SCALP / Storm Shadow / MdCN

Pantsir is very good. There is much we do not know and gaps big enough to drive freight trains of nonsense thru. Air defense systems are inherently weak by being on the defense. Good tactics can massacre even the best air defense systems. Thr key is that these air defense systems limit the options of an opponent. Force them to attack in round about ways.
 
Forest Green said:
The fuselages were a major factor because every single one of them was different and hence each one needed a different set of wings. Each plane was essentially a different design, you just can't work like that. Additionally, because some of them were banana-shaped they had to play around a lot with stability augmentation systems to stop it flying like a drunken one-legged pigeon with one and half wings.

As for the wings not fitting, whether they actually tried or figured it out pre-build necessitating a redesign is debatable, but it was definitely one of the other.
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Yawn,
What a lot of fiction you pedal here and I’m reminded of the saying’s;-

“A lie travels around the world before the truth has even got its shoes on”

“A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth”

No, we didn’t build individual wings to suit fuselages, No fuselages were not banana shaped, No, every fuselage was jig built to tolerance not worse than any it’s contemporaries, No each airframe was not a unique design. No airframes did not need any out of the ordinary individual rigging,

How could anyone “debate “ when fiction is so deeply ingrained? I’ve even published photos on here of the original wing to fuselage ICY jig (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/bae-systems-nimrod-mra-4.32010/page-3#post-355907) and that’s not good enough for you? Here let me try…The jigs you can see with your own eyes in these photo’s achieved their intended purpose thus allowing a single wing build definition to match with all the fuselages in the build program. Now to continue this “debate” I’m expecting prima facie documented evidence from yourself that they didn’t t NB press cuttings or claims of what your mate told you are inadmissible.
Unlike modern A, B and E team products MRA4 wing was a tip to tip structure attached to the fuselage by two drop down links, four strake links and shear bracket (the normal method is the fuselage frames being integral the wing centre box). So there’s no need.to build each wing any different, only the attachment brackets, links etc. So please advise which of these was resized to match a particular fuselage. Size matching doesn’t include inline bush reaming or the shimming of the rear shear bracket.

By the way I was one of the people you described as “they” .

Mods feel free to relocate this to a more appropriate thread.
 
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timmymagic said:
FighterJock said:
There was talk about the RAF putting the Storm Shadow onto the P-8 Forrest Green but I have not heard anything about it recently whether they have done it or not.
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Never heard anything official about arming the P-8. RAF and MoD are very quiet about that as they've had to purchase a small stockpile of Mk.54 torpedo's, despite the fact the UK has a large stockpile of superior Stingray Mod 1's....its all rather embarassing, and they'd rather not talk about it...

Suspect you may have been thinking of this...

https://imgur.com/vpPjTYt
View: https://imgur.com/vpPjTYt
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Fitting Stingrays would have required the UK to foot the bill for integration. Cheaper by far to buy Mk54s.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Fitting Stingrays would have required the UK to foot the bill for integration. Cheaper by far to buy Mk54s.
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The mission system in P-8 is pretty much the same as MRA.4. Plus we own hundreds of Stingray already...and the Norgies do...

I suspect the cost of purchasing a tiny number of Mk.54 is not that different to Stingray integration costs....
 
timmymagic said:
Scott Kenny said:
Fitting Stingrays would have required the UK to foot the bill for integration. Cheaper by far to buy Mk54s.
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The mission system in P-8 is pretty much the same as MRA.4. Plus we own hundreds of Stingray already...and the Norgies do...

I suspect the cost of purchasing a tiny number of Mk.54 is not that different to Stingray integration costs....
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Yeah, you'd think so, but apparently not, according to the people who had the budgets and plans in hand.
 
timmymagic said:
The mission system in P-8 is pretty much the same as MRA.4. Plus we own hundreds of Stingray already...and the Norgies do...

I suspect the cost of purchasing a tiny number of Mk.54 is not that different to Stingray integration costs....
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I keep wondering about the business case in such situations as well - this is far from the only example. Consider the F-35, where there are two weird decisions worth examining IMHO: lack of probe/drogue refueling on the F-35A and the choice of the GAU-12 as the gun. In the former case, while by far the largest customer uses boom refueling, imposing that (questionable, even for the USAF) choice on virtually all export users is rather unsatisfactory. Especially considering the fact that there is space reserved and a workable installation available off the shelf due to the Navy and STOVL variants.

Similar story with the gun - the only export customer that also uses the GAU-12 (Italy) is an even larger user of the BK-27 and would likely gladly ditch the Gatling from its logistics. In the UK and Germany, two more major F-35 forces are BK-27 users and Spain is one that is a potential future sales prospect - and nobody else anywhere uses the GAU-12. Again, there is even some prior work to fall back on, as the BK-27 was in fact once supposed to be the gun of choice for the F-35!

Here in Germany the first projected cost overrun for the F-35 buy has already reared its head, and it is explicitly related to "infrastructure". I bet you part of that is standing up logistics for the GAU-12 from scratch and possibly some items related to boom refueling*, since the F-35 is the only such receiver in the Luftwaffe inventory. Given the sums involved (and these costs accruing for other operators as well), it seems that if all affected users pitched in it would easily pay for integration of the BK-27 and a probe.

* Operator training? The shared tanker fleet does already come with booms, due to existing Dutch and Norwegian requirements, but I suppose Germany would not previously have been interested in maintaining a cadre of boom operators.
 
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Man, the Ukrainian AOs and avionics crowd must be losing their minds trying to integrate all this western hardware onto old Soviet leftovers...
 
Late Christmas Day or early Tuesday, Ukrainian air force bombers struck, and apparently destroyed, the Russian Black Sea Fleet landing ship Novocherkassk in the port of Feodosia in southeastern Crimea.
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It’s apparent what happened, as the Ukrainian air force has just one major anti-ship platform: the cruise-missile-armed Sukhoi Su-24 bomber. Launching from western Ukraine and angling southeast, supersonic Sukhois launched either British-made Storm Shadow cruise missiles or French-made SCALP-EGs.
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www.forbes.com

Ukrainian Bombers Just Blew Up Another Russian Warship. ‘Russia’s Fleet Is Getting Smaller And Smaller!’

Late Christmas Day or early Tuesday, Ukrainian air force bombers struck the Russian Black Sea Fleet landing ship 'Novocherkassk' in Feodosia in southeastern Crimea.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
What a fantastic successor for the Exocet missile. So glad that French and Brits managed to build that together 10 years after the evil of the Malvinas/Falkland war.

Wonder where we are with these M2K rumors?
 
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Are we sure that’s a Russian position? They seem oddly amused by the presence of the cruise missiles.
 
Josh_TN said:
Are we sure that’s a Russian position? They seem oddly amused by the presence of the cruise missiles.
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They do seem to have fired a missile, note smoke trail. Original source says it's from Crimea.

t.me

KARYMAT

Крилаті ракети Storm Shadow/SCALP преспокійно пролітають повз розрахунок ЗРК С-300/400 ЗС РФ в Криму 31 січня KARYMAT
t.me t.me

1707250193774.png
 
Josh_TN said:
Are we sure that’s a Russian position? They seem oddly amused by the presence of the cruise missiles.
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That's not entirely inconsistent with a Russian position: "Oh thank god, it wasn't targeted on us"

Plus he seems to be running away from the vehicles.

There's a reasonable amount of speech, a Russian linguist might be able to tell more.
 

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