US Supersonic Transport (SST) Program 1960-1971

[Scott Kenny]

So I have a question, assuming the 2700 (or even really the l-2000) had been biult and flown, how much more range would be added if the passenger count was reduced to 150 instead of 300?

Assume each passenger is worth 200lbs of fuel (175lb FAA standard passenger, plus at least 25lbs for a seat), times 150 pax, gives 30,000lbs of additional fuel. Do you have fuel capacity stats for those planes?

Edit: now that I have a fuel capacity spec for the 2707-300 of 475klbs, that's looking like only a 6-7% increase in fuel load/range (passenger planes rarely ever take off at max fuel, as they'd rather load for planned trip plus required reserves). So, half the passengers to fly 6% farther? Unlikely to be worth it, unless you can get those passengers to pay Business Class prices for seats.

Nice document from Boeing's here:
http://www.emotionreports.com/downloads/pdfs/boeing.pdf

There is surprisingly few on the -300 technically-side. Also of interest is the neat 3-views detailing the "public" evolution (no hint to the 1968 studies that led to the delta configuration), where you can find the rarely seen early-VG 2707 canard configuration.

Link is dead, is there a place I can get that?

Air Force One based on a B-58....

I mean, there's arguments for making your Presidential transport a National Prestige project, but I can't see that happening with a VB-58, too short ranged and not enough passenger capacity for support staff. Plus, it doesn't do the boss any good to arrive before the ground transportation does.

 

[flateric]

Link is dead, is there a place I can get that?

As always

Wayback Machine

 

[Scott Kenny]

As always

Wayback Machine

Keep forgetting them...

 

[flateric]

Sweet November (1968)

 

[hesham]

From, Popular Mechanics 1963.

 

[hesham]

.From Life magazine 1971

 

[hesham]

Did we send this before ?,I know that,we spoke about it as a bomber.

 

[hesham]

From Boeing magazine 1961.

 

[hesham]

From Air Pictorial 1964.

 

[fightingirish]

, but have these videos been posted before?

Mike Lombardi, Boeing historian shows us the remaining parts of the SST mockup.

View: https://youtu.be/-R7LOWwYkHo?si=S1vrKq2doXeGlleW

View: https://youtu.be/SV6CrKKynK4?si=GURKnP4lm9w9YPqc

View: https://youtu.be/C2udn3wFhEA?si=vvD78iGXr80DdmeS

 

[SCAT-15F]

No mention of it anywhere, but I remember reading that the final Boeing 2707 cruise speed of mach 2.7 was reduced to mach 2.6 as part of the switch to the Concorde-esque delta wing version...

 

[Scott Kenny]

No mention of it anywhere, but I remember reading that the final Boeing 2707 cruise speed of mach 2.7 was reduced to mach 2.6 as part of the switch to the Concorde-esque delta wing version...

Not according to the PDF I got from this forum of the General Characteristics of the 2707-300.

 

[SCAT-15F]

Wish I could find the source, but I recall them saying (very late in the program, after the switch to the delta configuration) the mach number dropping to 2.65. then 2.62. Not that it makes much of a difference, still being over 1700 mph, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[SCAT-15F]

Wish I could find the source, but I recall them saying (very late in the program, after the switch to the delta configuration) the mach number dropping to 2.65. then 2.62. Not that it makes much of a difference, still being over 1700 mph, but interesting nonetheless.

I believe the 2.7 mach number had a lot to do with fuel, with mach 2.7 being the fastest you could go in cruise and still use JP-5. (recall the Blackbird and XB-70 used JP-7 and-6 to deal with heat-soaking). I don't know what the L2000 had in mind...

 

[Scott Kenny]

I believe the 2.7 mach number had a lot to do with fuel, with mach 2.7 being the fastest you could go in cruise and still use JP-5. (recall the Blackbird and XB-70 used JP-7 and-6 to deal with heat-soaking). I don't know what the L2000 had in mind...

File I have said that Cost was the driver.

"The choice of Mach 2.7 as the cruising speed resulted from comprehensive studies of various speeds and their attendant temperature costs on weight, complexity, reliability and cost of all the major systems and components. The changes in cost of the total airframe and engines, daily utilization and fuel costs were used in determining the effect of speed on operating costs. These data indicate that the operating costs remain nearly constant up to about Mach 2.7, but rise substantially above this speed. The chosen speed is also high enough to avoid early obsolescence without incurring excessive development risk."

