing edge has the same forward sweep as on the v1 and production 190, then the dotted section would be at the same location as the gear in the normal and v1 190, and would indicate something very similar to the p-36/40.
If the dotted is at the root and solid outboard of that then there is some trailing edge sweep and anhedral going on - very weird and unlike any planform the 190 had or anything focke wulf did at that time.
But assuming that the dotted section is outboard and the solid is at the root then it makes more sense. If the trailing edge has the same forward sweep as on the v1 and production 190, then the dotted section would be at the same location as the gear in the normal and v1 190, and would indicate something very similar to the p-36/40.
Silencer1
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee!
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Let's think like Kurt Tank, FW-190 chief designer - what reason would be important enough, to change the layout of undercarriage retraction?
My guess is that:
1) wing' inward section could be filled with much armament. To made main spar more strong (with all this barrel's holes), leg could be retracted a-la P-40
2) some bombs or auxiliary fuel tanks were long enough, that it should be placed with their tips forward to leading edge, and conventional retraction prevents it?
3) wingspan changed so dramatically, so legs rotating axis goes far outside the fuselage - and became too short to provide wheels accommodation inside the fuselage?
Just my pure speculations, of course - and I'm looking for a noter SPF' members ideas!
P.S. At least we knew, that this drawing didn't materialized in any build version, except of the ones, equipped with upper-mounted fuselage MGs
My guess is that:
1) wing' inward section could be filled with much armament. To made main spar more strong (with all this barrel's holes), leg could be retracted a-la P-40
2) some bombs or auxiliary fuel tanks were long enough, that it should be placed with their tips forward to leading edge, and conventional retraction prevents it?
3) wingspan changed so dramatically, so legs rotating axis goes far outside the fuselage - and became too short to provide wheels accommodation inside the fuselage?
Just my pure speculations, of course - and I'm looking for a noter SPF' members ideas!
P.S. At least we knew, that this drawing didn't materialized in any build version, except of the ones, equipped with upper-mounted fuselage MGs
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Apteryx
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I might have seen the wind tunnel model being admired by these gents in the photo...
Around 1983 the University of Florida had a career fair. The Aeronautical Engineering department had a table, which was dominated by a wooden Ta-183 model that looked just like that one. The student manning the table didn't know anything about it. Now, the model's age was not apparent. It might have been a student project or part of a thesis or something, but, in 1983, there was not wide awareness of this project, nor had I seen the factory drawings that have been published since. It might be coincidence, but, at that time, Hans von Ohain was a visiting professor.
Around 1983 the University of Florida had a career fair. The Aeronautical Engineering department had a table, which was dominated by a wooden Ta-183 model that looked just like that one. The student manning the table didn't know anything about it. Now, the model's age was not apparent. It might have been a student project or part of a thesis or something, but, in 1983, there was not wide awareness of this project, nor had I seen the factory drawings that have been published since. It might be coincidence, but, at that time, Hans von Ohain was a visiting professor.
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sienar said:
The two Focke-Wulf drawings are from AIR 40/2005 at the National Archives in Kew - the handout report for the 1-TL-Jager meeting which took place at the end of February 1945.
blackkite
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Thanks a lot. Surprising document!!
Explanation of this document says that.....
"Exclusively at DeutscheLuftwaffe.de we provide you with a long-range bomber study
The Focke Wulf aircraft construction A. G from the year 1936 ago!
A reflection on the development possibilities of a long-range bomber, the title of these original documents.
The reason for these investigations was "-the need to create an effective long-distance assault weapon!"
The search was then made for a weapon platform that would allow a bomb load of 1,000 kilograms to reach its destination over a 6 ' 000 km flight.
It is astonishing that these documents already write about the possibility of printing suits, as this development is already being observed in England. It is also important to read pressure suits instead of the pressurized cabin at large altitudes.
Unfortunately, the long-distance bomber project did not have a project name because it was a study of the development possibilities! Only the portfolio had the race number No. 6401/RLM 781."
"Bomber Development in Germany
The German air Force developed the military concept of Allied weapons in the years from 1935. This means that the army and the Air Force are closely connected by the Luftwaffenverbindungs leadership officers who are on the ground with the army units. This approach requires precise planning of the fight against military targets. For this reason, the military leadership left only two twin tactical bombers, e.g. the Ju 88 build. From 1940 to 1941, German bombers attacked the southern parts of the United Kingdom to prepare for an invasion of the so-called air Battle of England. In the end, however, the limited range of the escorts and the high bomb losses led to the 1941 attacks being largely halted.
Focke Wulf
Focke-Wulf-Aircraft Construction AG (AB 1936 GmbH) was a German aircraft manufacturer from Bremen. The company, which was founded in 1923, merged 1963 with Weser-aircraft-Construction GmbH into the United Aviation Engineering Plants (VFW).
Remote Bomber project of 1936"
Explanation of this document says that.....
"Exclusively at DeutscheLuftwaffe.de we provide you with a long-range bomber study
The Focke Wulf aircraft construction A. G from the year 1936 ago!
A reflection on the development possibilities of a long-range bomber, the title of these original documents.
