Interesting.
CostasTT said:Looks like the ZA-35 turret as fitted to a T-72 chassis to me. A Chinese tank chassis would have different skirts and tracks.
kaiserbill said:I just added a note saying that in the discussion where the picture was posted on facebook, mention was made that it was reported that at least one of the Chinese SP AA guns was the Denel 35mm (as found in the ZA-35 turret and the naval DPG 35mm) as opposed to the vanilla Oerlikon 35mm that one would expect, although I cannot personally vouch for that obviously.
Pride of place in the EWT pantheon, however, goes to the World Conqueror Special Mobility System series of commercial and military, tracked and wheeled, armoured and unarmoured vehicles. Although still awaiting a launch customer, the World Conqueror represents a comprehensive approach to standardisation. Variants that share common drive train and power-pack, among other shared components, include a tracked light tank, a 4x4 or 6x6 infantry fighting vehicle, a 6x6 or 4x4 armoured logistics platform, a 4x4 or 6x6 armoured personnel carrier, and a 4x2 commercial logistics platform.
The hull structure for all vehicles in the series is designed for effortless, cost effective assembly, without the need for complex jigs and sophisticated machinery. Since the assembly concepts for all the vehicles in the system are identical, it is conceivable that all vehicles can be built using a single assembly line. The laser-cut armoured steel plates can be supplied in kit form, which consists of the hull plates already fitted with the necessary weld elements, ready for construction of the hull. The hull plates for the vehicles are designed to be self-jigging by means of the tongue-and-groove method......the technique ensures that the rear wall, side wall, and roof are all perpendicular to each other.
Grey Havoc said:This looks like it's directly related, though it was now (2010) referred to as the Virleo MATHS – Modular All-Terrain Hybrid System:
http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/china-looks-into-buying-modular-vehicle-platform-from-sa-group-2010-04-12
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?177609-China-looks-into-buying-modular-vehicle-platform-from-SA-group
Later in the same year: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/automotive-defence-2010-07-23/
xiaofan said:Grey Havoc said:This looks like it's directly related, though it was now (2010) referred to as the Virleo MATHS – Modular All-Terrain Hybrid System:
http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/china-looks-into-buying-modular-vehicle-platform-from-sa-group-2010-04-12
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?177609-China-looks-into-buying-modular-vehicle-platform-from-SA-group
Later in the same year: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/automotive-defence-2010-07-23/
From the SA company link it looks like these vehicles are order by a local municipal government (by the way the city mentioned in article is local in northeast part of China and it is not a big city).
Also looks like Chinese military is not overly enthusiasm about this, this is mainly due to that several major automobile manufacturers are actively research and develop similar system,.
If Chinese military do interested in these vehicles we will see the picture(s) for domestic variant all over the place, as far as I know there is no picture for domestic variant has emerged, not only that there is hardly any information about this deal at all and no picture for SA vehicles in China has emerged.
sa_bushwar said:xiaofan said:Grey Havoc said:This looks like it's directly related, though it was now (2010) referred to as the Virleo MATHS – Modular All-Terrain Hybrid System:
http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/china-looks-into-buying-modular-vehicle-platform-from-sa-group-2010-04-12
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?177609-China-looks-into-buying-modular-vehicle-platform-from-SA-group
Later in the same year: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/automotive-defence-2010-07-23/
From the SA company link it looks like these vehicles are order by a local municipal government (by the way the city mentioned in article is local in northeast part of China and it is not a big city).
Also looks like Chinese military is not overly enthusiasm about this, this is mainly due to that several major automobile manufacturers are actively research and develop similar system,.
If Chinese military do interested in these vehicles we will see the picture(s) for domestic variant all over the place, as far as I know there is no picture for domestic variant has emerged, not only that there is hardly any information about this deal at all and no picture for SA vehicles in China has emerged.
