Man in space

The 'hooks' make sense, possibly with an attatched backstrap too for the rider to lean against ? (If anyone asks, call it a hommage to Herbert's work) :)
 
True, lol. Seeing as how the selenites treat the mooncalves more as horses than gods, perhaps they employ reigns with hooks that hook onto the millipedes mandibles? Plus on top of that maybe the reigns could have a built in seat that the rider leans against, rather than just a piece of rope?
TsrJoe said:
The 'hooks' make sense, possibly with an attatched backstrap too for the rider to lean against ? (If anyone asks, call it a hommage to Herbert's work) :)
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I say chaps, something that would be quite interesting to work with could be that this version of the moon has a Fossil Record. Admittedly, probably not a very large one, as conditions would be quite limiting, but still a fairly substantial record. I must say, this panel a gentleman posted on page 3 might be a good start, definitely there will be a moment like this in-game.
As for conditions, the moon did once have an atmosphere, and even a large subsurface ocean, so what sort of life might evolve and reside in such conditions? Air would still be fairly thin on the surface, and in the moons' interior.

any ideas?

1717672927612.png
 
I wonder if it might be worth contacting Stephen Baxter? As an sf writer, he's shown a continual interest in history's might-have-beens, particularly alternative history with the Brits in space. He's also collaborated with other authors, such as Arthur C Clarke and Terry Pratchett and the estate of HG Wells. Two spinoffs of that are a short story, 'The Ant Men of Tibet', inspired by The First Men in the Moon, and the novel, The Time Ships, inspired by The Time Machine, and The Massacre of Mankind, inspired by The War of the Worlds. He's obviously open to discussion if you want to make an approach. There's an early novel by him, Anti-Ice, that is kind of steampunk, inspired by Wells and Verne. and there are various short stories and a couple of novels in the past few years, World Engineers: Destroyer and World Engineers: Creator, which feature a classic dumbbell-shaped spaceship.

He's known for doing a LOT of research.
 
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Rhinocrates said:
I wonder if it might be worth contacting Stephen Baxter? As an sf writer, he's shown a continual interest in history's might-have-beens, particularly alternative history with the Brits in space. He's also collaborated with other authors, such as Arthur C Clarke and Terry Pratchett and the estate of HG Wells. Two spinoffs of that are a short story, 'The Ant Men of Tibet', inspired by The First Men in the Moon, and the novel, The Time Ships, inspired by The Time Machine, and The Massacre of Mankind, inspired by The War of the Worlds. He's obviously open to discussion if you want to make an approach. There's an early novel by him, Anti-Ice, that is kind of steampunk, inspired by Wells and Verne. and there are various short stories and a couple of novels in the past few years, World Engineers: Destroyer and World Engineers: Creator, which feature a classic dumbbell-shaped spaceship.

He's known for doing a LOT of research.
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It is done, didn't he write Voyage, now you mention it?
 
'Prospero One' is another of Stephen's shorts of possible interest (my favourite of his of course being 'Titan')

re. fossil record, might be worth looking at the Burgess Shale deposits as a parallel ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgess_Shale

Cambrian explosion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

and as a 'cut off point' for evolution deviation, possibly the Permian Extinction Event ? ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian–Triassic_extinction_event

(the latter may theoretically give rise to a different evolution path between the planets assuming a common 'porridge just right' start point ?)
 
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TsrJoe said:
'Prospero One' is another of Stephen's shorts of possible interest (my favourite of his of course being 'Titan')

re. fossil record, might be worth looking at the Burgess Shale deposits as a parallel ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgess_Shale

and as a 'cut off point' for evolution deviation, possibly the Permian Extinction Event ? ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian–Triassic_extinction_event

(the latter may theoretically give rise to a different evolution path between the planets assuming a common 'porridge just right' start point ?)
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perhaps, most life would probably reside in the great ocean beneath the moon's crust for much of its history, so maybe more Cambrian life would be appropriate?
 
Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
perhaps, most life would probably reside in the great ocean beneath the moon's crust for much of its history, so maybe more Cambrian life would be appropriate?
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From The First Men in the Moon, Chapter 22, Bedford describing Cavor's transmissions.

