TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

[Canardzz]

The build quality looks splendid. You can also see how the fasteners placement follows an arithmetic logic and not only the inspiration of someone playing with CAD. Their pitch and angular placement is also perfect meaning that each panel have a tight tolerance.

It is TAI's specialty

 

[Flyaway]

Stunning Images Of Turkey's TF-X Fifth-Gen Combat Aircraft Prototype In Assembly Line Mesmerizes Netizens

In a video that was made available to the public on November 23, the first prototype of Turkey's TF-X next-generation fighter can be seen in the assembly line. The aircraft is being developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries or TUSAS.

eurasiantimes.com

 

[Combat-Master]

This was pretty interesting, there are sorts of angled shapes connecting sections to the fuselage

 

[Combat-Master]

Haven't seen an image from the front side, thought I'd share this one - Also would like to see the openings for the cheek mounted AESA array radars at some point


Opening for the IRST window that's covered by the plaque in the above image

 

[martinbayer]

The canopy/windshield is a single piece, so what's the purpose of that (fake?) forward vertical frame?

 

[Combat-Master]

The canopy/windshield is a single piece, so what's the purpose of that (fake?) forward vertical frame?

The front section is thicker thus can withstand strikes, where as behind the frame it's thinner so shaped explosive can blast an opening easier - ejection seat/emergency exit. That frame basically holds the rigidity of the front section when the rear section has been blown out.

Here you can see J-20 (above) and F-35 (below) canopies with different methods of blasting a hole through the canopy also notice they both have frame between the front and rear section of the canopy above pilot

 

[Radonislav]

This was pretty interesting, there are sorts of angled shapes connecting sections to the fuselage
View attachment 687713
View attachment 687715
View attachment 687714

Serrated edges, good indication for stealth

 

[snne]

As far as I can see, the horizontal stabilizers of the TF-X (ie the rear wings) are not attached to the side as in the F-22, but from the rear, just like the F-35 and Su-57. I think it's an interesting detail, I'm looking forward to the final version.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595449110051655681

View: https://twitter.com/Saffet_Uyanik/status/1595449110051655681?t=xRwIf7AsaD0fumiWt1VKbQ&s=19

 

[Cjc]

Have to say really impressed, didn't think they would get even thus far.

 

[FighterJock]

Have to say really impressed, didn't think they would get even thus far.

Same here Cjc, especially when the first prototype is being built. I simply cannot wait to see it fly.

 

[Cannonfodder43]

This was pretty interesting, there are sorts of angled shapes connecting sections to the fuselage
View attachment 687713
View attachment 687715
View attachment 687714

Rather interesting that they have taken to giving some of the fuselage panels saw-tooth serrations.

Even on the F-22/35, such were restricted to maintenance hatches or any panel that is not unduly restricted by structural strength concerns.

Either that or such serrations are on the trailing edges of panel sections or on prominent assembly joints like radome/nose bulkhead joints.

 

[TomcatViP]

Let's not overreact to panel serration. It's probably only a test to see if manufacturing quality is up the challenge.

To me the edge profiles look like something drawn to be erratic (hence testing your contractors ability to follow quality).

 

[Combat-Master]

Lots of doodling on the wing, correct me if I'm wrong - but the wing was said to be entirely composite, correct ?

 

[snne]

This might be where the gun is placed. But I doubt it because I can't see a maintenance door.

 

[Canardzz]

Let's not overreact to panel serration. It's probably only a test to see if manufacturing quality is up the challenge.

To me the edge profiles look like something drawn to be erratic (hence testing your contractors ability to follow quality).

This theory makes sense. However there are no contractors to test. TAI has her own composite production centre. So they could be testing themselves? But likely not.

 

[Canardzz]

Lots of doodling on the wing, correct me if I'm wrong - but the wing was said to be entirely composite, correct ?

View attachment 687758

The wings are entirely out of composite, correct.

 

[datafuser]

This might be where the gun is placed. But I doubt it because I can't see a maintenance door.

View attachment 687765

Perhaps that can be a door to allow excess airflow to bypass the inlet.

