Sukhoi PAK FA news and speculation (T-50, I-21) Part II [2008-2009]

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I like this depiction. I'm curious though: What prevents the compressor from being accessible to front-aspect radar?
 
Shape of the air tubes inside the plane for example. Many current stealthy fighters have this tubes directed upward and to the centerline, because their way goes usually around the internal bomb bay. If it is not enough, you can also use some kind of shading device just in front of the engine. This kind of system is already used by F/A-18E/F Superhornets.
 

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...little bit better photos

radar blockers: looking from the rear



looking from the front



schematics



flame holder + radar blocker(?) behind it



flame holder as is

 
Okay, very neat. ;)

It seems that I'm a few years out of date. ;D

thanks for the answer.
 
At july 18 there was no PAK-FA public demonstration:( Lets hope for the August 16!
 
medal64 said:
At july 18 there was no PAK-FA public demonstration:( Lets hope for the August 16!



And to be honest ... (at least following all offical reports) ... no-one expected it to be shown today !

Deino
 
passing the date
now look for Aug, 16
 
I wonder if PAK-FA will be shown on August 16 to the media, why they won't display even a model at Maks?

In my opinion if they won't display anything about the PAK-FA at Maks-2009,waiting to see it on August 16 is a dream!
 
I think the reason that there is no necessity to carry from Komsomolsk na Amure a prototype to Moscow when it is possible to show it directly at factory.
 
Not to mention, there simply isn't any need for them to show it. The people who need to know already know. Once it starts flying, then it becomes hard to hide and probably too costly to do so, so you might as well show it at that time.
 
Russia and India have identified the characteristics of fifth generation fighter


Russia and India have identified the tactical-technical characteristics of prospective fifth-generation fighter, which will be developed jointly by the two countries. Currently, the parties shall consult on the allocation of work. As reported by RIA Novosti, said Director of the "Rosoboronexport" Alexander Mikheyev in an interview with the publication of "arms" to be published next week.

Mikheyev said that the work comes within the framework of an intergovernmental protocol, which stipulates the basic principles of relationships, including sharing of work, mode of financing and delivery dates. He also commented on the possible competition in the market of arms from the U.S. fifth generation fighter F-35: "Considering that the world market for combat aircraft is limited, of course, we see F-35 as a competitor and a very serious competitor."

Nevertheless, according to Mikheeva, the United States, and Russia is the traditional market segments, and the rivalry between the two countries in the dramatic form is not expressed. Russian forward fighter, as the head of "Rosoboronexport", will not assign the F-35 on the tactical and technical characteristics, with substantially lower cost.

Recall that the development of forward-looking set of front-line aviation aircraft (PAK FA) is a number of domestic design bureau in the late 1980's. He must replace the MiG-29 and Su-27.The first flight of the machine, tentatively to be held in 2009.

Russia also signed an agreement with India that the two countries will jointly develop a fifth generation fighter aircraft.The Russian Air Force plans to adopt a single option, and the Indian Air Force looked at the double.

Source: news agency "Lenta.Ru"
Published: 30.07.2009, 15:33
 
what a cliffhanger :(

still doesn't satisfy the question on everybody's mind of when OH when
 
three independent sources say that we can dismiss till the end of the year
disappointed? well, just look at Dreamliner delays!
 
Im not suprised. I think the biggest reason is funding but also technical issues can be too!

I couldn't understand, if it wouldn't fly at August 16, how would they demonstrate it to the world media? Static display on a runway, or a demonstration ceremony under the flying aircrafts:)? I think if they want to demonstrate this aircraft to the media, it must be flying! If it's not ready to fly, its impossible to see it at August 16!
 
medal64 said:
I couldn't understand, if it wouldn't fly at August 16, how would they demonstrate it to the world media? Static display on a runway, or a demonstration ceremony under the flying aircrafts:)? I think if they want to demonstrate this aircraft to the media, it must be flying! If it's not ready to fly, its impossible to see it at August 16!

Think or remember how the B-2 was presented for the first time, think or remember how the MiG 1.44 was presented for the first time, think or remember how almost any current military aircraft was presented for the first time and then you will have the clean answer about the static display/flying aircraft. Yes, Russians/Soviets had the tradition to present their machines after they passed the maiden flight, but this in not true in every case anymore.

So far I cant see any reliable source that can say the date of the declassification, so everything here is a pure speculation. Not to mention the possibility, that the exact date was not set yet.
 
Matej said:
medal64 said:
I couldn't understand, if it wouldn't fly at August 16, how would they demonstrate it to the world media? Static display on a runway, or a demonstration ceremony under the flying aircrafts:)? I think if they want to demonstrate this aircraft to the media, it must be flying! If it's not ready to fly, its impossible to see it at August 16!

