Sukhoi PAK FA news and speculation (T-50, I-21) Part II [2008-2009]
- Thread starter overscan (PaulMM)
- Start date
- Status
Avimimus
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 15 December 2007
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 588
Still, I'm impressed. I have to hand it to the artist: This is the first "Raptorski" which actually caused my eyes to widen for a moment (it looks plausible!)
(Of course: I still like http://paralay.com/t50/rz1.jpg)
(Of course: I still like http://paralay.com/t50/rz1.jpg)
Aviation, building the first Russian fifth generation fighter, already in June massively reduce
16.03.09 10:45
Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Novosibirsk, Moscow, March 16 (New Region, Alexander Rodionov) - Timeline for implementation of the ambitious defense project Russia in recent years - the creation of the fifth generation fighter aircraft - once again may be to remove. As it became known «New Region», in June at the secure production site - «Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation production unification» (KnAAPO included in AKH «dry») is expected to mass dismissals of the labor collective. The situation was exacerbated vnutrizavodskoy conflict that developed since last year - unhappy with the material situation of workers, even wrote to President Medvedev and Putin prime minister, but the first reaction people have not waited.
The first Russian fifth generation fighter - PAK FA ( «forward-looking set of front-line aviation») despite promises Vice Premier Sergei Ivanov, this year does not fly.The point is that as early as June with «Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation production association to them. Gagarin (KnAAPO included in AKH «dry») will be laid off more than a thousand people. It is now collecting the super secret PAK-FA, the appearance of which still is the most important secret of the Ministry of Defense of Russia. As the «New Region» official representative of the trade union KnAAPO Paul Arslanov, notice of the massive reduction of the team arrived in the trade union at the beginning of March - three months before the reduction.
«Given the disconnection of the social sphere by the reduction comes just over a thousand people.Currently, the offices of the Commission is working to reduce, as well as the beginning of the central committee.The reason for the reductions - to change the production load KnAAPO to reduce », - told the news agencies, Mr. Arslanov. According to him, 25 and 26 March in Moscow a meeting of the Permanent Co-ordinating Council of JSC «United Aircraft Corporation» Workers union and the aviation industry.The main issue on the agenda will be a collective labor dispute at KnAAPO.
In the trade union no secret - on the eve of impending layoffs at the plant atmosphere of anxiety, which increases the labor dispute that began as early as last year. The reason for the protracted conflict and the factory management team has been the reluctance of top management AHK «dry» and leadership KnAAPO improve staff salaries. Today, it paid less than at other plants «Sukhoi» - «Irkut», 20 February, which showed President Dmitry Medvedev.Then the head of state felt that the Russian aircraft industry is booming.However, in contrast to the «Irkut», where the arrival of Medvedev managed to index wages to 22,5 thousand rubles to KnAAPO still pay no more than 17 thousand 938 rubles.
Meanwhile, aviation, thanks to work by «dry» earned a reputation as a leader in the field of military fighter escort, ask only a few - first-rate increase to 2 thousand 160 rubles (currently equal to 1 thousand 800 rubles), while koldogovore specify the timing of indexation salary. «However, the administration in the person of the director Alexander Knapp Pekarsha these demands were rejected», - told the company. This fact has led zavodchan go to the emergency meeting, following which a resolution was adopted. The document stated that during the period gospreobrazovany can not resolve any problem in living standards. «Promises by the authorities on the development of measures to protect the poorest of the poor from high food prices, the stabilization of prices for socially important foodstuffs and essential services are not met », - noted in the resolution KnAAPO.