 

[Trident]

Yes, my guess is BL spillway too, as the opening is present on both sides - I don't see why they'd go for two guns (the last fighters to do so would've been the Tornado IDS and Mirage 2000C?).

The panel edge serrations with non-uniform angle caught my eye as well, I don't think I've seen that anywhere else. Possibly TomcatVIP is correct, though as has been mentioned the entire thing is made in-house, and I could think of quicker ways of testing fit & quality than a full-scale airframe. That said, such manufacturing joints are serrated on the F-22/35 as well, in fact more consistently so than on the TFX here. Like the Su-57 some spanwise edges lack serrations.

Another unusual thing to me is that the wing skins aren't monolithic, there are separate inner and outer panels.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

This might be where the gun is placed. But I doubt it because I can't see a maintenance door.

View attachment 687765

Yes, my guess is BL spillway too, as the opening is present on both sides - I don't see why they'd go for two guns (the last fighters to do so would've been the Tornado IDS and Mirage 2000C?).

The panel edge serrations with non-uniform angle caught my eye as well, I don't think I've seen that anywhere else. Possibly TomcatVIP is correct, though as has been mentioned the entire thing is made in-house, and I could think of quicker ways of testing fit & quality than a full-scale airframe. That said, such manufacturing joints are serrated on the F-22/35 as well, in fact more consistently so than on the TFX here. Like the Su-57 some spanwise edges lack serrations.

Another unusual thing to me is that the wing skins aren't monolithic, there are separate inner and outer panels.

Yes, that is the boundary layer flow spill duct. You'll find similar ducts on F/A-18s or Boramae. Though I'm surprised to see it visible like that; F-22 had it covered with LO structure. Maybe it'll change for the block 0 FTP.


It's no.24 on the schematic. As you can see 5th gen fighters apply a LO structure on those spill ducts as it causes edge refractions.

 

[Radonislav]

This was pretty interesting, there are sorts of angled shapes connecting sections to the fuselage
View attachment 687713
View attachment 687715
View attachment 687714

Rather interesting that they have taken to giving some of the fuselage panels saw-tooth serrations.

Even on the F-22/35, such were restricted to maintenance hatches or any panel that is not unduly restricted by structural strength concerns.

Either that or such serrations are on the trailing edges of panel sections or on prominent assembly joints like radome/nose bulkhead joints.

it could be that the places where we see intereseting serrations could have other effects, like reflection from other surfaces.

imo they did this after running simulations

 

[Radonislav]

This might be where the gun is placed. But I doubt it because I can't see a maintenance door.

View attachment 687765

Yes, my guess is BL spillway too, as the opening is present on both sides - I don't see why they'd go for two guns (the last fighters to do so would've been the Tornado IDS and Mirage 2000C?).

The panel edge serrations with non-uniform angle caught my eye as well, I don't think I've seen that anywhere else. Possibly TomcatVIP is correct, though as has been mentioned the entire thing is made in-house, and I could think of quicker ways of testing fit & quality than a full-scale airframe. That said, such manufacturing joints are serrated on the F-22/35 as well, in fact more consistently so than on the TFX here. Like the Su-57 some spanwise edges lack serrations.

Another unusual thing to me is that the wing skins aren't monolithic, there are separate inner and outer panels.

Yes, that is the boundary layer flow spill duct. You'll find similar ducts on F/A-18s or Boramae. Though I'm surprised to see it visible like that; F-22 had it covered with LO structure. Maybe it'll change for the block 0 FTP.

View attachment 687806
It's no.24 on the schematic. As you can see 5th gen fighters apply a LO structure on those spill ducts as it causes edge refractions.

it could get a cover-up later in the assembly

 

[Radonislav]

Yes, my guess is BL spillway too, as the opening is present on both sides - I don't see why they'd go for two guns (the last fighters to do so would've been the Tornado IDS and Mirage 2000C?).

The panel edge serrations with non-uniform angle caught my eye as well, I don't think I've seen that anywhere else. Possibly TomcatVIP is correct, though as has been mentioned the entire thing is made in-house, and I could think of quicker ways of testing fit & quality than a full-scale airframe. That said, such manufacturing joints are serrated on the F-22/35 as well, in fact more consistently so than on the TFX here. Like the Su-57 some spanwise edges lack serrations.

