South African missiles/rockets/PGM's - Prototypes, Projects, Concepts, etc.

[kaa]

Hi Black Mamba

As far as I know it is off the market.

I do however have a late working draft which I regard as my own personal intellectual property, the finished product at the time not being copyrighted or published yet.

I can send it to you as is. Without compromising your personal information, where can I send it to via Dropbox.

I will trust your discretion in this regard, as well as, your loyalty to this group. ( Gobbledygook - Klingon would possibly be less circumspect ... )


Regards

Thorn

Hello Thorn,

I came across this thread recently and (quite fortunately) came across your post.

In my aims at knowing more about the program I decided to look for more books on the matter, especially Those who had the power which is now impossible to find...

I was wondering if it would not be an issue for you to send me the draft you have? Of course, it will not be shared and will be for my eyes only. I would greatly appreciate this.

Thank you,

Best,

 

[Thorn]

Hello Thorn,

I came across this thread recently and (quite fortunately) came across your post.

In my aims at knowing more about the program I decided to look for more books on the matter, especially Those who had the power which is now impossible to find...

I was wondering if it would not be an issue for you to send me the draft you have? Of course, it will not be shared and will be for my eyes only. I would greatly appreciate this.

Thank you,

Best,

Hi Kaa.

Fortunately I still have a copy of that draft somewhere.

See also my mail to Black Mamba above.

Can you get me your E-mail address via conversations...

Kind regards

Thorn

 

[kqcke for you]

Any News in the Turbojet/Fan development?

 

[Graugrun]

Any News in the Turbojet/Fan development?

Hi kqcke - I started a different thread on SA propulsion development: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/south-african-indigenous-propulsion-projects.39110/

 

[kqcke for you]

Thanks i didn't see it

 

[TsrJoe]

Flight International, 3 September 1977

 

[Graugrun]

Edge, Baykar integrating guided bombs with Bayraktar TB2 UAV (South African Impi range of missiles)​

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/...tegrating-guided-bombs-with-bayraktar-tb2-uav

See post # 220.

 

[Graugrun]

EDGE Entity AL TARIQ Completes Initial Integration of AL TARIQ PGMs (Denel Dynamics) onto HAL Tejas Light Combat Aircraft​

https://www.defensehere.com/en/edge...riq-pgms-onto-hal-tejas-light-combat-aircraft

 

[Graugrun]

Delivery of first operational A-Darters scheduled for December​

(we can only hope, it's pretty much due for a midlife upgrade already..)​

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/sa-def...operational-a-darters-scheduled-for-december/

 

[rocketZA]

Weird side question: Where does the name "Denel"come from? Is it an acronym or something?

 

[NMaude]

Weird side question: Where does the name "Denel"come from? Is it an acronym or something?

I don't know, maybe it's an Afrikaans word?

 

[TomS]

I don't know, maybe it's an Afrikaans word?

The Denel website says it stands for Detonics, Numerous, Electronics. No, I don't know what that means either.

Detonics is a pretty obscure word for the physics of explosions, and Electronics is self-explanatory, but Numerous makes no sense at all.

 

[timmymagic]

Not a happy time for Denel...

Massive personnel losses at Denel - defenceWeb

In the five-year period from the 2019/20 to 2023/24 financial terms, State-owned defence and technology conglomerate Denel saw staff numbers drop by just on 60% from 3 968 to 1 655. The nearly four thousand people employed at Denel and its various business divisions and associated companies in...

www.defenceweb.co.za

 

[timmymagic]

Not a happy time for Denel...

Massive personnel losses at Denel - defenceWeb

In the five-year period from the 2019/20 to 2023/24 financial terms, State-owned defence and technology conglomerate Denel saw staff numbers drop by just on 60% from 3 968 to 1 655. The nearly four thousand people employed at Denel and its various business divisions and associated companies in...

www.defenceweb.co.za

Just to add...I suspect the best and brightest are the ones that have either retired or, more likely, headed for pastures new in the UAE so its probably even worse than the figures already suggest.

If you're talented, experienced or young why would you stay? It's only going to get worse...

 

[Graugrun]

Inside EDGE – Al Tariq modular precision-guided munitions in continuous evolution​

​

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/al-tariq-modular-precision-guided-munitions-in-continuous-evolution​

 

[Graugrun]

Skynight ground-to-air missile

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/edge-a-view-from-the-top

Another key programme is the Skynight ground-to-air missile, designed to be part of a hybrid low-tier air defence system that also includes 35 mm guns, with among other a C-UAS capability. “The rules of the game have changed, and although guns and fire control system are very reliable, there is the need for a missile, and we will bring the missile element,” Hamad Al Marar said. Originally the missile was developed by Denel Dynamics in South Africa, and was known as Cheetah, but then the programme had some issues, and EDGE decided to take it further, the cooperation on the overall Skynight system being now only with Rheinmetall. And more specifically its entities in Switzerland and Italy, no more ties existing with South Africa.