The reason for these investigations was "-the need to create an effective long-distance assault weapon!"
The search was then made for a weapon platform that would allow a bomb load of 1,000 kilograms to reach its destination over a 6 ' 000 km flight.
It is astonishing that these documents already write about the possibility of printing suits, as this development is already being observed in England. It is also important to read pressure suits instead of the pressurized cabin at large altitudes.
Unfortunately, the long-distance bomber project did not have a project name because it was a study of the development possibilities! Only the portfolio had the race number No. 6401/RLM 781."
"Bomber Development in Germany
The German air Force developed the military concept of Allied weapons in the years from 1935. This means that the army and the Air Force are closely connected by the Luftwaffenverbindungs leadership officers who are on the ground with the army units. This approach requires precise planning of the fight against military targets. For this reason, the military leadership left only two twin tactical bombers, e.g. the Ju 88 build. From 1940 to 1941, German bombers attacked the southern parts of the United Kingdom to prepare for an invasion of the so-called air Battle of England. In the end, however, the limited range of the escorts and the high bomb losses led to the 1941 attacks being largely halted.
Focke Wulf
Focke-Wulf-Aircraft Construction AG (AB 1936 GmbH) was a German aircraft manufacturer from Bremen. The company, which was founded in 1923, merged 1963 with Weser-aircraft-Construction GmbH into the United Aviation Engineering Plants (VFW).
Remote Bomber project of 1936"
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blackkite said:
Not really an exclusive when all the drawings and several pages from both documents were published seven years ago by Hans-Peter Dabrowski and Peter Achs in Focke-Wulf Fw 191 Kampfflugzeug und das Bomber B-Programm. An excellent tome, btw.
sgeorges4
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any official drawing of the focke wulf volksjager?
https://www.google.fr/search?q=focke+wulf+volksjager&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic786yzuPYAhUFxRQKHYZ6AukQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=656
https://www.google.fr/search?q=focke+wulf+volksjager&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic786yzuPYAhUFxRQKHYZ6AukQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=656
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I agree , only as a sketch.
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Zizi6785 said:
This is 'Nachtjager mit 2 x HeS 011' from Kurzbeschreibung Nr. 27 of February 7, 1945. The Nr. 26 design of January 27, 1945, is also 'Nachtjager mit 2 x HeS 011' and has a very similar description, though the drawing (cited as 0310 251-25) is missing from my copy of that document. The main difference seems to be that the Nr. 27 (drawing 0310 251-36) is described as a 'mitteldecker' or 'mid-wing', while the Nr. 26 is described as a 'tiefdecker' or 'low-wing'.
Somewhere kicking around is a piece of artwork by secretprojects.co.uk's own Flitzer showing a 'Focke-Wulf Fw 251 Entwurf II of Feb 45', based on a design on p221 of Manfred Griehl's Jet Planes of the Third Reich - The Secret Projects Volume 2. This design is similar to that shown in Kurzbeschreibung Nr. 27... but with a low wing. Therefore, I would suggest it is likely that the design Griehl put forward is actually the missing Kurzbeschreibung Nr. 26, drawing number 0310 251-25.
The more famous sequence of five night fighters has Entwurf II on drawing numbers 0310 251-50 (March 7, 1945) and 0310 251-51 (March 6, 1945), Entwurf III on drawing number 0310 251-52 (March 10, 1945), Entwurf IV on drawing number 0310 251-53 and Entwurf V on drawing number 0310 251-54.
So it would appear that the long-intake night-fighter designs of Feb 1945 - Kurzbeschreibungs Nr. 26 and 27 - are actually early precursors to the main sequence of five (well, four of the five, since Entwurf I appears to have been left out of considerations for some reason) which went forward as competitors in the Nacht- und Schlechtwetterjagd competition (which I've now seen referred to as '2-TL-Jager' in a couple of places).
NB: None of these designs was ever known as the 'Fw 251' - this seems to have been a later 'fudge' by those struggling to understand Focke-Wulf's project numbering system.
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sgeorges4 said:
P 0310-251-013? Well, 0310 251-13 is a drawing number from Kurzbeschreibung Nr. 21 Nachtjäger und Schlechtwetterzerstörer Jumo 222 E/F und 2 x BMW 003. There's no 'P' in front of it. And yes, I've got that one, and 0310 251-14 as well. I would guess that both are in Justo's new Focke-Wulf jets book.
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sgeorges4 said:
That would be the Kurzbaubeschreibung Nr. 16 Hochleistungsjäger mit As 9-413. The first draft of the report, which has drawings 0310 025-1005 and 0310 025-1006 in it, is dated September 14, 1944. Then there's a second one dated October 3, 1944. It was designed to meet an RLM specification for a Hochleistungsjäger issued on July 21, 1944. The data on the artwork you posted appears to be accurate.
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sgeorges4 said:
I've found three versions in three different places but I think there are at least five versions out there. Manfred Greihl shows a drawing of it in his Focke-Wulf typenkompass that I've never seen anywhere else. Your best bet is the Musee de l'air et de l'espace.
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