Another unusual thing to me is that the wing skins aren't monolithic, there are separate inner and outer panels.

i thought F-22/F-35 dont have spanwise serrations too?

 

[Combat-Master]

Guessing those openings are for the APU intake

APU being developed for TFX by TRMOTOR


F22 APU

View: https://youtu.be/U9l_NnvsB-g?t=50

 

[Maro.Kyo]

it could get a cover-up later in the assembly

True, there are rivet holes along the contour of the spill duct which may point towards such.

 

[Radonislav]

possible TF-X weapons bays, guessed from bulkheads

TF-X bulkhead

F-22 bulkhead

 

[Radonislav]

Yes, my guess is BL spillway too, as the opening is present on both sides - I don't see why they'd go for two guns (the last fighters to do so would've been the Tornado IDS and Mirage 2000C?).

The panel edge serrations with non-uniform angle caught my eye as well, I don't think I've seen that anywhere else. Possibly TomcatVIP is correct, though as has been mentioned the entire thing is made in-house, and I could think of quicker ways of testing fit & quality than a full-scale airframe. That said, such manufacturing joints are serrated on the F-22/35 as well, in fact more consistently so than on the TFX here. Like the Su-57 some spanwise edges lack serrations.

Another unusual thing to me is that the wing skins aren't monolithic, there are separate inner and outer panels.

i thought F-22/F-35 dont have spanwise serrations too?
View attachment 687810

I couldn't spot any spanwise serrations after looking to hundreds of F-35 and F-22 photos, I am convinced that stealth aircraft don't have spanwise serrations


Edit: Su-57 does not have much serrated edges lengthwise, TF-X without construction/composite panels not being covered have more serrated edges bruh

 

[Combat-Master]

Analyst has been told by TAI officials that TFX will have engine and landings gears installed by end of December

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD44-IdB7uc

 

[Canardzz]

 

[Canardzz]

 

[Trident]

i thought F-22/F-35 dont have spanwise serrations too?

Sure they do, in fact your picture is full of them! But when comparing to an uncoated airframe under assembly, a photo of a finished aircraft with several layers of coating obscuring many of the panel joints is not ideal.

I couldn't spot any spanwise serrations after looking to hundreds of F-35 and F-22 photos, I am convinced that stealth aircraft don't have spanwise serrations

You must have been looking for the wrong thing then. Since there appears to be a comprehension problem and a picture says more than a thousand words, let's look at the TFX, without even getting into the F-22/35:

- Green: Longitudinal panel joints, ok without serrations.
- Blue: LERX leading edge or panel joints aligned with it, also ok.
- Magenta: Wing trailing edge or panel joints aligned with it, ok too.
- Red: Spanwise panel joints with serrations, ok obviously.
- Cyan: Spanwise panel joints without serrations, you don't see that on the F-22 or F-35.

And yeah, the Su-57 does the same thing. Is it a problem, could there be a different solution? Sure, I'm not an RF expert - but you'd have to wonder what Sukhoi & TAI know that Lockheed-Martin, of all people, have missed?

 

[Radonislav]

i thought F-22/F-35 dont have spanwise serrations too?

Sure they do, in fact your picture is full of them! But when comparing to an uncoated airframe under assembly, a photo of a finished aircraft with several layers of coating obscuring many of the panel joints is not ideal.

I couldn't spot any spanwise serrations after looking to hundreds of F-35 and F-22 photos, I am convinced that stealth aircraft don't have spanwise serrations

You must have been looking for the wrong thing then. Since there appears to be a comprehension problem and a picture says more than a thousand words, let's look at the TFX, without even getting into the F-22/35:

- Green: Longitudinal panel joints, ok without serrations.
- Blue: LERX leading edge or panel joints aligned with it, also ok.
- Magenta: Wing trailing edge or panel joints aligned with it, ok too.
- Red: Spanwise panel joints with serrations, ok obviously.
- Cyan: Spanwise panel joints without serrations, you don't see that on the F-22 or F-35.

And yeah, the Su-57 does the same thing. Is it a problem, could there be a different solution? Sure, I'm not an RF expert - but you'd have to wonder what Sukhoi & TAI know that Lockheed-Martin, of all people, have missed?

