Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider (LRS-B)

Hydroman said:
Since the B-21 probably shares configuration elements with the unmanned, so-called RQ-180 (or whatever the real designation is) this may be the reason for the twilight roll-out. Disclosure of the unmanned platform could be down the road, maybe?
Click to expand...
There will probably be an RQ-180 taxing past in the background just to see if anyone spots it in the gloom.
 
Kat Tsun said:
Except it won't?

If the B-21 doesn't reach the number of production needed, it's more likely the US simply won't have a bomber leg of the triad anymore, rather than soldier on with an old airplane, though. The reason for 100 B-21s minimum is obvious: that replaces the 76 B-52Hs and the 21 20 B-2s in the GSC's order of battle, with spares.

B-52 will be gone in 20 to 30 years and likely sooner than later, whether it wants to be or not. Even if it's still there on paper it may very well end up being hollowed out to pay for new aircraft. If the USAF has to, I suspect it will cut into B-52 operational squadrons, and kill the re-engine program (or at least heavily foot drag it, like the A-10 rewinging program), to pay for B-21 and bring their squadrons online. Shuffling funding around from A-10s or B-52s to fund JSF or B-21 is pretty trivial.

The new bomber just needs to make the hop from testing to production, which it seems to be doing rather better than B-2, which is sort of to be expected. If B-21 doesn't shake out at the end of the day, then I think the US simply won't have a bomber force in the future. It's not a terrible outcome. Both Britain and France lack strategic bombers and they do just fine as regional powers go, and America could yet go the same way in the future.

Submarines are more survivable and silos have better readiness rates, after all. With those two alone, America will still have a strategic ladder to climb to the top of its nuclear awning and shout into the escalation vortex, even if it's not a three-legged barstool to slap someone over the back with in the Thermonuclear Bar Brawl 20XX, or whatever overwrought analogy of the day is being used.
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The B-21 fleet is needed to replace the B-1 and B-2 fleets, which until recently was 80+ aircraft. As it is a smaller and lighter platform than either previous bomber, it was to be bought in greater numbers (plus the B-2 force was never adequate). The USAF uses bombers for numerous conventional roles; in fact it doesn't even bother maintaining bombers on alert and the nuclear mission seems to occupy a dozen bombers at Minot and perhaps some of the B-2 fleet (I believe only 12 are scored as "deployed" nuclear assets). What the USAF desperately needs the B-21 for now is the Pacific theater - the distances involved and the PRC ballistic missile threat make tactical aircraft problematic. So far the B-21 is more or less on time and budget, which has be about the only major program in decades that can make that boast. Since the EMD aircraft are to be near copies of the production models, it seems likely this will be a very successful program and that at least the original hundred get made. I suspect the USAF will move whatever funds it has to for continued production beyond that number given what the aircraft brings to the table. I don't think however that will include any changes to the B-52's status; it is expected to operate for a couple more decades at least.
 
flateric said:
8 p.m. EST
Click to expand...
www.ebay.com

NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Same design

Also off topic - but notice on that coin: B2, B21, X47A/B, YF23 & Tacit Blue. All real aircraft. XST, was this ever known to have a flying prototype?
 
Black Dog said:
flateric said:
8 p.m. EST
Click to expand...
www.ebay.com

NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Same design

Also off topic - but notice on that coin: B2, B21, X47A/B, YF23 & Tacit Blue. All real aircraft. XST, was this ever known to have a flying prototype?
Click to expand...
XST, no. Tunnel and pole models only.
 
Cancerman said:
Black Dog said:
flateric said:
8 p.m. EST
Click to expand...
www.ebay.com

NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Same design

Also off topic - but notice on that coin: B2, B21, X47A/B, YF23 & Tacit Blue. All real aircraft. XST, was this ever known to have a flying prototype?
Click to expand...
XST, no. Tunnel and pole models only.
Click to expand...
Seems odd they put it on there then, especially given this seems to be the actual B-21 design. Why have a bunch of real aircraft and one concept that supposedly never flew? I mean you can still make the argument that Northrop's XST was not a "stealth technology leader" since it lost the competiton (would have provided much valuable in-house knowledge regardless), but who knows where else it went in the black world...
 
Is there a NOTAM issued already?

AirNav: KPMD - Palmdale USAF Plant 42 Airport

Complete aeronautical information about Palmdale USAF Plant 42 Airport (Palmdale, CA, USA), including location, runways, taxiways, navaids, radio frequencies, FBO information, fuel prices, sunrise and sunset times, aerial photo, airport diagram.
www.airnav.com
 
Black Dog said:
Seems odd they put it on there then, especially given this seems to be the actual B-21 design. Why have a bunch of real aircraft and one concept that supposedly never flew? I mean you can still make the argument that Northrop's XST was not a "stealth technology leader" since it lost the competiton (would have provided much valuable in-house knowledge regardless), but who knows where else it went in the black world...
Click to expand...
Why it seems odd to you? Just clandestine white world projects of Northrop LO dept. Why you have decided that putting them together means they all were flown?
 
red admiral said:
Maro.Kyo said:
The real question now... Is AW planning another flyover with their Cessna?
Click to expand...
Surely they'll be expecting that one. Need to pay PlanetLabs or someone to get satellite coverage?
Click to expand...

Of course, DoD knows the orbital timing of all of these (though with as many commercial imagery sats as there are these days, I'm not sure how long a window you can get when none of them are overhead). But most of them have shutter control or exclusive use agreements with DoD that restrict images of sensitive facilities.

