Man in space

Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
thoughts on the scriptures lads?
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my issue with intro is Copyright
i don't known if this intro is from H.G Wells 1897 Novel or Movie The War of the Worlds of 1953.
The Novel is now public domain, but the Movie still has some Copyright chain up with lawyers
you can before fade in back put the text H.G. Wells the Wars of the Worlds 1897
just to be on safe side, because lawyers are worst that Wells Martians...

The Officers mess scene match perfect as stage setting and good old Empire mood needed for story.
This part can even run as video before game interaction start, like in game Half-Life were Gordon start his day at work
 
Some of the language doesnt quite read in period, and in terms used, il have a scribble and get it back to you
 
Britain's postwar occupation in Kenya is more controversial these days. But then so is our use of Woomera. A fictional location in the Indian Ocean might dodge any sensitivities or maybe Singapore?
 
uk 75 said:
Britain's postwar occupation in Kenya is more controversial these days. But then so is our use of Woomera. A fictional location in the Indian Ocean might dodge any sensitivities or maybe Singapore?
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Perhaps, but I was going off of what the BIS had originally written, and R.A Smith's paintings, which all depict a launch site (the Rocket Research Establishment) in the Kenyan Highlands. I have changed it to a coastal launch site to avoid the potential for dropping spent stages on unsuspecting Kenyan citizens.

Given that this is alternate history, however, perhaps a potential workaround could be that Kenya secedes from the Empire earlier than anticipated (around 1955-56), but the Kenyan government allows the continued operation of the RRE in exchange for "renting" the land that it resides on, in a similar deal to Baikonur and the Kazakh government? Either that, or perhaps the astronaut corps, being men and women of strong moral fibre, could protest at the prospect of violence upon their Kenyan neighbours by local police?
TsrJoe said:
Some of the language doesnt quite read in period, and in terms used, il have a scribble and get it back to you
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Which parts exactly?
Michel Van said:
my issue with intro is Copyright
i don't known if this intro is from H.G Wells 1897 Novel or Movie The War of the Worlds of 1953.
The Novel is now public domain, but the Movie still has some Copyright chain up with lawyers
you can before fade in back put the text H.G. Wells the Wars of the Worlds 1897
just to be on safe side, because lawyers are worst that Wells Martians...

The Officers mess scene match perfect as stage setting and good old Empire mood needed for story.
This part can even run as video before game interaction start, like in game Half-Life were Gordon start his day at work
Click to expand...
The intro is a sort of combination of the two, as I wanted to cement the idea that the solar system is much more different than our own, allowing the idea of extraterrestrial life to seem more reasonable in the eyes of the player. The '53 film was a big influence, although with hindsight, perhaps I should have aimed for something more like the animated segment from Disney's 1957 "Mars and Beyond", depicting how the solar system was perceived much closer to the actual time setting of the game?

View: https://youtu.be/dk7lf2D848I?si=aHgLC_ir4aQxIyCR&t=1443
 
Worth reading in detail is the Wikipedia entry on Kenya in those days

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mau Mau rebellion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Like most Brits of my age I only ever heard the Brit side of things from my parents. Even allowing for modern attitudes it was a shameful episode in our history.
 
uk 75 said:
Worth reading in detail is the Wikipedia entry on Kenya in those days

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mau Mau rebellion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Like most Brits of my age I only ever heard the Brit side of things from my parents. Even allowing for modern attitudes it was a shameful episode in our history.
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I am in full agreement, as was the Malayan Emergency. Simply awful. But, as I said, I wish to stay faithful to what was written, so would it be possible that Britain, already spending much on the space programme, could see no use in spending yet more to keep Kenya as an empire territory. Therefore Churchill may be more willing to negotiate with the Kenyan land army simply because there is no other option. While certainly not the nicest the outcome, it may be much nicer than the one we actually have.
 