Notably, the same Medvedev, who in February invigorate workers «Irkut» large export orders - is well aware of the problem is more significant for the Ministry of Defense and the reputation of the country because of the PAK FA KnAAPO.It turns out that another team of the factory in September, wrote the President about his troubles.«Message to Medvedev and Putin were sent on 18 September last year. True, it deals with employees of a particular enterprise, but in general the problems of the Far East. In addition was made to collect signatures under the appeal to the president runway «United Russia» Vladimir Putin, who was transferred to a public reception in Khabarovsk », - said Mr. Arslanov.With regard to the situation in the company, that information was sent to the premiere of an e-mail even before the December televised by the Russians. «Но ответа на это письмо так и не поступало», – говорит он. «But the answer to this letter and no», - he said.
Help «New Region»:
Gagarina »is a member of the AKH« dry »and is engaged in the production is exported fighter family« SU ». Currently KnAAPO manufactured fighter Su-30 MK2, Su-30 MK, Su-27 SMC, as well as prototypes of multifunctional fighter-generation «4 + +» Su-35.In addition, KnAAPO chosen as a production site for the manufacture of prototype of the first Russian fighter of the fifth generation PAK FA. Also in close collaboration with KnAAPO AKH «dry» the process of developing a new generation passenger aircraft Sukhoi Superjet 100.
16.03.09 10:45
Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Novosibirsk, Moscow, March 16 (New Region, Alexander Rodionov) - Timeline for implementation of the ambitious defense project Russia in recent years - the creation of the fifth generation fighter aircraft - once again may be to remove. As it became known «New Region», in June at the secure production site - «Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation production unification» (KnAAPO included in AKH «dry») is expected to mass dismissals of the labor collective. The situation was exacerbated vnutrizavodskoy conflict that developed since last year - unhappy with the material situation of workers, even wrote to President Medvedev and Putin prime minister, but the first reaction people have not waited.
The first Russian fifth generation fighter - PAK FA ( «forward-looking set of front-line aviation») despite promises Vice Premier Sergei Ivanov, this year does not fly.The point is that as early as June with «Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation production association to them. Gagarin (KnAAPO included in AKH «dry») will be laid off more than a thousand people. It is now collecting the super secret PAK-FA, the appearance of which still is the most important secret of the Ministry of Defense of Russia. As the «New Region» official representative of the trade union KnAAPO Paul Arslanov, notice of the massive reduction of the team arrived in the trade union at the beginning of March - three months before the reduction.
«Given the disconnection of the social sphere by the reduction comes just over a thousand people.Currently, the offices of the Commission is working to reduce, as well as the beginning of the central committee.The reason for the reductions - to change the production load KnAAPO to reduce », - told the news agencies, Mr. Arslanov. According to him, 25 and 26 March in Moscow a meeting of the Permanent Co-ordinating Council of JSC «United Aircraft Corporation» Workers union and the aviation industry.The main issue on the agenda will be a collective labor dispute at KnAAPO.
In the trade union no secret - on the eve of impending layoffs at the plant atmosphere of anxiety, which increases the labor dispute that began as early as last year. The reason for the protracted conflict and the factory management team has been the reluctance of top management AHK «dry» and leadership KnAAPO improve staff salaries. Today, it paid less than at other plants «Sukhoi» - «Irkut», 20 February, which showed President Dmitry Medvedev.Then the head of state felt that the Russian aircraft industry is booming.However, in contrast to the «Irkut», where the arrival of Medvedev managed to index wages to 22,5 thousand rubles to KnAAPO still pay no more than 17 thousand 938 rubles.
Meanwhile, aviation, thanks to work by «dry» earned a reputation as a leader in the field of military fighter escort, ask only a few - first-rate increase to 2 thousand 160 rubles (currently equal to 1 thousand 800 rubles), while koldogovore specify the timing of indexation salary. «However, the administration in the person of the director Alexander Knapp Pekarsha these demands were rejected», - told the company. This fact has led zavodchan go to the emergency meeting, following which a resolution was adopted. The document stated that during the period gospreobrazovany can not resolve any problem in living standards. «Promises by the authorities on the development of measures to protect the poorest of the poor from high food prices, the stabilization of prices for socially important foodstuffs and essential services are not met », - noted in the resolution KnAAPO.