There is another Chinese connection. At African Aviation and Defence Expo 2014 (AAD 2014) I spoke to the owner/developer of the Caprovi MRV; and he told me that after struggling to get manufacturing going in SA, he agreed with a Chinese firm to build the Caprivi in China. The Caprivi is a South African development now being built in China, not the other way around as some websites claim.
It is claimed to have been acquired by Nigeria for the fight against Boko Haram.
http://mobilelandsystems.net/company-profile/
http://www.mobilelandsystems.net/CAPTIVI_MK1.pdf
https://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/mine-tests-conducted-on-the-caprivi-mk-1bigfoot-mrap-shows-real-strength/
http://the-eyeontheworld.blogspot.com/2014/05/new-chinese-mrap-seen-in-nigerian-army.html
kaiserbill said:Had a look around, especially for clues as to the colour and abreviations on the door of that strange looking vehicle...
First off, I thought the vehicle could be an air force vehicle, for loading ordininance or missiles, but the colour of the vehicle is brown, so it would be Army.
Although it doesn't say TSC (Technical Service Corp) in that abbreviation on the door, here is the TSC gallery of some of their vehicles:
http://the-tsc.co.za/photo.htm
Note that the colour scheme is the same on the door and webpage above, blue, yellow, red.
So, I think it is a TSC vehicle, or was a prototype destined to be.
But for what?
It seems to have rubber bumpers, and as noted, an offset drivers cab giving a long unobstructed loadbed.
Could this be for moving heavy AFV/artillery barrels perhaps?
Grey Havoc said:Could it be perhaps intended as a dedicated carrier for Mabey Bridge components?
kaiserbill said:Thanks CG.
Pics of that large armoured 8x8 gun tractor are very rare... only a couple out there.
I've seen it mentioned that the vehicle used MAN components, in contrast to the other, earlier published assertion (earlier on this thread) that it used Samil 100 components.
sa_bushwar said:Looking closely at the picture, it is a flatbed log vehicle nearest to the camera and an 8x8 gun tractor in the background?
CostasTT said:In the first photo, is that a MILAN launcher mounted on the left forward arm?
Mechem/Alvis Iron Eagle
Designed in 1989 by Mechem Consultants (Denel), taken over by Alvis. Within the Alvis plan, Iron Eagle was to be matched with Mamba IIs (as the Alvis 8 and Alvis 11 depending on seating). Iron Eagle shared the Mamba's Unimog drivetrain (but now mounted in the left rear of the Iron Eagle hull).Iron Eagle was to be a 3-man recce and liaison vehicle to replace aging Ferrets. It was mine protected (welded armour monocoque hull 7.62mm/splinter resistant) and qualified for airdrops (5 chutes per vehicle)The plan for Iron Eagle (Ysterarend) for SADF parachute btns fell through and Alvis developed the concept further as its Scarab. Three Iron Eagle / Ysterarend TDP vehicles were completed.The crew arrangement is driver centre front (and looking very Ratel), with veh cmdr and gunner side-by-side directly behind the driver.
Specs
Length 3.6 m 11.81 ft
Width 2.1 m 6.89 ft
Height 1.74 m 5.71 ft
Combat weight 4.23 tonnes 4.66 tons
Fuel capacity 90 liters 23.94 gal
Performance. The maximum speed and range figures are on hard earth surfaces.
Maximum speed 105 km/h 65 mph
Maximum range 378 km 234.7 statute miles
Step 47 cm 1.54 ftTrench 78 cm 2.56 ft
Slope 26% 26%
Gradient 64% 64%
Fording 1.2 m 3.94 ft
Mercedes 123 hp (92 kW) and 4 + 4 manual gearbox and two-speed transfer box.Armament: quick-change pallet-mounted main armament (M40 106mm recoilless, Milan ATGM, 81mm M3 mortar, R107 MLRS), pintle-mount 7.62mm MG4 on right side.