Re-writing history to suit a British narrative probably makes it worse.
If you are familiar with Ennis's graphic novel "Ministry of Space" he combined Dan Dare technology with a biting view of British politics.
The 1960s film Guns at Batasi will give you a flavour for the class and race attitudes of the Brits of your period. Many of the types and voices you need for your story.
View: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8o7u7o

So you could stick to real world Kenya in the background with various shades of Brits and locals.
 
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uk 75 said:
Re-writing history to suit a British narrative probably makes it worse.
If you are familiar with Ennis's graphic novel "Ministry of Space" he combined Dan Dare technology with a biting view of British politics.
The 1960s film Guns at Batasi will give you a flavour for the class and race attitudes of the Brits of your period. Many of the types and voices you need for your story.
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ooh, yeah I didn't think of that. That might be very god reference. I doubt that the higher ups of the Astronaut corps would be as racist as perhaps Warren Ellis proposed, having had to work with and seen people of all creeds and races fight with them against the germans. How do you think it would go down if the RRE was built in Kenya?
uk 75 said:
Ministry of Space
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God I hate that graphic novel so much, it makes me irrationally mad
 
There is also Virgin's Dan Dare re imagining.
I think Guns of Batasi is a good steer as it covers the range of contemporary attitudes.
Disney have blocked it on you tube.
 
hmm, what would have happened if the RRE had been built in Kenya I wonder? Perhaps the Kenyans would target it during the Mau Mau uprising? Would an agreement be reached between Anthony Eden and the Rebel Leaders?
uk 75 said:
There is also Virgin's Dan Dare re imagining.
I think Guns of Batasi is a good steer as it covers the range of contemporary attitudes.
Disney have blocked it on you tube.
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Ennis underestimates the complexity of British society. His Apartheid style door scene at the end forgets how many Brits suppprted US black service men in WW2
But equally a black woman has just won a racial harassment case against the MOD.
Race was and is an issue.
Broad well drawn characters help. Maybe find a Kenyan to help you.
 
uk 75 said:
Ennis underestimates the complexity of British society. His Apartheid style door scene at the end forgets how many Brits suppprted US black service men in WW2
But equally a black woman has just won a racial harassment case against the MOD.
Race was and is an issue.
Broad well drawn characters help. Maybe find a Kenyan to help you.
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hmm, good point. Given that this is such a slippery slope of being handled poorly, how do you recommend I go about this? How might I contact a Kenyan with the necessary knowledge?
 
Good question?
Depends a bit where you are.
In the UK most universities have Kenyan students. The British Council has offices around the world and take an interest in writers so they might help.
The Kenyan High Commission in London will have a Press and Public affairs section. They may be able to help you get a Kenyan view
 
uk 75 said:
Good question?
Depends a bit where you are.
In the UK most universities have Kenyan students. The British Council has offices around the world and take an interest in writers so they might help.
The Kenyan High Commission in London will have a Press and Public affairs section. They may be able to help you get a Kenyan view
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What would you recommend that I ask them? This is a situation that will be a little bit different to explain
 
Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
What would you recommend that I ask them? This is a situation that will be a little bit different to explain
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Stick to the truth as you have told it here.
You may not get a helpful response but equally you may find someone interested in what you are doing.
You could start with family and friends or work contacts. They.may know something about Kenya or any Kenyans.
Research is never wasted.
 
uk 75 said:
Stick to the truth as you have told it here.
You may not get a helpful response but equally you may find someone interested in what you are doing.
You could start with family and friends or work contacts. They.may know something about Kenya or any Kenyans.
Research is never wasted.
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I live in norfolk, this is as white as it gets lmao. But yeah, I'll carry it up the chain where I can
 
Well, you probably need to watch some old films and tv from the early.1960s. Wikipedia and Youtube help here.
Your family may be a good place to start or teaçhers.
Its a long time ago now. I was only 4 in 1960 and I am now nearly 70:so there are not many people alive who remember first hand.
novels and history books are a good place to start and websites.
 
uk 75 said:
Well, you probably need to watch some old films and tv from the early.1960s. Wikipedia and Youtube help here.
Your family may be a good place to start or teaçhers.
Its a long time ago now. I was only 4 in 1960 and I am now nearly 70:so there are not many people alive who remember first hand.
novels and history books are a good place to start and websites.
Click to expand...
It may not be the best shout, but perhaps a site like Reddit could be useful to contact actual Kenyans for consultation on this matter?
 
