SCALP / Storm Shadow / MdCN

kqcke for you said:
Interresting. Only ~1000km range but a ~500kg warhead?
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As I mentioned earlier, the MdCN uses a turbojet engine rather than a turbofan like the Tomahawk, so it needs to reduce to a 300kg warhead to manage 1,400km from a ship launch. Germany however uses a turbofan in their Taurus, so maybe they can collaborate. Interestingly, the sub-launched MdCN also only has 1,000km range, so maybe that also has a 500kg warhead.

You can see from this table that all the small Williams F122- series turbofans have lower SFCs than the Microturbo TRI 60- series jets. Sadly the SFC is not quoted for the Taurus one though.
 
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Forest Green said:
As I mentioned earlier, the MdCN uses a turbojet engine rather than a turbofan like the Tomahawk, so it needs to reduce to a 300kg warhead to manage 1,400km from a ship launch. Germany however uses a turbofan in their Taurus, so maybe they can collaborate.
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Then again that turbofan is an variation of the F415. Can't really see how france is buying that but maybe as part of/ for FC/ASW they developed an Turbofan already.
 
www.spacewar.com

Starmer signals Ukraine can use UK missiles to strike Russia

London (AFP) July 10, 2024 - Britain's Prime Minister Keir Starmer indicated on Wednesday that Ukraine can use long-range missiles supplied by the UK to strike military targets in Russia during their war.
www.spacewar.com
Starmer told reporters on his flight to Washington for NATO's 75th anniversary summit that decisions on the use of British-supplied Storm Shadow missiles were for the Ukrainian armed forces.
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kqcke for you said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1811429451433168921
View: https://x.com/BMVg_Bundeswehr/status/1811429451433168921https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/geme...ickeln-a-f9a2a007-d106-41f4-b920-b37b8cf4259b

A 2000km Cruise missile will LCM be? Then it probaly does have a turbofan.
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On the sidelines of the NATO summit, high-ranking military officials said that the idea behind the project was to develop a land-based cruise missile with a range of at least 2,000 kilometers, ideally even more.
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It's possible, if you replace the turbojet on the MdCN with a turbofan, that could increase range by around 75% based on sfc figures. Which would take the range with a 300kg warhead from 1,400km to 2,450km, and the range with the 500kg warhead would increase from 1,000km to 1,750km.
 
Forest Green said:
It's possible, if you replace the turbojet on the MdCN with a turbofan, that could increase range by around 75% based on sfc figures. Which would take the range with a 300kg warhead from 1,400km to 2,450km, and the range with the 500kg warhead would increase from 1,000km to 1,750km.
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Maybe they increase the warhead weight to 400km which gives ous around 2100km range.
 
Russians apparently are doing this with some of their cruise missiles regarding modifications for turbofan engines. With the big old cruise missiles you can apparently get pretty ridiculous flight ranges and time. I think there are rumors that the izd720 is essentially the kh-69 with turbofan and radar guidance. The extra reach would allow much greater flexibility in curving around anti air batteries and heavily surveilled areas.
 
I Just found this PDF which says that TRI-50 has an SPFC of 2,64 lbs/daN/h. After i searched some more i found some information which gave me a round about number for an conversion too lb/hr/lbst which would give ous an SPFC of 5,829 lb/hr/lbst for it. Tought this may be wrong as the SPFC for TRI-60 in there is different to what i know. Even then TRI-50 is everything but efficient and the 1000-1400km range sounds kinda crazy to me if the numbers are right.
 

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The TR-50 turbojet in the MdCN is about 1.05 lb/lbf.hr (assuming similar to TR60 in Storm Shadow, I think I converted once and it was slightly worse), assuming it's the same as the Storm Shadow.

The Tomahawk turbofan is 0.683 lb/lbf.hr.
en.wikipedia.org

Williams F107 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
kqcke for you said:
I Just found this PDF which says that TRI-50 has an SPFC of 2,64 lbs/daN/h. After i searched some more i found some information which gave me a round about number for an conversion too lb/hr/lbst which would give ous an SPFC of 5,829 lb/hr/lbst for it. Tought this may be wrong as the SPFC for TRI-60 in there is different to what i know. Even then TRI-50 is everything but efficient and the 1000-1400km range sounds kinda crazy to me if the numbers are right.
Click to expand...
Your conversion is correct but you are employing it wrong, since the measurement is lb fuel/unit force. Therefore you need to divide 2.64 by 5.829/2.64, which is 2.64/2.208, which is 1.2lb/lbf.hr. Which is very poor compared to a Tomahawk engine.
 
Forest Green said:
The TR-50 turbojet in the MdCN is about 1.05 lb/lbf.hr (assuming similar to TR60 in Storm Shadow, I think I converted once and it was slightly worse), assuming it's the same as the Storm Shadow.

The Tomahawk turbofan is 0.683 lb/lbf.hr.
en.wikipedia.org

Williams F107 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
I know tought the question is if it changes within the F-107 variants. Also didn't the newer TLAMs get the F145?
Forest Green said:
Your conversion is correct but you are employing it wrong, since the measurement is lb fuel/unit force. Therefore you need to divide 2.64 by 5.829/2.64, which is 2.64/2.208, which is 1.2lb/lbf.hr. Which is very poor compared to a Tomahawk engine.
Click to expand...
Okay so around half as efficient or twice as efficient with an Turbofan.
 
breakingdefense.com

Let it go (long): France joins Germany, Italy and Poland in new ELSA long-range missile project - Breaking Defense

In a separate event, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz told reporters that more long-range missiles in Europe were "necessary for deterrence and peace."
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
www.defensenews.com

MBDA eyes a long-range strike missile boom in Europe

The firm has presented its Land Cruise Missile as a candidate for a new multinational pact aimed at developing and fielding long-range weapons in Europe.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
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Compared to NCM the LCM will get the increased range (nothing new but probaly a turbofan as we talked about) as well as flight controls, navigation and target acquisition. They want to implement a lot of lessons of the ukraine war and in general have a higher survivablility. Also as some guessed before Taurus will influence the missile probaly in the engine department (if there is no european alternative) and guidance.
https://www.handelsblatt.com/untern...-das-plant-die-industrie-jetzt/100052409.html
 

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