Designed for becoming the longer-range element of the Skynight, the missile can however be easily integrated in other VSHORAD systems. The CEO explains that while retaining an active radar seeker, HALCON offloaded all what was possible from the missile to the ground control system, the latter doing all the tracking and guidance until the very last phase of the attack, where the missile seeker takes over. According to Hamad Al Marar the Skynight missile used a radar-on-a-chip solution, which is produced in a foundry, EDGE currently outsourcing this production. The Skynight missile maximum range is declared at 10 km, guns having a range of 4 km. A 20-feet containerised missile launcher unit capable to host 60 missiles, with a five missiles per second rate of fire, is being developed.

 

[Graugrun]

integrating various South African designed weapons onto the US MQ-9B Drone

As seen in the opening of this article, EDGE aims at increasing its export share, the United States being obviously a huge opportunity, for example in the small arms field. “We are not mature enough to handle the US market,” Hamad Al Marar stated that, however, he also underlined that the very lucrative small arms market is of great interest and EDGE will develop and form alliances to penetrate that market. In fact, the US market is already consuming 30 to 40% of small arms ammunition produced by the Group.

“I was actually even thinking beyond small arms and to other clusters, especially missiles and weapons,” the CEO said. The UAE buy of 18 MQ-9B SkyGuardians is still pending; approved by the US Department of State in 2020, it was frozen by the Biden administration one year later. EDGE filed an agreement with General Atomics Aeronautic Systems Inc. (GA-ASI) to integrate its Desert Sting guided glide weapons, Thunder precision guided munitions (PGM), and Al Tariq long range systems, on the MQ-9B. Although this is aimed at the UAE contract, it should well be an entry point as it adds flexibility to GA-ASI export proposals. It is to note that the EDGE integration, when implemented, will be the first of non-NATO weapons on that UAS. The deal was unveiled at the Dubai Air Show in November 2023; “To me this announcement was by itself a success, and it opens up users everywhere in the world. Of course, we will always be subjected to America regulations, but that’s not an issue,” the CEO added, underlining that EDGE guided weapons are already being integrated on UAE Air Force Mirage 2000s.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/edge-a-view-from-the-top

 

[Graugrun]

South African PGM developments with the EDGE Group

One of the most productive partnerships has been that with South Africa’s Denel Dynamics. Chambers said that the rise of precision-guided munitions (PGM) has changed the landscape of modern warfare. Established in 2012, AL TARIQ is the first UAE-based precision-guided munitions manufacturer.

AL TARIQ, is now part of the missiles and weapons cluster within the EDGE Group, and manufactures munitions that deliver fire-and-forget accuracy with high success rates and minimal collateral damage in the battle space. It designs, develops, manufactures and integrates air-to-surface missiles. Its technology partner and shareholder, Denel Dynamics, is South Africa’s largest government-owned defence manufacturer, specialising in tactical missiles, precision-guided weapons, unmanned aerial vehicle systems and space solutions. The partnership with Denel Dynamics has helped increase production capacity over a short span of time. EDGE’s prime focus has been on enhancing its production expertise and ensuring continual innovation while also working on production process improvements and establishing engineering functions to offer world-class products.

General Atomics Aeronautical Systems is another company partnered with EDGE, to integrate EDGE’s smart weapons onto its MQ-9B SkyGuardian UAV that the UAE plans to acquire. This collaboration marks the first time UAE-made smart weapons will be integrated onto a US unmanned platform.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/edge-expands-its-portfolio

The two Desert Stings in the centre of the photo are 100% South African developed - and there is a very high chance that it's the same for the two 'stealth type' mini PGMS on either side of them. Anyone able to confirm such?

 

[timmymagic]

The CEO explains that while retaining an active radar seeker, HALCON offloaded all what was possible from the missile to the ground control system, the latter doing all the tracking and guidance until the very last phase of the attack, where the missile seeker takes over.

He's decribing what all active radar missiles do there....but is there more to it?

 

[Mech]

He's decribing what all active radar missiles do there....but is there more to it?

The revolutionary part is the small size of the active radar seeker. Basically something in the class of a stinger with a radar. Don't think its ever been done before.

 

[TomS]

The revolutionary part is the small size of the active radar seeker. Basically something in the class of a stinger with a radar. Don't think its ever been done before.

Lockheed's Miniature Hit-to-Kill had an active radar version in a missile weighing about 5 pounds.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/miniature-hit-to-kill-interceptor.22716/

 

[TinWing]

The revolutionary part is the small size of the active radar seeker. Basically something in the class of a stinger with a radar. Don't think its ever been done before.

Skyknight has a diameter of 115mm, so it isn’t all that revolutionary. Even the Russians are promoting a 100mm active seeker - not sure what the application for that is, yet.

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

Merlin had an active seeker that fitted within a diameter of 81mm, and that was in the 1980s.