Depending on how much early rocket background you want to read, other possible sources (free, online PDFs) for early rocket engine development are:
Pursuit of Power
NASA’s Propulsion Systems Laboratory No. 1 and 2
Pursuit of Power
and:
To Defend and Deter US Cold War Missiles

On the nuclear rocket program:
NASA Nuclear Frontier-The Plum Brook Reactor
and:
NASA Nuclear Rocket Program
and:
Nuclear Rocket Tests

and on the Russian side
Rockets and People. 4 volumes as PDFs:
Rockets and People

and Rocket Engines from the Glushko Design Bureau
Siddiqui- Glushko engines
 
TJDougherty01 said:
Depending on how much early rocket background you want to read, other possible sources (free, online PDFs) for early rocket engine development are:
Pursuit of Power
NASA’s Propulsion Systems Laboratory No. 1 and 2
Pursuit of Power
and:
To Defend and Deter US Cold War Missiles

On the nuclear rocket program:
NASA Nuclear Frontier-The Plum Brook Reactor
and:
NASA Nuclear Rocket Program
and:
Nuclear Rocket Tests

and on the Russian side
Rockets and People. 4 volumes as PDFs:
Rockets and People

and Rocket Engines from the Glushko Design Bureau
Siddiqui- Glushko engines
Click to expand...
Michel Van said:
i think this can help you, Gentleman's Astronautics
Evolution from 1940s V2 to 1950s Rocket
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFECEAp3pWU
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This may be very useful chaps, thank you. I've been wondering how exactly some of the massive engines envisaged by some of these pioneers would actually work lmao. Like the BIS lunar lander's engine, like is it a vacuum engine with a cylindrical nozzle as opposed to a more traditional oversized Bell Nozzle? 504.jpg


In addition chaps, might ye have any input on the Mau Mau uprising situation? I'm really starting to think about the "Kenya leaves early and the brits rent the land the RRE sits on" scenario as no alternatives have yet presented themselves, either in my mind or online.

Also, I don't suppose you fine fellows might have any pictures of the facilities at Woomera would you? Specifically the launch control rooms or a map of the village that is actually legible? Thanks
 
Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
Like the BIS lunar lander's engine, like is it a vacuum engine with a cylindrical nozzle as opposed to a more traditional oversized Bell Nozzle?
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i have no information what that central engine is, could be nuclear?

Gentleman’s Astronautics said:
Also, I don't suppose you fine fellows might have any pictures of the facilities at Woomera would you? Specifically the launch control rooms or a map of the village that is actually legible? Thanks
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have you try google maps ?
the Complex is still there

on the launch control rooms:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSpnQw25D7g


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwXLkKrk-Ko


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne8shDmcd5g&t=186s
 
It's an aerospace engine. Aerospike rocket engine
southwestforests said:
Oh, that's an easy answer, at least when using surgically excised quotes from Carl Sagan and NASA;







NASA Astrobiology

astrobiology.nasa.gov astrobiology.nasa.gov


Carl Sagan
Reference source,

We Are Made of Star-Stuff – Quote Investigator®

quoteinvestigator.com quoteinvestigator.com

Star stuff is star stuff is star stuff, no matter where you are.
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What Sagan meant was that the elements we are made of (carbon, nitrogen, etc. ) are synthesized in stars (at least up to iron, anything with more protons and neutrons was made in the extreme conditions of supernovas). It is the arrangement of those elements into complex molecules that the poster was referring to. Namely, the chances that any Martian (assuming no common origin and independent evolution) could utilize complex organic molecules from humans or other sources on earth are extremely low. Among the problems would be that any complex carbon molecules on this planet have particular stereochemistries, and, for example, enzymes can only engage on certain stereo configurations to catabolize molecules.