"The caverns and passages are naturally very torturous. A large proportion of these ways are known only to expert pilots among the fishermen and not infrequently Selenites are lost for ever in their labyrinths. In their remoter recesses, I am told, strange creatures lurk, some of them so terrible and dangerous that all the science of the moon has been unable to exterminate them. There is particularly the Rapha, an inextricable mass of clutching tentacles that one hacks to pieces only to multiply; and the Tzee, a darting creature that is never seen, so subtly and suddenly does it slay..."
[...]
"Among their catch was a many-tentaculate evil-eyed black thing, ferociously active, whose appearance they greeted with shrieks and twitters and which they hacked to pieces with quick nervous movements. All its dissevered limbs continued to lash and writhe in a vicious manner. Afterwards when fever had hold of me I dreamt again and again of that bitter, furious creature rising so vigorous and active out of the unknown sea. It was the most active and malignant thing of all the living creatures I have seen in this world inside the moon...

"The surface of this sea must be very nearly two hundred miles (if not more) below the level of the moon's exterior; all the cities of the moon lie, I learned, immediately above this Central Sea in such cavernous spaces and artificial galleries, as I have described, and they communicate with the exterior by enormous vertical shafts which open invariably in what are called by earthly astronomers the 'craters' of the moon.
 
Rhinocrates said:
From The First Men in the Moon, Chapter 22, Bedford describing Cavor's transmissions.

"The caverns and passages are naturally very torturous. A large proportion of these ways are known only to expert pilots among the fishermen and not infrequently Selenites are lost for ever in their labyrinths. In their remoter recesses, I am told, strange creatures lurk, some of them so terrible and dangerous that all the science of the moon has been unable to exterminate them. There is particularly the Rapha, an inextricable mass of clutching tentacles that one hacks to pieces only to multiply; and the Tzee, a darting creature that is never seen, so subtly and suddenly does it slay..."
[...]
"Among their catch was a many-tentaculate evil-eyed black thing, ferociously active, whose appearance they greeted with shrieks and twitters and which they hacked to pieces with quick nervous movements. All its dissevered limbs continued to lash and writhe in a vicious manner. Afterwards when fever had hold of me I dreamt again and again of that bitter, furious creature rising so vigorous and active out of the unknown sea. It was the most active and malignant thing of all the living creatures I have seen in this world inside the moon...

"The surface of this sea must be very nearly two hundred miles (if not more) below the level of the moon's exterior; all the cities of the moon lie, I learned, immediately above this Central Sea in such cavernous spaces and artificial galleries, as I have described, and they communicate with the exterior by enormous vertical shafts which open invariably in what are called by earthly astronomers the 'craters' of the moon.
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maybe the "many-tentaculate evil-eyed black thing" may still reside in the ocean (which has frozen over, several feet in certain places, but there's still water beneath), and perhaps the other two may make some great fossils the player could see in the walls, which became selenite legend?
 
Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
The US flag is an absolute given, but it would be the 49 star flag as Hawaii wasn't a state yet when the game takes place.
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Careful - since Alaska was admitted to the Union as the 49th State on January 3, 1959, and Hawaii was admitted to the Union as the 50th State on August 21, 1959, using 49 stars actually would narrow the time span of your game to less than eight months in 1959. Based on the timeline you've presented before, it sounds however like the whole game may well be over long before 1959, so for that you would have to use a US flag with 48 stars, assuming of course that the events of the game have no effect on both admission dates whatsoever.
 
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martinbayer said:
Careful - since Alaska was admitted to the Union as the 49th State on January 3, 1959, and Hawaii was admitted to the Union as the 50th State on August 21, 1959, using 49 stars actually would narrow the time span of your game to less than eight months in 1959. Based on the timeline you've presented before, it sounds however like the whole game may well be over before long before 1959, so for that you would have to use a US flag with 48 stars, assuming of course that the events of the game have no effect on both admission dates whatsoever.
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damn, I really should have looked more into that, thanks man, a revision will be made. Any ideas about the lunar fossil record?
 
martinbayer said:
A little proactive research often goes a surprisingly long way ;), but I'm drawing a complete blank when it comes to any lunar fossil record...
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true, I suppose research is why we're where we are now? As for the fossil record, I'll have a ponder on the moon's prehistory and get back to ye
 
Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
As for the fossil record, I'll have a ponder on the moon's prehistory and get back to ye
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Don't worry, getting back to me on any fictional lunar fossil record should be the very least of your priorities - I have neither the background nor the interest in speculating on clearly counterfactual stuff like that.
 
martinbayer said:
Don't worry, getting back to me on any fictional lunar fossil record should be the very least of your priorities - I have neither the background nor the interest in speculating on clearly counterfactual stuff like that.
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fair enough, while I ponder this next to a well-lit fireplace with some brandy, what should I get back to you on?
 
Future fully reusable space launch and exploration systems based on TRL6+ maturity, but I'm afraid that clashes with your postulated timeline.
 
martinbayer said:
Sure, if you have one, it's a good start.
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Project Megaroc seems a reasonable place to start, so lets begin:

October 1945: Operation Backfire's reports on the V2's components and capabilities are picked up by the British Interplanetary Society, who promptly question whether it would be possible to place a man in the Nose Cone of a V2 (TRL 1)

February, 1946: R.A Smith writes a letter, detailing the proposal to the Ministry Of Supply, requesting funding for the project, detailing how the research gathered could be applied to a wide-range of fields and help advance modern science, by testing radio communication through the ionosphere, human performance over a wide range of g-conditions, and observations could be made of the Earth and the Sun . Funding is approved later that month (TRL 2)

March 1946: Those within the British Interplanetary Society who helped tie the proposal are then shipped to the facilities at Cruxhaven in a Lancaster, which carries in the bomb bay a 20ft tall model of Megaroc, and in a smaller parcel all the necessary information on modifications to the pre-existing Cruxhaven site. (TRL 3)

April, 1946: Working fast to meet the ministry's deadline of December 1947, the Blueprints drawn up at Cruxhaven by the English and German engineers are relayed via the Ministry to various aircraft manufacturers, with contracts for the Booster being given to Avro, and the capsule contract being awarded to Bristol and Normalair as a joint venture. (TRL 3)

June, 1946: A mockup of the capsule is delivered to the Cruxhaven site by Bristol and Normalair, for crew training and evaluation. It is suspended via cable, so that the astronaut may be trained in control of orientation and spin. (TRL 4)

August, 1946: Avro delivers the first of 3 boosters, and 3 spare engines that can be used to verify the A-4s ability to withstand a longer duration burn. The boosters and engines are tested at a new firing site. (TRL 5)

November, 1946: An unmanned booster and capsule is readied for launch, on the night of the 15th. It is used as a demonstrator that the booster can withstand the longer duration burn, and if the capsule can withstand space and recovery. The missile is radio-telecontrolled from the Cruxhaven blockhouse, and the capsule makes a landing in a nearby field, while the booster splashes down off the coast, and is recovered. (TRL 6)

December 1946: The test is repeated in front of an audience of top brass (including Attlee), scientists, and representatives of the Ministry of Aviation and Ministry of Supply. Once more the test is a resounding success, and Megaroc and its booster are deemed safe for manned usage. (TRL 7)

January - November, 1947: The Megaroc Men (picked the previous June), continue their training for another six months, each making slightly higher manned flights until the 8th November 1947, when the first Man entered space, at an altitude of 1 million feet. (TRL 8)

does this suffice?
 
A comet could impact near caves, water pours in and the caves collapse.

Mooncalf based on armored tardigrades.

Here, you might have evolution construct hardshell spacesuits with more adventurous tardigrades digging to caves with lower and lower atmospheric pressure---slow adaptation--more pressure loss.

Then perhaps right out onto the surface.

Some are like ant-lions in the bottom of craters--sarlacc like.

Here, tardigrade calves are fed to be used as airlocks, with aft appendages to water in caves.

I could see tiny fish-eggs blown from Earth impactors landing on the Moon with caves also collapsing after them to form seals.

I want some to be like electric eels.

I read in phys.org that the fields caused by real eels can change DNA of other fish--so here is a Frankenstein connection as well.

