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Herman said:Reply to post #1454
Terribly Heath Robenson looking affair...
kaiserbill said:Further to another vehicle earlier in this thread, it's just been announced the Mbombe 6x6 from Paramount looks like it is going into production in Kazakhstan.
So no longer a prototype or secret project from the looks of things.
EDIT: Jordan also has some on order from an announcement last year that I seem to have missed.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/paramount_group_of_south_africa_opens_new_armoured_vehicles_factory_in_kazakhstan_10612153.html
kaiserbill said:Was browsing the web and came across this picture which I had not sen before of the LZN
I'm not sure who painted the phonetic spelling of the nickname on the front bumper, but this may have been done as a joke when it was being touted to the Middle East?
Herman said:Reply to post #1465
I have Whitworth's book. As you mention, it is a very interesting piece of work which casts interesting light on the state of SA's artillery during the seventies, at the start of the Angolan War, the casting about for an effective answer to Angolan/Cuban artillery superiority, the acquisition of the G4 guns and the development of the G5 and G6 systems. The nuclear program and the "Moerse Lorrie Zonder Naam" are also discussed.
What is the state of LZN in the above pictures? Is it just rotting away, is it used for general transport duties or is it for sale?
panzerskool said:"The Bomb- South Africa's Nuclear Program "by Dr Nic Von Wielligh who was intimately involved in the program. Read the reviews and its far more detailed than the other 6 or 7 books I have on the subject, released last month
kaiserbill said:Nice find!
The first pic seems to show the first Ratel prototype on the left, and the even earlier original Springfield Bussing Buffel on the right, with the order reversed in your second pic. If what we've ascertained on this thread is correct.
It's amazing how when this thread started there were no pics out there of these two vehicles, and very scant info.
As reference, below are, I think, the two vehicles as found on this thread, the only other ones I've ever seen.
The Springfield Bussing Buffel in your pic has a turret, and I wonder if the AML 60 turret was used as a design starting point.
Pic 1 is the (probable) Springfield Bussing Buffel, followed by the very first vehicle that starts to look like a Ratel, albeit with many differences still. The hull in particular seems to have some way to go still before the production type Ratel.
Great find.
EDIT: It is definitely the Springfield Bussing Buffel, as SA Bushwar posted a pic earlier from the front and the name Buffel is painted on it.
I hope you didn't mind me reposting your earlier pic you posted earlier in the thread, SA Bushwar, the 2nd pic below, for reference.
sa_bushwar said:kaiserbill said:Nice find!
The first pic seems to show the first Ratel prototype on the left, and the even earlier original Springfield Bussing Buffel on the right, with the order reversed in your second pic. If what we've ascertained on this thread is correct.
It's amazing how when this thread started there were no pics out there of these two vehicles, and very scant info.
As reference, below are, I think, the two vehicles as found on this thread, the only other ones I've ever seen.
The Springfield Bussing Buffel in your pic has a turret, and I wonder if the AML 60 turret was used as a design starting point.
Pic 1 is the (probable) Springfield Bussing Buffel, followed by the very first vehicle that starts to look like a Ratel, albeit with many differences still. The hull in particular seems to have some way to go still before the production type Ratel.
Great find.
EDIT: It is definitely the Springfield Bussing Buffel, as SA Bushwar posted a pic earlier from the front and the name Buffel is painted on it.
I hope you didn't mind me reposting your earlier pic you posted earlier in the thread, SA Bushwar, the 2nd pic below, for reference.
From GE - here they are on display outside the I SAI Gate in Bloemfontein.
i ordered from the publishers and they couriered it to me in DubaiFlying Sorcerer said:panzerskool said:"The Bomb- South Africa's Nuclear Program "by Dr Nic Von Wielligh who was intimately involved in the program. Read the reviews and its far more detailed than the other 6 or 7 books I have on the subject, released last month
Where did you get it from? Doesn't seem to be available from the usual vendors.
Herman said:Reply to post # 1474.
I sent and e-mail to: ptorders@onthedot.co.za over the weekend. Haven't heard anything yet however.
kaiserbill said:So, to recap and from what is being intimated, the TEL vehicles were an 8x8 vehicle that lent its components ("engine, transmission, axles and wheels") as the basis for the later vehicle that became the 6x6 LZN G6 artillery support vehicle?
Going by the attachment Graugrun posted earlier on the LZN, it was constructed by the "Special B Vehicles" department of Armscor, which is also the department that was apparently responsible for the TEL vehicles.
The LZN also has an air-cooled diesel of roughly the same power as the G6, both have a 6 speed auto transmission, and both have 21x25 tyres, so one could also say that there appears to be a strong family connection then between the G6, the LZN, and the TEL vehicles components-wise.
It would be interesting to know what then became of the actual TEL vehicles that were known to be constructed, as opposed to the derived LZN.
panzerskool said:Herman said:Reply to post # 1474.
I sent and e-mail to: ptorders@onthedot.co.za over the weekend. Haven't heard anything yet however.
Theresa Papenfus
Litera Publikasies / Litera Publications
Email: theresap@litera.co.za
panzerskool said:I Have been looking for info on the SA TELs for many years and nothing seems to have emerged yet ( a lot like the Israeli TELs where no photos exist).
Abraham Gubler said:panzerskool said:I Have been looking for info on the SA TELs for many years and nothing seems to have emerged yet ( a lot like the Israeli TELs where no photos exist).
Because they are one and the same. First they were SADF TELs then and now they are IDF TELs.
panzerskool said:im not 100% sure of that. IDF had mobile launchers for the Jericho project before SA embarked on same .
curious george said:*off f/book.
sa_bushwar said:curious george said:*off f/book.
Take another careful look at this MAN 8x8. It is not the artillery gun tractor, but has flat bed seemingly filled with cargo. Maybe it was part of testing the concept. As apparently only one was built, it seems to have gone through some evolution.