Notably, the same Medvedev, who in February invigorate workers «Irkut» large export orders - is well aware of the problem is more significant for the Ministry of Defense and the reputation of the country because of the PAK FA KnAAPO.It turns out that another team of the factory in September, wrote the President about his troubles.«Message to Medvedev and Putin were sent on 18 September last year. True, it deals with employees of a particular enterprise, but in general the problems of the Far East. In addition was made to collect signatures under the appeal to the president runway «United Russia» Vladimir Putin, who was transferred to a public reception in Khabarovsk », - said Mr. Arslanov.With regard to the situation in the company, that information was sent to the premiere of an e-mail even before the December televised by the Russians. «Но ответа на это письмо так и не поступало», – говорит он. «But the answer to this letter and no», - he said.
Help «New Region»:
Gagarina »is a member of the AKH« dry »and is engaged in the production is exported fighter family« SU ». Currently KnAAPO manufactured fighter Su-30 MK2, Su-30 MK, Su-27 SMC, as well as prototypes of multifunctional fighter-generation «4 + +» Su-35.In addition, KnAAPO chosen as a production site for the manufacture of prototype of the first Russian fighter of the fifth generation PAK FA. Also in close collaboration with KnAAPO AKH «dry» the process of developing a new generation passenger aircraft Sukhoi Superjet 100.
Matej
Multiuniversal creator
Red stars probably 
Spring
ACCESS: Confidential
- Joined
- 4 June 2008
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 3
flateric said:
Not sure how will be the pakfa
But what i'm looking there is a clearly photoshoped flanker with a delta wing, just check it closer (the fairings /joint wing/fuselage)
Does not look a reliable picture, guess many photoshopers arround would do it better
And looking the last "stealthy berkut" model on other thread, i guess it will be better than that
Humm, the caudal appendix exactly like the Su-27 make me thing very suspicious.
And vertical stabilizer like on flanker and not at least cropped like on P-42 is non-sense for furtivity.
I'm waiting too for official confirmation
And vertical stabilizer like on flanker and not at least cropped like on P-42 is non-sense for furtivity.
I'm waiting too for official confirmation
KnAAPO: Information about the postponement of the project PAK FA is not true
March 17, AVIA.RU - Information on the timing of the project that the Russian fifth generation fighter PAK FA to once again be postponed because of the upcoming mass layoffs KnAAPO on behalf of Yuri Gagarin, is untrue.
About this newspaper «Our City», with reference to the statement KnAAPO.
Recall that according to the number of news agencies, which refer to the words of the representative trade union KnAAPO Arslanova Paul, in early March at the company received notification of the reduction of staff. Dismissals due to begin in three months.
According to Deputy Director KnAAPO Sergei Ageev, data disseminated by the union, did not have anything to do with the actual state of affairs.«We are really going in the first half to carry out the optimization of the number of employees. This optimization, we perform every year.Under the reduction are the most socially vulnerable groups of workers KnAAPO. Optimization is carried out by the reorganization of non-enterprise units.In the next six months we intend to reduce the more than 700 people. Basically, we are talking about workers who have reached retirement age », - said one of the leaders of the plant.
In fact, the leadership KnAAPO Arslanova denied the words of Paul, which argues that the reduction comes just over a thousand people, as well as «the official reasons for the reduction» called «reducing production load», - writes the newspaper.
March 17, AVIA.RU - Information on the timing of the project that the Russian fifth generation fighter PAK FA to once again be postponed because of the upcoming mass layoffs KnAAPO on behalf of Yuri Gagarin, is untrue.
About this newspaper «Our City», with reference to the statement KnAAPO.
Recall that according to the number of news agencies, which refer to the words of the representative trade union KnAAPO Arslanova Paul, in early March at the company received notification of the reduction of staff. Dismissals due to begin in three months.