You'll need that extra juice for evolution seeing as there is less to work with here.
 
publiusr said:
A comet could impact near caves, water pours in and the caves collapse.

Mooncalf based on armored tardigrades.

Here, you might have evolution construct hardshell spacesuits with more adventurous tardigrades digging to caves with lower and lower atmospheric pressure---slow adaptation--more pressure loss.

Then perhaps right out onto the surface.

Some are like ant-lions in the bottom of craters--sarlacc like.

Here, tardigrade calves are fed to be used as airlocks, with aft appendages to water in caves.

I could see tiny fish-eggs blown from Earth impactors landing on the Moon with caves also collapsing after them to form seals.

I want some to be like electric eels.

I read in phys.org that the fields caused by real eels can change DNA of other fish--so here is a Frankenstein connection as well.

You'll need that extra juice for evolution seeing as there is less to work with here.
Click to expand...
I love it, except how might a natural spacesuit evolve? I'm confused
also, what exactly do you mean that water pours in when the caves collapse?
 
Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
Project Megaroc seems a reasonable place to start, so lets begin:

October 1945: Operation Backfire's reports on the V2's components and capabilities are picked up by the British Interplanetary Society, who promptly question whether it would be possible to place a man in the Nose Cone of a V2 (TRL 1)

February, 1946: R.A Smith writes a letter, detailing the proposal to the Ministry Of Supply, requesting funding for the project, detailing how the research gathered could be applied to a wide-range of fields and help advance modern science, by testing radio communication through the ionosphere, human performance over a wide range of g-conditions, and observations could be made of the Earth and the Sun . Funding is approved later that month (TRL 2)

March 1946: Those within the British Interplanetary Society who helped tie the proposal are then shipped to the facilities at Cruxhaven in a Lancaster, which carries in the bomb bay a 20ft tall model of Megaroc, and in a smaller parcel all the necessary information on modifications to the pre-existing Cruxhaven site. (TRL 3)

April, 1946: Working fast to meet the ministry's deadline of December 1947, the Blueprints drawn up at Cruxhaven by the English and German engineers are relayed via the Ministry to various aircraft manufacturers, with contracts for the Booster being given to Avro, and the capsule contract being awarded to Bristol and Normalair as a joint venture. (TRL 3)

June, 1946: A mockup of the capsule is delivered to the Cruxhaven site by Bristol and Normalair, for crew training and evaluation. It is suspended via cable, so that the astronaut may be trained in control of orientation and spin. (TRL 4)

August, 1946: Avro delivers the first of 3 boosters, and 3 spare engines that can be used to verify the A-4s ability to withstand a longer duration burn. The boosters and engines are tested at a new firing site. (TRL 5)

November, 1946: An unmanned booster and capsule is readied for launch, on the night of the 15th. It is used as a demonstrator that the booster can withstand the longer duration burn, and if the capsule can withstand space and recovery. The missile is radio-telecontrolled from the Cruxhaven blockhouse, and the capsule makes a landing in a nearby field, while the booster splashes down off the coast, and is recovered. (TRL 6)

December 1946: The test is repeated in front of an audience of top brass (including Attlee), scientists, and representatives of the Ministry of Aviation and Ministry of Supply. Once more the test is a resounding success, and Megaroc and its booster are deemed safe for manned usage. (TRL 7)

January - November, 1947: The Megaroc Men (picked the previous June), continue their training for another six months, each making slightly higher manned flights until the 8th November 1947, when the first Man entered space, at an altitude of 1 million feet. (TRL 8)

does this suffice?
Click to expand...
The following saying by Wernher Von Braun comes to mind: “Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” The timeline of a little more than two years for a crewed suborbital flight, even with theoretically unlimited spending (which in the austere British postwar economic environment appears highly improbable) seems extremely optimistic and not to contain any contingency reserves. But it's your story, man :)!
 
martinbayer said:
The following saying by Wernher Von Braun comes to mind: “Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” The timeline of a little more than two years for a crewed suborbital flight, even with theoretically unlimited spending (which in the austere British postwar economic environment appears highly improbable) seems extremely optimistic and not to contain any contingency reserves. But it's your story, man :)!
Click to expand...
well, considering that the Soviet Union is seen as less of a threat (thanks to commissar Litvinov advocating for openness with the west and acceptance of Marshall plan aid), this means that more budget can be allocated elsewhere, this is why the Miles M.52 flys in the timeline, and why Megaroc can go ahead. Its not too hard to believe such a thing is possible when, in our own timeline, the british government spent some £12,000,000 (about £568,000,000 in today's money) on the Bristol Brabazon, which was canned only 5 years later, meaning it was a total loss for the taxpayer. At least megaroc could promise some return on investment, that could lead to better and higher flying fighter planes, for example.