Think or remember how the B-2 was presented for the first time, think or remember how the MiG 1.44 was presented for the first time, think or remember how almost any current military aircraft was presented for the first time and then you will have the clean answer about the static display/flying aircraft. Yes, Russians/Soviets had the tradition to present their machines after they passed the maiden flight, but this in not true in every case anymore.

So far I cant see any reliable source that can say the date of the declassification, so everything here is a pure speculation. Not to mention the possibility, that the exact date was not set yet.

But I would like to remember you that if it will display at airforce day, there will be flying aircrafts! So it can be little strange that we created the world's most advanced fighter aircraft but it's unable to fly!

I hope they make us a suprise:)
 
Suprise:)

Fifth-generation aircraft entered service in the Russian Air Force in 2015


By 2015, Russia adopted the Air Force received the fifth-generation aircraft, reported to head the Air Force Colonel General Alexander Zelina.

"In the short term (by 2015) weapons system tactical aircraft the Air Force will have a run at the present time, armed with a fourth-generation aviation systems, aviation systems modernized generation 4 + and 4 + +, as well as promising fifth-generation aircraft systems," - said head.

Zelina also said that "in the second half of 2009, the aircraft went on test flights."

Speaking about the main characteristics of new aircraft, Zelina stated that "it will become a reality sverhmanevrennost, intellectualization high side, the circular information field, low visibility, vserakursny firing purposes."

"Among the qualities of military aircraft should be noted multichannel use of weapons, the possibility of a simultaneous attack of several air targets and ground precision weapons, a powerful set of on-board defense, high efficiency and safety", - said Russian military aircraft head.

Distinctive features of prospective aviation complex of new generation will versatility (ability to meet the challenges of defeat both air and ground targets in all weather and time of day); sverhmanevrennost (possibility to make controlled flight at low speeds and high angles of attack), low visibility in the optical, infrared and radar wavelengths, the ability to take off, and sit down, using parts of runway length of 300-400 meters.

Combat aircraft of the new generation will be able to make long flights at supersonic speeds with multiple refueling in the air, have a new electronics and maximum automation of the flight, Interfax reports.

Source: Newspaper «View»
Published: 05.08.2009, 11:31
 
"Source: newspaper" ...what else we can expect ::)

sverhmanevrennost = supermaneuverability
vserakursny firing purposes = omnirange weapon fire
intellectualization high side = I don't have any idea what this was in original
 
Second source;

Fifth-generation aircraft entered service VVS Russia until 2015

Moscow.August 5. INTERFAX.RU - fifth-generation aircraft by 2015 will be armed with the Air Force of Russia, told reporters on Wednesday, head Air Force Colonel General Alexander Zelina. He also said that "in the second half of 2009, the aircraft went on test flights."
 
Hi, Matej!

Matej said:
sverhmanevrennost = supermaneuverability
vserakursny firing purposes = omnirange weapon fire
intellectualization high side = I don't have any idea what this was in original

Just found the Russian text of the article (http://vz.ru/news/2009/8/5/314529.html).
Perhaps during translation some terms have been changed unintentionally.

Thus "intellectualization high side" (высокая интеллектуализация борта) means "high level of avionics artificial Intelligence"
"vserakursny firing purposes" (всеракурсный обстрел целей) means "omnidirectional firing on targets".

By the way, the name of Russian VVS commander-in-chief is Aleksandr Zelin (not Zelina)

Hope, this would be a useful addition.

Regard!
 
seems that Zelin have started to smoke the same stuff as Mikhailov did...
 
18:33 07/08/2009

MOSCOW, Aug. 7 - RIA Novosti, Alexander Kovalev. Leading specialists in aerodynamics from the whole world going on Aviation salon MAKS-2009, which will be held from 18 to 23 August at the airport named Leah Gromov in Zhukovsky near Moscow, to familiarize producers with the latest aviation scientific advances in the design of supersonic aircraft, said in an interview with RIA Novosti member Council under the President of the Russian Federation for Science and High Technology, academician Vladimir Fortov.

Flights to sverhzvuke in a cloud of plasma

"As part of the MAKS-2009 for the first time in Russia will be held international conference FLUCOME-2009 on the aerodynamics. Until Russia Similar events were held only in the United States, China and Japan. That it will be on flights for hypersound", - told the agency interlocutor.

Max has a great moral and political significance - Fortov

"Civil aviation continues to fly at subsonic speeds, and there are objective reasons. But the future - for hypersound, and the task of science - to remove existing restrictions in this field. One of them - control airplane at high speeds when the steering elements of the wings and tail feathers are very heavy loads because of the powerful free-pressure air stream ", - explained the academician.

