Sukhoi PAK FA news and speculation (T-50, I-21) Part I [2006-2008]

[medal64]

How long does it take to produce PAK-FA.Do you have any idea?

 

[medal64]

Flateric do you have any new news about how is the PAK-FA production going At what parts are they working on and did they get new equipments for creating smooth suraces.Is it posible to finish the PAK-FA's body assembly in this time?

 

[flateric]

PAK-FA is a classified program. I'm not involved as I said before several times. So you questions are rather...naive.

 

[medal64]

Sorry but I hope you understand me I trust you little much.Because you are fallowing Russian news and you are interested in PAK-FA project.

 

[paralay]

Engine PAKFA of the first stage:

 

[medal64]

Indian and Russian versions will use different avionics.This is confirmed by Indian side.

 

[medal64]

Source: company "Open Society" Company "Sukhoi"»
It is published: 4/8/2008, 11:39





The Russian delegation will continue discussion of the project of co-production of a fighter of the fifth generation in India


The delegation which structure included representatives of "Rosoboroneksporta" and company "Dry" makes working visit to India. The Russian experts should familiarise on a place with possibilities of the Indian project institutes and aviabuilding factories on joint working out and manufacture of a fighter of the fifth generation.

The trip passes in development signed on October, 18th in Moscow within the limits of 7th session of the Russian-Indian intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation of the intergovernmental agreement on joint working out and to manufacture of a fighter of the fifth generation. In January of this year Moscow was visited by representative Indian delegation of the Ministry of Defence and aviabuilding corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. She has visited company "Dry" where organizational and industrial questions of the project were discussed, the technical requirements, show which Indian Air Forces to the plane. The trip to the Komsomol-on-cupid aviation production association of J.A.Gagarina has taken place. Here since December of last year assemblage of the first pre-production models of a fighter of the fifth generation is conducted.

The intergovernmental Russian-Indian agreement on joint working out of a fighter of the fifth generation is one of the largest joint programs of cooperation of Moscow and Delhi in military sphere. Direct executors of the project are company "Dry" and the Indian corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

 

[flateric]

For those who are rare visitors at other forums, here's an interesting story...

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7655

Everything started with *FAKE* news of PAK FA cancellation...instead of giving direct link to RIA Novosti site, author says that took text 'from the other forum' - needless to say, that links to the other forums are prohibited at DefenseTalk forums...search of Russian-language copy, or English language original give no results as expected. Interesting who did start this crap...

Russia's next-generation fighter project cancelled

MOSCOW, April 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russian air force commander-in-chief Aleksandr Zelin has announced the cancellation of the $20-billion PAK-FA program after 20 years of escalating costs, technological glitches and redesigns failed to produce a single prototype aircraft.

The PAK-FA, once billed as Russia's next-generation fighter, had consumed $13.9-billion. The estimated cost of each aircraft had soared to $87.2-million from an original target of $30-million.

"It's had a long and troubled history," said Alexei Arbatov, a senior Duma official who heads the lower house committee for defense.

The PAK-FA, a new generation fighter aircraft concept, was designed to be comparable to both the American F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II and has been overtaken by the need to strengthen Russia's strategic nuclear forces.

Acknowledging that the PAK-FA no longer fit into the requirements of Russia, the Air Force said it would rather spend the money on an overhaul of its aviation system. If approved by the Federal Assembly, the funds would be directed instead to buy over 400 additional SU-34, SU-35 and other aircraft and to upgrade and modernize 1,400 aircraft already in service. Surface-to-air missiles also would be a priority.

"It's about having an effective deterrent force," said Air Force Colonel General Alexander Zelin. "It's a big decision. We know it's a big decision, but it's the right decision."

The end of the PAK-FA also reflects an acknowledgement by the Ministry of Defence that it simply cannot afford all the programs it wants. The move underscores the fact that the Ministry of Defence must begin economizing as the cost of new weapon systems increase and demands on military spending grow, industry analysts said.

The Air Force would have spent $20-billion on the PAK-FA program through 2012 without getting aircraft significantly more capable than the upgraded SU-35 it already plans to buy, Air Force officials said.

Some officials of the State Duma reacted angrily to the cancellation.

"I am outraged by the decision to terminate the PAK-FA program given that the Air Force has long argued that it is a critical weapons system that plays a pivotal role in our defence," said State Duma deputy Vladimir Medinsky. "What has changed? And how does the military plan to make up for the lost capabilities?"

Alexei Arbatov, Deputy Chairman of the Defence Committee of the State Duma, said the decision "reflects the difficulty that the services are facing with the cost of modernization requirements now coming to the fore."