Admittedly, the timeframe is a little unrealistic, but to get man to the moon by 1955-56, this is what I got to work with :)
 
martinbayer said:
So what's driving that particular deadline?
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upstaging the US and USSR, since Britain is a declining world superpower (they do still retain most of the empire by the mid 50s, but the writing is on the wall, and Malaysia leaves before the Malayan emergency can occur), so they opt for outdoing the other two in scientific gain
 
Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
I love it, except how might a natural spacesuit evolve? I'm confused
also, what exactly do you mean that water pours in when the caves collapse?
Click to expand...
Some comets hit Earth and Moon…lots of water splashing about flows into lunar caves with the entrance collapsing to keep water inside in a liquid state perhaps.

Over time, water bears toughen up…burrowing to other caves with some leaks so pressure drops—repeat.

Over generations, their hides get toughened into de facto pressure suits.

These tardigrades are like low intelligence shoggoths that may not need as much oxygen.

Another strain of Earth’s tardigrades goes in the opposite direction…going deeper in where more water and higher atmospheric pressure can be had.

They—like creatures on islands—stay smaller…although they grow too in the lunar gravity.

These are the selenites.

Everything is a water bear.
 
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Ummm. Water doesn't "splash about" in a vacuum. It either sublimates or freezes. Low or no atmospheric pressure causes water loss by these processes.

How do the water bears grow to a size that accommodates enough neural development?
 
publiusr said:
Some comets hit Earth and Moon…lots of water splashing about flows into lunar caves with the entrance collapsing to keep water inside in a liquid state perhaps.

Over time, water bears toughen up…burrowing to other caves with some leaks so pressure drops—repeat.

Over generations, their hides get toughened into de facto pressure suits.

These tardigrades are like low intelligence shoggoths that may not need as much oxygen.

Another strain of Earth’s tardigrades goes in the opposite direction…going deeper in where more water and higher atmospheric pressure can be had.

They—like creatures on islands—stay smaller…although they grow too in the lunar gravity.

These are the selenites.

Everything is a water bear.
Click to expand...
personally, given that Wells described them as "ant-like beings", I personally thought that the moon-calves and the selenites evolved from insects or a similar progenitor species, with the selenites gaining sapience. As for the moon-calves, I personally was considering something more akin to a trilobite? It would make more sense for them to have evolved in a less-oxygen rich environment. Either that or something like a horseshoe crab
 
There are theories
That interior of Moon contain water allot water
Since lunar mantel has much lower temperature as on earth, It could contain liquid.
Only issue to confirm that Theories is to drill 60 km down true the Moon crust…

Stephen Baxter play with this theories in his novels

In this case the Wells Selenites, could have drill down into lunar mantel to get water.

en.wikipedia.org

Lunar water - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Michel Van said:
There are theories
That interior of Moon contain water allot water
Since lunar mantel has much lower temperature as on earth, It could contain liquid.
Only issue to confirm that Theories is to drill 60 km down true the Moon crust…

Stephen Baxter play with this theories in his novels

In this case the Wells Selenites, could have drill down into lunar mantel to get water.

en.wikipedia.org

Lunar water - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Actually, my original idea of the subsurface ocean could work well with the drilling and ice fishing: Deep-bore ice fishing lol

Maybe not 60km but still a fairly substantial distance to drill.

Good thinking Batman!
 
martinbayer said:
So what's driving that particular deadline?
Click to expand...
upstaging the US and USSR, since Britain is a declining world superpower (they do still retain most of the empire by the mid 50s, but the writing is on the wall, and Malaysia leaves before the Malayan emergency can occur), so they opt for outdoing the other two in scientific gain
 

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