According to Deputy Director KnAAPO Sergei Ageev, data disseminated by the union, did not have anything to do with the actual state of affairs.«We are really going in the first half to carry out the optimization of the number of employees. This optimization, we perform every year.Under the reduction are the most socially vulnerable groups of workers KnAAPO. Optimization is carried out by the reorganization of non-enterprise units.In the next six months we intend to reduce the more than 700 people. Basically, we are talking about workers who have reached retirement age », - said one of the leaders of the plant.
In fact, the leadership KnAAPO Arslanova denied the words of Paul, which argues that the reduction comes just over a thousand people, as well as «the official reasons for the reduction» called «reducing production load», - writes the newspaper.
- Joined
- 1 April 2006
- Messages
- 11,052
- Reaction score
- 8,492
Deputy Director KnAAPO Sergei Ageev = Security Dept. Chief
what other words should you expect from him?
actually, they are cutting about 10% of personell, mostly close to senior age, plus tiny slice of engineering personell of ~15 000 total staff
some work shops working for 3 days a week, flight test sation - 4 days a week
to get salary of ~800 bucks, you need to work something with three free days total in January, according to insiders
hard times, but I suppose they will put it in the air this year (60th annyversary of Sukhoy OKB)
let's be optimists
what other words should you expect from him?
actually, they are cutting about 10% of personell, mostly close to senior age, plus tiny slice of engineering personell of ~15 000 total staff
some work shops working for 3 days a week, flight test sation - 4 days a week
to get salary of ~800 bucks, you need to work something with three free days total in January, according to insiders
hard times, but I suppose they will put it in the air this year (60th annyversary of Sukhoy OKB)
let's be optimists
- Joined
- 27 December 2005
- Messages
- 16,922
- Reaction score
- 21,779
A
avatar
Guest
In an interview in the Force magazine a senior russki functionary had said that they were willing to sell India the fifth generation fighter and that was 2007. I think it has been pretty damn clear for sometime now that the Indians are not too impressed with what is on offer ...
The military will reduce the costs of the GLONASS and the fifth-generation aircraft
March 18, 2009
/AVIA.RU/
March 18, AVIA.RU - Military leaders of the country promises to save the costs of teaching, the purchase of arms, social benefits, and military reform. But to reduce the cost of 'GLONASS', creating the fifth-generation fighter and the reform of sergeants.
About this newspaper writes today «Vedomosti».
Major Defense spending should remain intact despite the crisis and budget cuts, have to understand yesterday at a meeting of an expanded panel of the Defense Ministry, President Dmitry Medvedev and Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.
Undergone a reduction at least two major weapons programs - the military part of the system of satellite navigation «GLONASS» cut by 2 billion rubles., And the development of fifth generation fighter aircraft - to 938 million rubles. The representative RISDE (the institution responsible for the development of «GLONASS») Zubahin Alexander said that this reduction will not affect plans to launch new satellites this year, as the cycle of their production is great and they are actually paid. A representative of «Sukhoi» (fifth-generation aircraft developer) has assured that plans for the first flight of the machine until the end of the year, unchanged - the publication reported.
March 18, 2009
/AVIA.RU/
March 18, AVIA.RU - Military leaders of the country promises to save the costs of teaching, the purchase of arms, social benefits, and military reform. But to reduce the cost of 'GLONASS', creating the fifth-generation fighter and the reform of sergeants.
About this newspaper writes today «Vedomosti».
Major Defense spending should remain intact despite the crisis and budget cuts, have to understand yesterday at a meeting of an expanded panel of the Defense Ministry, President Dmitry Medvedev and Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.
Undergone a reduction at least two major weapons programs - the military part of the system of satellite navigation «GLONASS» cut by 2 billion rubles., And the development of fifth generation fighter aircraft - to 938 million rubles. The representative RISDE (the institution responsible for the development of «GLONASS») Zubahin Alexander said that this reduction will not affect plans to launch new satellites this year, as the cycle of their production is great and they are actually paid. A representative of «Sukhoi» (fifth-generation aircraft developer) has assured that plans for the first flight of the machine until the end of the year, unchanged - the publication reported.