None of this was known in Well's time, and his objective was to write an allegorical story, disguised as science fiction, about British colonialism and its impact on native societies and local resources.
 
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uk 75 said:
Well, you probably need to watch some old films and tv from the early.1960s. Wikipedia and Youtube help here.
Your family may be a good place to start or teaçhers.
Its a long time ago now. I was only 4 in 1960 and I am now nearly 70:so there are not many people alive who remember first hand.
novels and history books are a good place to start and websites.
Click to expand...
I have come up with a solution:
The Mau Mau uprising still takes place in 1952, and the RRE in particular is recognised as a particularly good site of political leverage by the rebels, resulting in some skirmishes with the RRE guards
Given that the site is an important asset to the British prestige and scientific industry, an armed contingent could be deployed to the RRE. This leads to a (somewhat short) siege of the RRE by rebel forces, armed with Russian small arms.

In turn, the RRE siege leads to Britain realising the grave nature of the situation, and that the Rebels mean business, thereby entering negotiations with the Rebels in late 1952, probably around about December. This leads to Kenya leaving the Empire the following year in January, however the launch site is allowed to continue to operate, under supervision from the Kenyan Army?
 
Alt history is a very sensitive subject. I have dipped into it for discussion of certain British projects in this thread. It soon unravels if you try to create a convincing world that was n't.
Particularly at the present time in UK British policy in Africa is a topic I would leave well alone.
 
I would leave the country unnamed in your story and refer to it as being " close to the Equator". This device was used by most writers until recently. The film I mentioned (Guns at Batasi 1964) does not mention either Kenya or Africa it simply takes place near a town called Batasi.
So just give your launch site a fictional name for its location and avoid too much detail not relevant to space travel.
 
Also gents, I’ve written some more script! Up to 8 pages now! What do you fine fellows think?

t.co

Script

The Next great adventure Script and story overview Narrator: No one would have believed, in the middle of the 20th century, that Human affairs were being scrutinized and studied by intelligences greater than man’s. Yet across the gulf of space on the Red Planet, intellects vast, cool and unsympa...
t.co t.co
 
Rhinocrates said:
Regarding discussions upstream on water, these might be used to fictionally justify large accessible bodies of water with a bit of handwaving (I'm not extrapolating that in reality). 'Some volcanic, thermal wibble wibble process causes caverns to open blah blah flood rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb life.'

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhOtFt5qH-0


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b__4rYGeu8
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I’ll give them a good read through, always good to have a scientific justification of lunar water in this case
 
I say chaps, I think I have just come across the perfect justification of the presence of Air in the moons caverns, with some supporting mathematics to boot!

From Holooly:

Grand Lunar Canals (Moscow Phys-Tech​

n one of his novels, H. G. Wells describes an encounter of amateur earthling astronauts with a lunar civilization living in very deep caverns beneath the surface of the Moon. The caverns are connected to the surface by long channels filled with air. The channel is dug between points A and B on the surface of the Moon so that the angle AOB = 90° (see Figure P.4.7). Assume that the air pressure in the middle of a channel is P0=1P0=1 atm. Estimate the air pressure in the channel near the surface of the Moon . The radius of the Moon a ≈ 1750 km. The acceleration due to gravity on the surface of the Moon gm≈g/6,gm≈g/6, where g is the acceleration due to gravity on the surface of the Earth.

Consider the atmosphere to be isothermal inside the channel. The pressure depends only on the distance from the center of the moon r (see Figure S.4.7), which implies that it is not impossible to have such cavities inside the Moon filled with gas (to say nothing of the presence of lunars).

S.4.7-1.jpg ​

 
i notice on my favourite hunting ground X (former Twitter) posts by Gentleman's Astronautics
I like this one
GYkHRdMXEAAoR3r
 

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