Plasma flow in a supersonic wing

"One of the ideas born in Russia (and here we have a fairly high priority), is that during the flight to sverhzvuke wing to create a flow of plasma. The free-air enters the area of electric discharge becomes ionized gas, which can be controlled under the influence of the magnetic field. This difficult, but chained to the development of great interest not only here but also abroad: Western and Russian manufacturers are very interested and have already begun to finance these developments, "- noted Fortov.

How to manage "plazmoletom?"

He described how this aircraft can operate.

"You can imagine it like this: when you sit down to a normal flight, you can see the wing, where there are controls: Ailerons, flaps, etc., moved with the help of levers and hydraulics. And when you go to sverhzvuk, efforts to will need to attach to these elements, because of air resistance is extremely high, and not every hydraulic system with the right "- he said.

"Withdrawal is that, for example, the front edge of the wing, you can artificially create a plasma discharge. He even visually could be considered as free-flow of air acquires other properties and will be lit. Managing this flow, you can confidently manage and own a plane" - confident Acad.

According to him, the second area being developed by Russian scientists, is to create a straight air-breathing aircraft engine does not require, unlike the current sample set the compressor and turbine. Experts now understand how to control the turbulent combustion of fuel in a supersonic flow.On this subject already promising developments, and not only for the needs of aviation, but also to create a new generation of cruise missiles.

In aerodynamics Russia - to key positions

Fortov reported that Russian scientists will present at the MAKS-2009

"When specialists choose a place in the world where they meet at the conference, they necessarily take account of how a high level on this issue in a particular country: it is the most important criterion, otherwise they simply will not come. The idea of this: as many practitioners arriving at the MAKS-2009 from around the world to read and with the fundamental ideas that have not yet implemented, but can change the entire face of aviation. Research in the field of aerodynamics, combustion, mechanics, composite materials - this is an area where Russian Scientists continue to occupy a worthy position in the world ", - assured Vladimir Fortov.

Interest "Sukhoy: Fighter 5 th generation, and not only

According to Vladimir Fortova, the latest developments of Russian scientists in the field of aerodynamics especially interested in the head of the company "Sukhoi".

"Mikhail Pogosyan Aslanovich, Corresponding Member of Russian Academy of Sciences, one of the most naukolyubivoy part of the aviation community. It is truly interested in the new composite materials, and supports our research, although this is not his direct responsibility. It's no secret that this is now the most popular trend in military aviation is to make the fighter 5 th generation of funds for low radar enemy. It is a complex problem, and it is linked not only with themselves radiopogloschayuschimi coatings, but also the aerodynamics of a fighter, "- said Academician Fortov.

It will not be like "Stealth"

"Dry" has a great deal of attention to research in the field of aerodynamics and radiopogloschayuschim cover. Developing a company "Sukhoi" fighter 5 th generation will not have "chooped form the fuselage, as American planes invisible, made on technology Stealth", but be sure to cover radiopogloschayuschee will assure members of the Presidency of the Russian Federation for Science and High Technology Vladimir Fortov.

Композиты для SuperJet-100 и МС-21 Composites for the SuperJet-100 and MC-21

He said the company "Sukhoi" very carefully and creatively applies to research conducted by the Russian Academy of Sciences.In particular, the draft of a new regional plane Superjet-100 in the composite materials also took place in the testing of one of the institutions of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

Much attention is being paid at present the latest development of the domestic aviakostruktorov - civilian aircraft next generation of MS-21.

Air show MAKS-2009: Mecca for professionals and a holiday for young people

According to academician Vladimir Fortova, MAKS-2009 air show in Zhukovsky is important not only for world-class manufacturing companies and aircraft from around the world. Equally important is his moral and political significance: the citizens of the country can come to the airfield on Saturday and Sunday, 22 and 23 August to show their children the latest achievements of world aviation, and the best pilots.

"I say so because, at each air show in Zhukovsky I meet boys and girls with burning eyes, genuinely enthusiastic aviation. They look at the latest generation of aviation, and see the people who created all this. It is a huge boost to self-identity: I does know that, as grown at a military airfield near Moscow campus, and the age of three with his own eyes saw the test aircraft, which had impressed on me for life. Our young people must know that apart from time with TV and view the "Chornukhi "to pour out on the screens every day, there is great science, which leads the world forward, and I think it is very important, hence the importance of MAKS air show for the education of future generations of aviators is difficult to overestimate," - concluded Vladimir Fortov.
 
medal64 said:
18:33 07/08/2009

MOSCOW, Aug. 7 - RIA Novosti, Alexander Kovalev. Leading specialists in aerodynamics from the whole world going on Aviation salon MAKS-2009, which

Plasma flow in a supersonic wing

"One of the ideas born in Russia (and here we have a fairly high priority), is that during the flight to sverhzvuke wing to create a flow of plasma. The free-air enters the area of electric discharge becomes ionized gas, which can be controlled under the influence of the magnetic field. This difficult, but chained to the development of great interest not only here but also abroad: Western and Russian manufacturers are very interested and have already begun to finance these developments, "- noted Fortov.