The cancellation was a blow to the PAK-FA's prime contractors, Sukhoi and NPO Saturn.

A senior Duma official said the Ministry of Defense expects to have to pay a $450-million to $680-million termination fee to Sukhoi and NPO Saturn.

The program's elimination, however, could benefit the two companies. The Air Force now plans to pour more money into the SU-34 and SU-35, and ramp up the upgrade of aircraft already in service which would keep both companies busy for the foreseeable future.

 

[flateric]

First reaction here is : ;D
http://www.militaryparitet.com/html/data/ic_news/160/

 

[sferrin]

What's it say? ???

 

[medal64]

I really wonder that does all about this news are the author's imagine power?

 

[medal64]

The
head of holding "Dry" discusses development of the project of co-production of a fighter of the fifth generation with a management of the Air Forces of India

Moscow, on April, 21st. Michael Pogosjan, the general director «Companies" Dry ", carries on in India negotiations with a management of military-air forces of this country. On them questions of realisation of the project on joint working out and manufacture of a fighter of the fifth generation are discussed and stay of the Russian delegation which structure included representatives of"Rosoboroneksporta"and aviabuilding holding are summed up. Experts ОКБ of the Dry and Komsomol-on-cupid aviation production association of J.A.Gagarina where since December of last year assemblage of the first pre-production models of the plane is conducted, on a place have familiarised with possibilities of the Indian project institutes and aviabuilding factories on project realisation.

The
trip of the Russian delegation and negotiations pass in development signed on October, 18th in Moscow within the limits of 7th session of the Russian-Indian intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation of the intergovernmental agreement on joint working out and to manufacture of a fighter of the fifth generation. In January of this year Moscow was visited by representative Indian delegation of the Ministry of Defence and aviabuilding corporation «Hindustan Aeronautiks Limited». She has visited company "Dry" where organizational and industrial questions of the project were discussed, the technical requirements, show which Indian Air Forces to the plane. The trip on aircraft factory "Dry" in has taken place Komsomolske-on-cupid.

The
intergovernmental Russian-Indian agreement on joint working out of a fighter of the fifth generation is one of the largest joint programs of cooperation of Moscow and Delhi in military sphere. Direct executors of the project are company "Dry" and the Indian corporation «Hindustan Aeronautiks Limited».

Source:www.sukhoi.org
Date:21.04.2008

 

[medal64]

Air Force CinC: Fifth Generation Airplane Will Begin Flights in 2009


The fifth generation airplane will begin flights in 2009. As RIA Novosti reports, the Russian Federation air force commander-in-chief, General-Colonel Aleksandr Zelin announced this to journalists today.


"I am deeply convinced that this aircraft will fly in 2000," he said.


According to the CinC, he has been at the plant in Komsomol'sk-on-Amur several times and is completely aware of the situation.


"We are satisfied on the whole with the creation of this aircraft. I will be reporting to the government about how it is being created. It's the future of the Russian air force," RIA Novosti quotes Zelin.


It is recalled that in December 2007, the Komsomol’sk-on-Amur Yu.A. Gagarin Aviation Production Association (KnAAPO) which is included in the Sukhoy Holding Company, began assembly of the first prototypes of the future multirole fifth generation fighter. Flight tests may begin in 2009.


The fifth generation fighter is being developed as a multirole complex which will be distinguished by high mobility, secrecy, intelligence and survivability in the resolution of missions for securing complete mastery in the air and destroying ground and naval targets. This airplane’s high combat effectiveness will be the result of its flight performance and ability to use precision weapons. The most modern engines and avionics will be installed on it.

Source: 22.04.08, Rosbalt.RU

 

[flateric]

"I am deeply convinced that this aircraft will fly in 2000," he said.

'deeply convinced' - I'm beginning to worry =)

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Perhaps he needs a new calendar.

 

[sferrin]

Perhaps he needs a new calendar.

As long as they've been saying "any day now" it's more likely they just handed him an old speech. ;D

 

[Woody]

More interesting than most of the pictures here.

http://www.perudefensa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246&page=2

Got any comments?

Cheers, Woody

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Obvious fake, created some time ago. Based on a photo of two SLM-32 "Burkut" aerodynamic test models.

http://khai.edu/niipfm/english/slm32-en.htm

 

[Woody]

Fair enough - pretty obvious when you see them from that angle. So are these a movie model?

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread349732/pg1

Cheers, Woody

 

[flateric]

These are early attemts to check YF-22 aerodynamics. Not PAK FA related.