And honestly, the best commercial images aren't so good that you could get meaningful detail of an aircraft-sized target. Remember the mysterious "transparent tent" image? The six-pixel blob on the runway at Groom Lake? That's the level of fidelity to expect from commercial optical imagery.

Plus, twilight/nighttime rollout. Not a great time for optical imaging as a general rule.
 
FighterJock said:
TomcatViP said:
And what about a roll-out inside a hangar. For Christ sake, this is winter already. Even Southern California can feel cold with a strong wind.
Click to expand...

You do not want to damage the stealth coatings on the B-21 by having the roll-out outside, think of the cost of having to repaint the bomber.
Click to expand...
... In Vantablack.

Chris
 
Black Dog said:
Cancerman said:
Black Dog said:
flateric said:
8 p.m. EST
Click to expand...
www.ebay.com

NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Same design

Also off topic - but notice on that coin: B2, B21, X47A/B, YF23 & Tacit Blue. All real aircraft. XST, was this ever known to have a flying prototype?
Click to expand...
XST, no. Tunnel and pole models only.
Click to expand...
Seems odd they put it on there then, especially given this seems to be the actual B-21 design. Why have a bunch of real aircraft and one concept that supposedly never flew? I mean you can still make the argument that Northrop's XST was not a "stealth technology leader" since it lost the competiton (would have provided much valuable in-house knowledge regardless), but who knows where else it went in the black world...
Click to expand...
XST was a mission specific design. We made some "mistakes" if you will, that gave away too much to the other teams design. Our approach was different than theirs. Once we figured out our approach, we no longer were giving it away to the competitors. Both designs were very one dimensional, so to speak. The F117 fit in the "Box" better than our XST. The Northrop XST design died then and there as we were offered the BSAX contract which had a different "Box". We started from scratch, refining our approach, working on the mathematics, honing the RCS understandings, etc. It took a breakthrough that led to the success of Tacit Blue. From there, we were on fire, unleashing on different parts of the plane design, and applying what we learned from the labs, tunnel and range. Even Lockheed's XST, the Have Blue, had serious design issues that had to be corrected before the production prototypes started constructions. They were learning as they went also. There design with the flat plates demonstrated better on the pole than our blended approach did for the "box" we were designing for. They beat us on that one.
 
FighterJock said:
TomcatViP said:
And what about a roll-out inside a hangar. For Christ sake, this is winter already. Even Southern California can feel cold with a strong wind.
Click to expand...

You do not want to damage the stealth coatings on the B-21 by having the roll-out outside, think of the cost of having to repaint the bomber.
Click to expand...
It took a while before USAF was allows to wash the B-2 like any other aircraft (make sure to get behind those intakes now). At the CTF early on, the maintenance folks used buckets and swabs on the top of the jet to clean it and me being former USN, ribbed them about really wanting to be squids.
 
Cue mysterious drone swarm...

Seriously, if the USAF was that worried about leaking the secrets of the most awesome mega-stealth airplane [sic] ever built, then they wouldn't be doing outdoors and making a song and dance routine out of it with B-25s etc. (B-25 = digital camera magnet for a start)

Doing it indoors, hidden under the Stars and Stripes, shrouded in dry ice and blinding the audience with a laser show like a dodgy 90s music video would be much safer.

I feel less excited than I should be (I think NGAD could be more exciting). But then after seven years and 3,052 posts on this topic we can't expect too many surprises.
 
Cancerman said:
Black Dog said:
Cancerman said:
Black Dog said:
flateric said:
8 p.m. EST
Click to expand...
www.ebay.com

NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORTHROP GRUMMAN STEALTH COIN - B-21 RAIDER, B-2 SPIRIT, YF-23, X-47B, BOMBER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Same design

Also off topic - but notice on that coin: B2, B21, X47A/B, YF23 & Tacit Blue. All real aircraft. XST, was this ever known to have a flying prototype?
Click to expand...
XST, no. Tunnel and pole models only.
Click to expand...
Seems odd they put it on there then, especially given this seems to be the actual B-21 design. Why have a bunch of real aircraft and one concept that supposedly never flew? I mean you can still make the argument that Northrop's XST was not a "stealth technology leader" since it lost the competiton (would have provided much valuable in-house knowledge regardless), but who knows where else it went in the black world...
Click to expand...
XST was a mission specific design. We made some "mistakes" if you will, that gave away too much to the other teams design. Our approach was different than theirs. Once we figured out our approach, we no longer were giving it away to the competitors. Both designs were very one dimensional, so to speak. The F117 fit in the "Box" better than our XST. The Northrop XST design died then and there as we were offered the BSAX contract which had a different "Box". We started from scratch, refining our approach, working on the mathematics, honing the RCS understandings, etc. It took a breakthrough that led to the success of Tacit Blue. From there, we were on fire, unleashing on different parts of the plane design, and applying what we learned from the labs, tunnel and range. Even Lockheed's XST, the Have Blue, had serious design issues that had to be corrected before the production prototypes started constructions. They were learning as they went also. There design with the flat plates demonstrated better on the pole than our blended approach did for the "box" we were designing for. They beat us on that one.
Click to expand...
Very informative, thank you! I feel there is so much interesting history that is hidden or has been for a lot of these old black programs or ones that we don't even know about!
 
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