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12909:fact-file-milan-precision-guided-misile&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159The original Milan or “New Generation Antitank Guided Missile (ATGM)” as it was called at the time, was available for issue to the Special Forces and the anti-tank platoons of the SA Army’s motorised and parachute infantry battalions in the late 1970s and 1980s at a scale of six launchers per platoon. The platoon was organised into three anti-tank sections consisting of two ATGM launchers and two M40A1 106mm recoilless guns (in the case of motorised troops) or two rocket launchers (in the case of airborne troops).
kaiserbill said:CostasTT said:In the first photo, is that a MILAN launcher mounted on the left forward arm?
Good question.
Apophenia posted this on another thread:
Mechem/Alvis Iron Eagle
Designed in 1989 by Mechem Consultants (Denel), taken over by Alvis. Within the Alvis plan, Iron Eagle was to be matched with Mamba IIs (as the Alvis 8 and Alvis 11 depending on seating). Iron Eagle shared the Mamba's Unimog drivetrain (but now mounted in the left rear of the Iron Eagle hull).Iron Eagle was to be a 3-man recce and liaison vehicle to replace aging Ferrets. It was mine protected (welded armour monocoque hull 7.62mm/splinter resistant) and qualified for airdrops (5 chutes per vehicle)The plan for Iron Eagle (Ysterarend) for SADF parachute btns fell through and Alvis developed the concept further as its Scarab. Three Iron Eagle / Ysterarend TDP vehicles were completed.The crew arrangement is driver centre front (and looking very Ratel), with veh cmdr and gunner side-by-side directly behind the driver.
Specs
Length 3.6 m 11.81 ft
Width 2.1 m 6.89 ft
Height 1.74 m 5.71 ft
Combat weight 4.23 tonnes 4.66 tons
Fuel capacity 90 liters 23.94 gal
Performance. The maximum speed and range figures are on hard earth surfaces.
Maximum speed 105 km/h 65 mph
Maximum range 378 km 234.7 statute miles
Step 47 cm 1.54 ftTrench 78 cm 2.56 ft
Slope 26% 26%
Gradient 64% 64%
Fording 1.2 m 3.94 ft
Mercedes 123 hp (92 kW) and 4 + 4 manual gearbox and two-speed transfer box.Armament: quick-change pallet-mounted main armament (M40 106mm recoilless, Milan ATGM, 81mm M3 mortar, R107 MLRS), pintle-mount 7.62mm MG4 on right side.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7351.0
Also:
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12909:fact-file-milan-precision-guided-misile&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159The original Milan or “New Generation Antitank Guided Missile (ATGM)” as it was called at the time, was available for issue to the Special Forces and the anti-tank platoons of the SA Army’s motorised and parachute infantry battalions in the late 1970s and 1980s at a scale of six launchers per platoon. The platoon was organised into three anti-tank sections consisting of two ATGM launchers and two M40A1 106mm recoilless guns (in the case of motorised troops) or two rocket launchers (in the case of airborne troops).
As far as I can tell, the SA parattroopers were using Ferret armoured cars as air droppable prime movers for weapons such as the 106mm recoiless. I think the YsterArend (Iron Eagle) vehicle above was developed to be airdroppable, and was probably aimed at replacing the Ferrets in paratrooper service.
Indeed, looking at the first pic, the major leaning on the front of the vehicle is a paratrooper, with the distinctive parabat smock.
As such, a Milan mounted on one would make perfect sense, I guess.
kaiserbill said:I've been meaning to order a copy of that Surviving the Ride, as it was recommended to me by Graugrun from this thread.
Alas, I've been busy with some "life" stuff over the last while...(apologies Graugrun, I never did get back to your request )
The previews on places like google books shows that it deals with many of the prototypes and programmes discussed in this very thread, including some of the rarer ones.
It looks like a "must have".
sa_bushwar said:Denel "Scout" with 81mm mortar. Don't think it ever went into production.
sa_bushwar said:Denel "Scout" with 81mm mortar. Don't think it ever went into production.