 

[SCAT-15F]

File I have said that Cost was the driver.

"The choice of Mach 2.7 as the cruising speed resulted from comprehensive studies of various speeds and their attendant temperature costs on weight, complexity, reliability and cost of all the major systems and components. The changes in cost of the total airframe and engines, daily utilization and fuel costs were used in determining the effect of speed on operating costs. These data indicate that the operating costs remain nearly constant up to about Mach 2.7, but rise substantially above this speed. The chosen speed is also high enough to avoid early obsolescence without incurring excessive development risk."

Switching fuel types would definitely have increased cost. Airframe materials in the mach 2.7 to 3+ range would not have differed. Stainless steel or Titanium.

 

[hesham]

The SCAT-15F.

 

[hesham]

From Flight 1967.

 

[Archibald]

SCAT-15F was a sleek aerodynamic wonder...

 

[flateric]

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[hesham]

From Naval Aviation News 1960.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

https://i.redd.it/lockheed-l-2000-sst-mockup-v0-tfp0dm3oowva1.jpg?s=9131d48799c052b389fcaadccd61ce4309188187

www.reddit.com

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

https://flic.kr/p/5z76UQ

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jacksnell707/3000061996

 

[hesham]

From FAA Aviation News 1964.

 

[hesham]

From FAA Aviation News 1963,

I can't ID the aircraft in the middle ?!.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! SCAT-15F feasibility study by Boeing.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! SCAT-15F with horizontal tail stabilizer.

 

[Orionblamblam]

In progress.

 

[blackkite]

Douglas 2229 SST?

 

[hesham]

From American Aviation 1966.

 

[athpilot]

In progress.

View attachment 714848

Maybe for a new publication? I´m asking for a friend...

 

[Orionblamblam]

Maybe for a new publication? I´m asking for a friend...

A new US Transport Projects. Eventually.

 

[blackkite]

At last, at length, barely, finally........　

 

[hesham]

I don't know if we already sent it before or not,Boeing Model 733-197.

https://flic.kr/p/vmPheg

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/19269901049/in/photostream/

 

[hesham]

Hi,

https://flic.kr/p/7n9Umk

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/n303wr/4177524027/in/photolist-7n9Umk-nFYY11-7zWcyy-nEhr5S-nEhre9-nYybzH-nXpPPN-CntyWk-BHWS25-N3gZ56-CntyTz-EgF1xz-QzwbEy-vDgdcX-nFYJCv-nVtckG-nF2i1C-2222LsP-24hAN1s-27ReNk3-dxwRce-JfB1r9-nUJgKE-dYc8SR-Ke4Pey-BgoVCB-25k24Tc-2fWbJdt-C5mcE-oe6LX7-cTozES-29Wra5M-2oQv925-9vyCjp-2222LsZ-EJSJWj-nMK54M-6jChza-aESuQW-2kvgmMQ-NaQw3d-5MPhKW-5MRZn9-2cAsrhB-dczXWz-2mczjoq-2jzXaUz-nUJgKu-9vyCfg-2cmCHM/

 

[Arjen]

Flickr caption

Boeing SST

American Airlines image of then proposed US built (never got past mockup) Boeing Supersonic Transport.

Check search advice for SDASM image collection here:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/general-dynamics-convair-vtol-vstol-stol-projects.13474/#post-643486

 

[Archibald]

Hi! SCAT-15F feasibility study by Boeing.

May 1965. What is interesting is that Boeing briefly considered SCAT-15F again late 1968, after the 2707-200 death. For the 2707-300, kinda.

High-Speed Dreams

In High-Speed Dreams, Erik M. Conway constructs an insightful history that focuses primarily on the political and commercial factors responsible for the rise and fall of American supersonic transport research programs. Conway charts commercial supersonic research efforts through the changing...

books.google.fr

 

[blackkite]

I wish you a Happy New Year from the Far East.

Lockheed L-2000-7 SST Concept by Erik Simonsen

Lockheed L-2000-7 SST Concept Digital Art by Erik Simonsen

pixels.com

Lockheed Sst Design L 2000 - Ralph Crane - Google Arts & Culture

Google Arts & Culture features content from over 2000 leading museums and archives who have partnered with the Google Cultural Institute to bring the world's treasures online.

artsandculture.google.com

 

[blackkite]

Lockheed SST concepts before L2000.
Source : numbers station.

Big earthquake in Japan this evening.

 

[hesham]

From Hearing 1960.