TAI TF-X / Milli Muharip Uçak MMU Kaan

Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.
[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]
fifthgenfighters.jpg
I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.
 
Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.
[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]
View attachment 687018
I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.
Stellar work. Got it confirmed to a friend over at TAI a month ago. The aircraft is indeed going to be 21 meters in length.


EDIT: Rest in peace to everyone who perished today. Shouldn't have happened...
 
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Approximate dimensions of the actual TF-X, derived from Canardzz' estimate and pics from Anatolian Eagle 2021.
[...]

This finally ends discussions regarding the actual length of the aircraft. Not 19 meters like the mock-up, but 21 meters. Just by looking at the photos above and some earlier (& not so well known) renders, we can see that the frontal fuselage is now starting to look a lot like the F-35.

EDIT: As I was saying that, the new photo shared didn't make the cockpit look that large. Slightly larger than the mock-up still. TAI might be playing their secrecy game again. We will find out soon enough.

[...]
View attachment 687018
I eyeballed the dimensions relative to the J-20, so take this with a massive grain of salt. Personally, I think it might be a little smaller in terms of height and length, maybe a little closer to the Su-57. In terms of wingspan, it's likely closest to the F-22, probably a little bigger.
In terms of size, F-15C is the most closest to it; or, if we're looking for a comparison from the current TurAF inventory, F-4E 2020's.

Basically it's a stealthy F-15EX which is more than enough for Turkey's needs.

It's design elements remind me of not only the American 5th gens but also the Su-57. The stabilizers are like that of the F-35, the overall fuselage shape is just like that of an F-22 with a slight LERX, and the weapon bays are like that of the Su-57 or the YF-23.

60dd81f047f7d.jpg
 
In terms of size, F-15C is the most closest to it; or, if we're looking for a comparison from the current TurAF inventory, F-4E 2020's.

Basically it's a stealthy F-15EX which is more than enough for Turkey's needs.

It's design elements remind me of not only the American 5th gens but also the Su-57. The stabilizers are like that of the F-35, the overall fuselage shape is just like that of an F-22 with a slight LERX, and the weapon bays are like that of the Su-57 or the YF-23.
Hmm, so this implies that the length is about 19m? It's good to keep everyone else guessing, I suppose.

I also saw some similarities to the Su-57. A disappointing one is the clear visibility of the nozzles from the side. Not great for IR.

A few other observations and questions:
- large distance between the two nozzles—reminiscent of the Tomcat. Maybe with some clever software we can do a bit of split throttle trickery for enhanced maneuverability.
- prominent S-duct (nice)
- can't tell if IRST is round (less stealthy, like in the promo renders) or faceted (like the EOTS, more stealthy)
- can't tell if nozzles are LO. Are we really going to use the same non-LO C/D nozzles that are on F-16s for GTU-0? GE was able to retrofit axisymmetric LO nozzles to the F110 back in the late 90s with the F-16 LO Axi Nozzle program. Fingers crossed we see something like this:
lonozzle.jpg

W.r.t. to calling the TF-X a stealthy F-15EX is selling it a bit short, in my opinion. I think you're right in terms of flight dynamics: similar thrust engines (Block 1), approx. same size, probably similar weight if we take into account TF-X' extensive use of composites. However, its tech will almost certainly exceed the F-15EX: built-in EOTS and IRST, DAS, larger GaN AESA, HMD only (no HUD, a la F-35)... At least, I hope it will.
 
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In terms of size, F-15C is the most closest to it; or, if we're looking for a comparison from the current TurAF inventory, F-4E 2020's.

Basically it's a stealthy F-15EX which is more than enough for Turkey's needs.

It's design elements remind me of not only the American 5th gens but also the Su-57. The stabilizers are like that of the F-35, the overall fuselage shape is just like that of an F-22 with a slight LERX, and the weapon bays are like that of the Su-57 or the YF-23.
Hmm, so this implies that the length is about 19m? It's good to keep everyone else guessing, I suppose.

I also saw some similarities to the Su-57. A disappointing one is the clear visibility of the nozzles from the side. Not great for IR.