 

[LowObservable]

So they must have been based on the first artist's impression to be released, sometime in 1989-90?

 

[flateric]

Said so, but source was involved mostly in ATF weapons bay reverse engineering, so he can be wrong.
Always remember that one of the earliest T-50 iterations was nicknamed 'big-eared' by TsAGI gremlins.
As I remember, first ATF retouched pics were released by DoD in May, 1990, and first released YF-22 pic have no tail/exausts details

 

[rousseau]

Nowadays, The Su-50 has been built completed as I known, who's got any photos to release?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

You do understand the word "secret", right?

:

 

[flateric]

Nowadays, The Su-50 has been built completed as I known, who's got any photos to release?

Spies we have sent to the factory with glass beads and vodka didn't return yet. Interesting what could happen?
What do you think? I'm starting to worry...
Will be Topol-M and Bulava CAD drawings pack a good substitute for you till they return?

 

[sferrin]

Nowadays, The Su-50 has been built completed as I known, who's got any photos to release?

Spies we have sent to the factory with glass beads and vodka didn't return yet. Interesting what could happen?
What do you think? I'm starting to worry...
Will be Topol-M and Bulava CAD drawings pack a good substitute for you till they return?

That would work for me but only if you throw some CAD drawings of the S-300V system and TU-123 into the mix as well

 

[medal64]

I hope PAK-FA doesn't happen a disappointment for all of us.I hope it's outdesign happens different from su-47 and we can see a real F-22 competitor with it's technologies.Every thing is about money but if Russia doesn't spend enough money for this aircraft and creates something similar old aircrafts it's aircraft sales can drop too much.

 

[flateric]

if Russia doesn't spend enough money

you should read 'if the gang will not steal all the money'

 

[hs1216]

I hope PAK-FA doesn't happen a disappointment for all of us.I hope it's outdesign happens different from su-47 and we can see a real F-22 competitor with it's technologies.Every thing is about money but if Russia doesn't spend enough money for this aircraft and creates something similar old aircrafts it's aircraft sales can drop too much.

But the sales of this aircraft will be poor ( compared to the SU-27 and MiG-29) to start with. The problem with the f-22 and any aircraft that would potential rival or surpass its capabilities, is that the expensive. Even with taking in account the Russian nak for producing superb equipment at cut rate prices, any f-22 class aircraft would be extremely costly to buy and then operate, and in the post cold war world that means relatively poor sales. I'm not saying that it would be horrible, but outside of China and India, i doubt many countries will be afford it.

 

[avatar]

Actually India and Brazil will buy it . China will not be allowed into this project. India just won't stand for it.

 

[avatar]

Okay here's some news on the PAK-FA and as i had earlier posted it seems that the PAK-FA will be in the Heavy Combat Aircraft category:

This is from the Hindu

The government had sent the technical requirements for the fifth generation fighter aircraft to Russia and is waiting for their observations.

The tonnage would be in line with the Sukhoi-30 MKI, but the plane would have stealth and other advanced features. Development was expected to take a decade.

http://www.thehindu.com/2008/06/06/stories/2008060654901200.htm

 

[Avimimus]

Its funny to think that, as is often the case, the U.S. probably has complete copies (due to espionage) and we (the public worldwide) are really the only people in the dark...

 

[sferrin]

Its funny to think that, as is often the case, the U.S. probably has complete copies (due to espionage) and we (the public worldwide) are really the only people in the dark...

That's the most annoying part. Of course you have the "we know they know but they don't know that we know what they know" to the nth degree.

 

[Avimimus]

I noticed an absence of the category "unknown knowns" in Rumsfeld's speech ...now you make me think that he chose to leave out this category intentionally...

 

[Just call me Ray]

Its funny to think that, as is often the case, the U.S. probably has complete copies (due to espionage) and we (the public worldwide) are really the only people in the dark...

Not to mention the reverse. It's often thrown around that the secrecy behind "Area 51" is pointless because the general public is the only ones not informed on it.

 

[flateric]

Stop offtopic please.

 

[medal64]

Do you have high quality su35BM first flight videos?Can you help me?

 

[avatar]

okay Force magazine's latest issue carries this illustration from Paralay's site and deems it the "re-designed

FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) "

 

[vajt]

okay Force magazine's latest issue carries this illustration from Paralay's site and deems it the "re-designed

FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) "

That's funny....you go Paralay!

-----JT-----

 

[avatar]

http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=448905&sid=NAT

okay Indian sci. adviser says FGFA (PAK-FA) will fly in March next year