Viktor Khristenko: Russia "will put on the wing" fifth-generation fighter aircraft this year
March 23, 2009
/AVIA.RU/
March 23, AVIA.RU - Russia «put on the wing» fifth-generation fighter aircraft this year.The statement was made by Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Viktor Khristenko in an interview with the magazine «Results».
«In the same year, we" put on the wing "fifth-generation fighter, no matter how difficult it was. Of course, there is a temptation to postpone - hard, money scarce, but if we give in to weakness, the results would be disastrous. These projects are then no one will be needed.The same market », - said Mr. Khristenko.
March 23, 2009
/AVIA.RU/
March 23, AVIA.RU - Russia «put on the wing» fifth-generation fighter aircraft this year.The statement was made by Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation Viktor Khristenko in an interview with the magazine «Results».
«In the same year, we" put on the wing "fifth-generation fighter, no matter how difficult it was. Of course, there is a temptation to postpone - hard, money scarce, but if we give in to weakness, the results would be disastrous. These projects are then no one will be needed.The same market », - said Mr. Khristenko.
Hi all,
1) Have found some interesting similarities between this CAD image of the CalPoly 'Vendetta' concept and the TsNII RCS 4-view CAD images of the PAK-FA
leaked few years back (the images are attached here).
(For those that dont know, the CalPoly 'Vendetta' concept (submitted by students of CalPoly aero school as part of an AIAA design contest in 2001 I think) was a design concept for stealthy supercruiser long range aircraft (which is similar to the PAK requirement). I think the Vendetta is also mentoined in another thread on this forum - for more details, you can read the pdf report of the submission here ->
aerosim.calpoly.edu/files/Vendetta/Vendetta%20-%20Final%20SAWE%20Paper.pdf
(The image is on page 16 or 18 of the pdf report).
Notice that main difference between the Vendetta concept and the TsNII bottom right view is the YF-23 style rhomboid wing and the F-22 style horizontal tail fins (in the Vendetta). Else - they are quite similar.
If you recall - this seems (superficially to me at least) to be in line with Mr RSM55 keeps on steadfastly saying over at key publishing forums (namely, that
'the PAK-FA does not look like the YF-23; it looks MORE like the YF-23 than the raptor) i.e., the PAK-FA is a hybrid - it 'cherry picks' the best features of the
Raptor and black widow but instinctively looks like the black Widow).
So - I think the Vendetta can be a plausible starting point for the PAK-FA appearance (I am saying plausible because its based on real life physics/RCS modelling rather than some artist's impressions!!!!).
2) Also, I saw this rather cryptic paragraph in this article http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2009/01/16/Russia_bets_on_new_Sukhoi_fighter_to_match_F-35/UPI-93841232131619/
########
"The new fighter -- a medium version -- will have a traditional wing form, though the dramatic-looking reverse-delta wing of the Su-47 Berkut influenced the Russian fighter's designers."
########
Dunno how to intrepet this - is the article trying to hint that the PAK-FA wing shape incorporates both conventional backward sweep and elements of the Berkut forward sweep? To me, it seems that would be possible only if the PAK-FA had a jointed wing or a rhomboid wing (just like the YF-23 !!).
Seems like there are subtle hints out there in favour of Black Widowski rather than a raptorski.
1) Have found some interesting similarities between this CAD image of the CalPoly 'Vendetta' concept and the TsNII RCS 4-view CAD images of the PAK-FA
leaked few years back (the images are attached here).
(For those that dont know, the CalPoly 'Vendetta' concept (submitted by students of CalPoly aero school as part of an AIAA design contest in 2001 I think) was a design concept for stealthy supercruiser long range aircraft (which is similar to the PAK requirement). I think the Vendetta is also mentoined in another thread on this forum - for more details, you can read the pdf report of the submission here ->
aerosim.calpoly.edu/files/Vendetta/Vendetta%20-%20Final%20SAWE%20Paper.pdf
(The image is on page 16 or 18 of the pdf report).