A few other observations and questions:
- large distance between the two nozzles—reminiscent of the Tomcat. Maybe with some clever software we can do a bit of split throttle trickery for enhanced maneuverability.
- prominent S-duct (nice)
- can't tell if IRST is round (less stealthy, like in the promo renders) or faceted (like the EOTS, more stealthy)
- can't tell if nozzles are LO. Are we really going to use the same non-LO C/D nozzles that are on F-16s for GTU-0? GE was able to retrofit axisymmetric LO nozzles to the F110 back in the late 90s with the F-16 LO Axi Nozzle program. Fingers crossed we see something like this:
View attachment 687162

W.r.t. to calling the TF-X a stealthy F-15EX is selling it a bit short, in my opinion. I think you're right in terms of flight dynamics: similar thrust engines (Block 1), approx. same size, probably similar weight if we take into account TF-X' extensive use of composites. However, its tech will almost certainly exceed the F-15EX: built-in EOTS and IRST, DAS, larger GaN AESA, HMD only (no HUD, a la F-35)... At least, I hope it will.
-The length is 21m.
-That design dates back to 2021 as you said. The IRST has since received stealth treatment. It's not round by any means.

Screen Shot 2022-07-21 at 13.34.36-2.png

-You're right about the no HUD thing.
 
-There is a chance of TAI higher ups and TF-X appearing on TV this month or in December.

-I also got confirmation of some systems (Radar, IRST, EOTS and some others) not being present in GTU-0 but crucial systems will be installed.

-Higher ups and people whom I chatted with are pretty sure for TF-X rollout in 2023 and first flight in 2025 if no major delays related to politics happen (external)


Sadly that's all I can share
 
Ismail Demir: The assembly of the first prototype of the domestic fifth-generation fighter TF-X has been completed. Tomorrow we will show it to the public. The fighter consists of 33% of domestic systems, but this figure will increase over time. On March 18, the fighter will leave the hangar with the engine running. 20221122_212246.jpg
 
this is a complete reversal to what TAI general manager said last year, which was no footage will be taken of the TFX assembly facility. :D
There never was a set policy in place. It probably was an order that came directly from the top. Incredibly happy nevertheless.
 
Is this a subscale demonstrator or more? Interesting, love looking forward to reveals.
it is a real aircraft, but won't have some tech like EOs, Radar, it will have the critical and necessary avionics.

First flight prototype will have more tech and there on it will get more and more
 
Is this a subscale demonstrator or more? Interesting, love looking forward to reveals.
it is a real aircraft, but won't have some tech like EOs, Radar, it will have the critical and necessary avionics.

First flight prototype will have more tech and there on it will get more and more


Now I'm confused? So this one which will be unveiled today is not the "First flight prototype"? What is it then, something like the Su-57's T-50-KNS?
 
Is this a subscale demonstrator or more? Interesting, love looking forward to reveals.
it is a real aircraft, but won't have some tech like EOs, Radar, it will have the critical and necessary avionics.

First flight prototype will have more tech and there on it will get more and more


Now I'm confused? So this one which will be unveiled today is not the "First flight prototype"? What is it then, something like the Su-57's T-50-KNS?
It will be able to taxi and potentially fly.
 
Is this a subscale demonstrator or more? Interesting, love looking forward to reveals.
it is a real aircraft, but won't have some tech like EOs, Radar, it will have the critical and necessary avionics.

First flight prototype will have more tech and there on it will get more and more


Now I'm confused? So this one which will be unveiled today is not the "First flight prototype"? What is it then, something like the Su-57's T-50-KNS?
No, it will be like what YF-22 is to the F-22A.
 
Is this a subscale demonstrator or more? Interesting, love looking forward to reveals.
it is a real aircraft, but won't have some tech like EOs, Radar, it will have the critical and necessary avionics.

First flight prototype will have more tech and there on it will get more and more


Now I'm confused? So this one which will be unveiled today is not the "First flight prototype"? What is it then, something like the Su-57's T-50-KNS?
Depends on what TAI wants, I didn't get a clear cut answer from them


But it will taxi and do ground tests for sure
 
Now I'm confused? So this one which will be unveiled today is not the "First flight prototype"? What is it then, something like the Su-57's T-50-KNS?
Remember, CDR of that aircraft still isn't complete and will not be complete until a few months after the roll out, according to TAI's schedules.

That said, having a ground test vehicle with similar structures and weight distribution built and tested before the CDR could help accelerate the EMD phase.
 
Place for IRST: (attachment shows the design for IRST sitting place)
Screenshot_2022-11-24-11-22-19-008_com.twitter.android.jpg
You can see the place for IRST is present, it will be interesting to see a fighter with both IRST and EOTS, if both can be used for A2A, would it be able calculate range better?


Here from the belly you can see TF-X weapons bay (?), I have actually never seen underside/belly of TF-X so I am speculating there
Screenshot_2022-11-24-16-36-18-026_com.twitter.android~3.jpg
 

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The build quality looks splendid. You can also see how the fasteners placement follows an arithmetic logic and not only the inspiration of someone playing with CAD. Their pitch and angular placement is also perfect meaning that each panel has a tight tolerance.
 
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