How to manage "plazmoletom?"

He described how this aircraft can operate.

"You can imagine it like this: when you sit down to a normal flight, you can see the wing, where there are controls: Ailerons, flaps, etc., moved with the help of levers and hydraulics. And when you go to sverhzvuk, efforts to will need to attach to these elements, because of air resistance is extremely high, and not every hydraulic system with the right "- he said.

"Withdrawal is that, for example, the front edge of the wing, you can artificially create a plasma discharge. He even visually could be considered as free-flow of air acquires other properties and will be lit. Managing this flow, you can confidently manage and own a plane" - confident Acad.

I had a friend who was working on this back in 1986-87. How new is new? Although, I know he was doing it to modify/control a flowfield, I can't say it was specifically for a supersonic aircraft.
 
I think that they mean original American approach, where absolutely everything was conformed to the stealth technologies, like the flying flatiron F-117 or the flying whale Tacit Blue. They mean that there are also other priorities to the fighter, that cant be sacrificed to stealth, simply because it is too ineffective. This approach is close to the (west) European style of thinking: apply the reasonable level of stealth where it is usefull, but don't forget also to other things.
 
I think they're trying to say that they are relying more on RAM and RAS and less on faceting and continuous curvature.
 
But we shouldn't forget that the latest stealth aircraft B2 bomber has the curvature stealth body, not sharp turns!
 
medal64 said:
...the latest stealth aircraft B2 bomber...

Are you talking about the same plane, that celebrated its 20th anniversary of roll-out and another 10 years from the start of its development? I am not catching your point somehow, but lets say that the B-2 looks how it looks, because it is shaped according to the Gaussian curves, because they were easy to compute in that time (the kind of technology developed for the Tacit Blue, when the Northrop's engineers realized, that they cant use faceted surface). The current technology allows you to compute the RCS of any shape, so in this case you are free in the design.

What Sean and I wanted to say is that the shape of the PAK FA will not be a compromise to achieve the lowest possible probability of the detection by the enemy anti-aircraft defense, but it will also reflects other important factors that probably increase that probability, but will be equally compensated by other benefits (aerodynamic clearance, maneuverability, etc....).
 
Here is a nice video about stealth but it says B2 is a new design of stealth;

http://www.aviapedia.com/bombers/stealth-technology
 
medal64 said:
Here is a nice video about stealthy aircrafts but it displays B2 as a new design;

http://www.aviapedia.com/bombers/stealth-technology
 
basing on previous information:

it will somehow resemble a YF-23 and maybe an Su-27(34??)

and now they're talking about incorporating plasma stealth.

this makes me imagine that they'll be using plasma stealth(or RAM) to mask externally mounted missiles, etc.; a plane that will most likely end up like a cross bred F-18 and Su-27 with internal missile storage; a combination of OLS and active cancellation(plasma stealth); a fighter with an AI as co-pilot

but anyway, I'm just hoping it will be in line with those ;D
 
saintkatanalegacy said:
a fighter with an AI as co-pilot
information fusion, but not AI co-piloting. This is 5th generation, not 6th.
 
I wonder if Russian Plasma stealth will have the same problems as U.S. plasma stealth; arcing near the ground. Of course, I believe in that U.S. case, it was a whole vehicle being shielded with it when that occurred.

Also, when they say plasma stealth, are they talking about the plasma field that hides the RADAR antenna? Isn't that what the B-2's LPI RADAR does? I've never been able to determine what amount of plasma "shielding" the U.S. is already using and how much is still in development. They don't seem to be very forthcoming about that information! ;) ;D

I've been figuring that the PAK-FA will have the same level of stealth as the EF-2000, only with internal weapons carriage. But, we'll see eventually.
 
Once they've gone to the trouble of internal weapons, more radical shaping of the outer mold line (planform alignment, zig-zag panel joints etc.) starts to make a lot of sense. I'd therefore expect it to be quite a bit more sophisticated in that regard, other than the curved intake ducts there appears to be very little shaping for LO on the Typhoon. Most of the other RCS reduction measures are treatment of problem areas such as the leading edges, radome, canopy and gun muzzle with materials.

Otherwise Sukhoi needn't have bothered with the compromises associated with internal bays, IMHO.
 
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