Notice that main difference between the Vendetta concept and the TsNII bottom right view is the YF-23 style rhomboid wing and the F-22 style horizontal tail fins (in the Vendetta). Else - they are quite similar.
If you recall - this seems (superficially to me at least) to be in line with Mr RSM55 keeps on steadfastly saying over at key publishing forums (namely, that
'the PAK-FA does not look like the YF-23; it looks MORE like the YF-23 than the raptor) i.e., the PAK-FA is a hybrid - it 'cherry picks' the best features of the
Raptor and black widow but instinctively looks like the black Widow).
So - I think the Vendetta can be a plausible starting point for the PAK-FA appearance (I am saying plausible because its based on real life physics/RCS modelling rather than some artist's impressions!!!!).
2) Also, I saw this rather cryptic paragraph in this article http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2009/01/16/Russia_bets_on_new_Sukhoi_fighter_to_match_F-35/UPI-93841232131619/
########
"The new fighter -- a medium version -- will have a traditional wing form, though the dramatic-looking reverse-delta wing of the Su-47 Berkut influenced the Russian fighter's designers."
########
Dunno how to intrepet this - is the article trying to hint that the PAK-FA wing shape incorporates both conventional backward sweep and elements of the Berkut forward sweep? To me, it seems that would be possible only if the PAK-FA had a jointed wing or a rhomboid wing (just like the YF-23 !!).
Seems like there are subtle hints out there in favour of Black Widowski rather than a raptorski.
Attachments
sanjeev.k said:
I've mentioned before that I wonder why most of the internet artist's impressions take inspiration from the so-called "Saturn" image instead of this CAD, which appears much more realistic. But can we say for sure that the CAD orginated with TsNII? Or, even if it did, that it really relates to the PAK FA?
To go a little off topic, it's well worth reading through the Vendetta report. Highlights include a discussion on how much shaping alone will reduce RCS, aside from any RAM coatings and other measures. There's also a fascinating look at the pros and cons of a V tail, with the students coming to the opposite solution from the professionals at Northrop . . .
Attachments
Avimimus
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 15 December 2007
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 588
overscan said:
Same artist as the Mig (earlier)? Looks like the rear of the NPO Saturn image, with a top view of a Mig-29 and nose features hybridised from a Su-27 and an F-22... parsimonious.
Of course one can easily get cut on Occam's razor.
'the PAK-FA does not look like the YF-23; it looks MORE like the YF-23 than the raptor'
I suppose the same idea could be said about the Su-25 being a 'copy' of the Northrop A-9. We all know it isn't but it looks more like the A-9 than it does an A-10.
I suppose the same idea could be said about the Su-25 being a 'copy' of the Northrop A-9. We all know it isn't but it looks more like the A-9 than it does an A-10.
the problem with most westerners ,especially the US they think always that good designs of non
American orgine are copycats.(offcourse bullshit!!!)
In US magazines they wrote that the F-35 and F-22 will be superior to the T-50,quit arrogant i say.
They havent seen the new fighter jet and cant know its performance (even the CIA knows not ever
thing)
I say the new jet will be a nasty shock for the Americans,and air superiorty is not only for the USAF
anymore. I welcome the day that the first photos of the new aircraft will be released.
American orgine are copycats.(offcourse bullshit!!!)
In US magazines they wrote that the F-35 and F-22 will be superior to the T-50,quit arrogant i say.