Wait, I was referring to spanwise edges, "tooth" looking to sides, and by lengthwise I meant edges looking lengthwise

 

[Radonislav]

i thought F-22/F-35 dont have spanwise serrations too?

Sure they do, in fact your picture is full of them! But when comparing to an uncoated airframe under assembly, a photo of a finished aircraft with several layers of coating obscuring many of the panel joints is not ideal.

I couldn't spot any spanwise serrations after looking to hundreds of F-35 and F-22 photos, I am convinced that stealth aircraft don't have spanwise serrations

You must have been looking for the wrong thing then. Since there appears to be a comprehension problem and a picture says more than a thousand words, let's look at the TFX, without even getting into the F-22/35:

- Green: Longitudinal panel joints, ok without serrations.
- Blue: LERX leading edge or panel joints aligned with it, also ok.
- Magenta: Wing trailing edge or panel joints aligned with it, ok too.
- Red: Spanwise panel joints with serrations, ok obviously.
- Cyan: Spanwise panel joints without serrations, you don't see that on the F-22 or F-35.

And yeah, the Su-57 does the same thing. Is it a problem, could there be a different solution? Sure, I'm not an RF expert - but you'd have to wonder what Sukhoi & TAI know that Lockheed-Martin, of all people, have missed?

So the real problem comes from cyan part not being a panel

You do see serration on forward fuselage and main body, but they do have a panel over them. Aft -on the other hand- doesn't have a panel, it is not connected by a panel

 

[Radonislav]

Here, you can see that Mid body-Aft connection doesn't have serration

 

[helmutkohl]

on the topic of serration, which parts of the aircraft should have those zig zag edges?
quite obviously on the TFX, F-35, etc not every part is serrated.

 

[Radonislav]

on the topic of serration, which parts of the aircraft should have those zig zag edges?
quite obviously on the TFX, F-35, etc not every part is serrated.

Only panels, as you can see from TF-X, and F-35 production line. (By panel I mean something that can be opened and closed, or taken out for inspection without much complication, like Radome's and access panels/hatches)

TF-X has serrations for front to mid connection because there is a panel over it

For composite panels which don't have any gaps or openings between them do not feature serration, same with F-35/F-22

in the end, if a cutout is present, then there must be serrations, if not, you don't need to

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

on the topic of serration, which parts of the aircraft should have those zig zag edges?
quite obviously on the TFX, F-35, etc not every part is serrated.

Only panels, as you can see from TF-X, and F-35 production line. (By panel I mean something that can be opened and closed, or taken out for inspection without much complication, like Radome's and access panels/hatches)

TF-X has serrations for front to mid connection because there is a panel over it

For composite panels which don't have any gaps or openings between them do not feature serration, same with F-35/F-22

in the end, if a cutout is present, then there must be serrations, if not, you don't need to

Yes. If the join isn't going to open you can treat it with materials to bridge over the discontinuity. If the join is a panel which needs to open regularly in the air e.g landing gear or weapons bay it needs to be aligned for sure. If it opens regularly on the ground e.g. access panels, either it has to be aligned or treated before flight, which greatly increases maintenance times.

 

[Canardzz]

Not groundbreaking or anything... But these are the slots the actuators will go into.

 

[Combat-Master]

Separation distance from both engines further confirms that TFX will have a tandem internal weapons bay

Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.

[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]

View attachment 687018
I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.

They used your size comparison image on Turkish TV BTW

View: https://youtu.be/DD44-IdB7uc?t=705

 

[PringleiPrick]

Separation distance from both engines further confirms that TFX will have a tandem internal weapons bay

Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.

[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]

View attachment 687018
I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.

They used your diagram on Turkish TV BTW

View: https://youtu.be/DD44-IdB7uc?t=705

Ahahah yeah I noticed. Wish I put more effort into it now

 

[PringleiPrick]

Not groundbreaking or anything... But these are the slots the actuators will go into.

View attachment 687925
View attachment 687926
View attachment 687927

Any ideas on why they went with classic hydraulics instead of electro-hydraulic actuators? (F-22 uses hydraulics, F-35 uses EU and EHAs)