They havent seen the new fighter jet and cant know its performance (even the CIA knows not ever
thing)
I say the new jet will be a nasty shock for the Americans,and air superiorty is not only for the USAF
anymore. I welcome the day that the first photos of the new aircraft will be released.
donnage99
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 16 June 2008
- Messages
- 1,285
- Reaction score
- 639
And what magazine that said f-35 or f-22 are superior than the T-50? And how do you know that CIA don't know a thing? Do you know some Russian media claimed the su-47 to be true fifth generation fighter ready for order when it turned out to be a testbed, or that the mig 1.44 to have lower RCS and superior than f-22 when it turned out to be a dead end project and that the aircraft probably sit in the hanger for quite long?T-50 said:
Please refrain from making one of those typical pointless posts thick with bias and little of factual evidence.
- Joined
- 27 December 2005
- Messages
- 16,922
- Reaction score
- 21,779
T-50 said:
I assume English is not your first language but please try to spell a bit better. Use the Spell Check button built in to the forum software.
I would also suggest that your assertion that the T-50 will be a "nasty shock" is at just as unsupported with evidence as your alleged "US magazines" opinion. It is hard for me to see how, given the underfunding of various essential core technologies from 1990 onwards in Russia, the PAK-FA will truly surpass the F-22 except possibly in airshow manouvres.
Avimimus
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 15 December 2007
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 588
T-50 said:
With the obvious exceptions of the R-3 and the Tu-4 of course
I get tired of the ........ski copycat claims, of course.
Yes, at the very least, the fact that the new fighter will have been developed one (or two) decades after its American counterparts will probably give it an edge.
lantinian
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 24 March 2007
- Messages
- 538
- Reaction score
- 170
In the years preceding the unveiling of the MiG 1.42 Prototype, I remember reading a lot of comments like the ones from our forum member T-50. I also remember seeing various types of western artist depictions of the supposed looks of the new Russian fighter. Surprisingly they were all spot on.
Looking back, If I had to compare the ability of the US and Russia to keep secretly developed aircraft configuration secret to the general public given the past examples such as F-117, ATF, MiG-1.42 and SU-47, it is a very safe assumption that the PAKFA configuration will be anything but surprise to journalists, let alone military experts.
Looking back, If I had to compare the ability of the US and Russia to keep secretly developed aircraft configuration secret to the general public given the past examples such as F-117, ATF, MiG-1.42 and SU-47, it is a very safe assumption that the PAKFA configuration will be anything but surprise to journalists, let alone military experts.
overscan said:
I never said that i had supporting evidence, i wanted to say that like the Japanese in WW2 the Russians
are in the eyes of many Westerners a underdog in designing a good aircraft. This mistake was also
made by the US Intel and army forces in WW2,until Pearlharbour then they discovered that thy made a
very big mistake. that's all
And yes English is not my mother language,but that must not to be an issue on its own,not all the
forum members are from Anglo Saksian origin and speaks and wrote English perfectly!
Lets us Concentrate on the topics of this wonderful forum,instead criticise another on the spelling
KJ_Lesnick
ACCESS: Top Secret
- Joined
- 13 February 2008
- Messages
- 1,042
- Reaction score
- 103
While I know these questions are not all answerable I could use any answers available. This is not meant to sponge, but simply to get a nice simple idea of the PAK-FA's capabilities and how they compare to the F-22.
Maneuverability wise how would you say that the PAK-FA's max-speed, cruise-speed, instantaneous, sustained maneuverability, roll-rate, and high-alpha capability would compare to the F-22 and F-35?
Radar/Sensor and Electronics wise, how would you say the radar capability, IR-systems, and sensor-fusion capability would compare with our F-22 and F-35?
KJ
Maneuverability wise how would you say that the PAK-FA's max-speed, cruise-speed, instantaneous, sustained maneuverability, roll-rate, and high-alpha capability would compare to the F-22 and F-35?
Radar/Sensor and Electronics wise, how would you say the radar capability, IR-systems, and sensor-fusion capability would compare with our F-22 and F-35?
KJ
ucon
ACCESS: Top Secret
Matej
Multiuniversal creator
As I understand, the single engine fighter is from 80s no-no for the Russian air force. It needs a big shift in thinking to have it so for me it is a bit improbable. And the conjecture based on... lets say the persistence of thinking usually works.
- Joined
- 27 December 2005
- Messages
- 16,922
- Reaction score
- 21,779
KJ_Lesnick said:
KJ, this is quite simply a pointless post.
Firstly, PAK-FA HASN'T FLOWN. Therefore the best you could possibly get would be estimated data.
Secondly, the parameters you seek are CLASSIFIED. Anyone who knows the answers to these questions cannot answer them.
KJ_Lesnick said:
I can say only this the Russians are making a qantum leap the last 10 years in developing true modern Radars
and digital avionics and Engines.
For example the AESA on the MIG-35 (very equal to the F-18E model) and the Ruskaya avionika made displays.
Theyre even bigger than those on the F-18E Su35 BM s displays are even bigger like the F-35s display
They mission computers are at least on the same level with those of the west (su-35BM and MIG-35)the engine throttle&management systems are also at least on the same level.
So i think although we dont know the T-50 parameters and peformance,we must reccon with that the tecnology on the T-50 will proceed.
I expect that the T-50 will at least as good like the F-22 Raptor ad F-35, the future shall say it
T-50
Spring
ACCESS: Confidential
- Joined
- 4 June 2008
- Messages
- 92
- Reaction score
- 3
I don't think the russians or the soviets are/were really impressed with the stealth technology, some obvious examples show that the original designers really don't trust in the stealthy concept..i can give you clearly examples about that, but don't really want to begin a polemic with the stealthy fandom.. i'm not saying that decreasing the RCS of an airplane is not important, just that the RCS values on the so called stealthy aircraft are not that impressive.
That said, i don't expect the russians are designing a paralay (TM) concept, nor that they will deploy low frequency radars on their fighters, they got a fine example of stealthy design , the F-117 downed over Serbia, being the nighthawk the only real truly stealthy design..i know some here will say is a generation behind....but is not, not really, either way, neither phazotron, or tikhomirov were really impressed
What the russians are worried about are the physical performances of the F-22, the T/W, the operative height, the acceleration, and the failed supercruiser, and russians are expecting to overcome these features
I just hope "supercruiser" would have other meaning for the russians, not the mere "supersonic w/o reheat", but supersonic persistence at long ranges, which is different....not always dry thrust is the answer for long range supercruiser, nor high dry thrust give you lower fuel consume on all the flight regimes, nor give you lower IR signature , not always is the case
That said, i don't expect the russians are designing a paralay (TM) concept
, nor that they will deploy low frequency radars on their fighters, they got a fine example of stealthy design , the F-117 downed over Serbia, being the nighthawk the only real truly stealthy design..i know some here will say is a generation behind....but is not, not really, either way, neither phazotron, or tikhomirov were really impressedWhat the russians are worried about are the physical performances of the F-22, the T/W, the operative height, the acceleration, and the failed supercruiser, and russians are expecting to overcome these features
I just hope "supercruiser" would have other meaning for the russians, not the mere "supersonic w/o reheat", but supersonic persistence at long ranges, which is different....not always dry thrust is the answer for long range supercruiser, nor high dry thrust give you lower fuel consume on all the flight regimes, nor give you lower IR signature , not always is the case
- Joined
- 17 October 2006
- Messages
- 2,354
- Reaction score
- 988
"I just hope "supercruiser" would have other meaning for the russians, not the mere "supersonic w/o reheat", but supersonic persistence at long ranges, which is different....not always dry thrust is the answer for long range supercruiser, nor high dry thrust give you lower fuel consume on all the flight regimes, nor give you lower IR signature , not always is the case"
Very true.
Very true.
- Status
Similar threads
-
Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II [2012-current]- Started by overscan (PaulMM)
- Replies: 3K
-
-
-
-
Sukhoi PAK FA news and speculation (T-50, I-21) Part I [2006-2008]
- Started by overscan (PaulMM)
- Replies: 455