Man in space

[martinbayer]

Basically, either vanquish the martian foe in any which way that you can (linking up with the selenites to eliminate whatever martians lurk in the moons' interior) or to try and delay and kill as many of the enemy as you can in a hasty retreat (linking up with the survivors to blow up the nuclear reactor and bid a hasty retreat back to earth)

OK, so Mars *IS* on the agenda. Are humans flying to Mars first or vice versa?

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

OK, so Mars *IS* on the agenda. Are humans flying to Mars first or vice versa?

mars flies to the moon specifically, to use it as a staging post for better observation of the earth. However they didn't account for the moonbase, as the side it was built on is facing away from it. Once the invasion is dealt with, with either method, Humanity, or at least the three superpowers band together and use Von Braun's colliers plan to get to mars and either annihilate the martians or do some interplanetary diplomacy and manage to edge out a deal for the martians to have Venus

 

[martinbayer]

mars flies to the moon specifically, to use it as a staging post for better observation of the earth. However they didn't account for the moonbase, as the side it was built on is facing away from it.

What is the *it* that the side the moonbase was built on is facing away from? In the solar system, everything revolves constantly, whether just around the sun, itself, or a planet, so eventually (at least in theory, assuming extremely powerful Martian telescopes) you'd be able to observe all of the Moon's surface from Mars (although ironically you can't from Earth itself). Also, you should offer an explanation why the Martians would turn their attention to Earth just at the exact time that humans begin spaceflight, e.g. they have been watching us and were alarmed when they were seeing orbital launches (although that would *REALLY* require some humongous super duper telescope...).

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

What is the *it* that the side the moonbase was built on is facing away from? In the solar system, everything revolves constantly, whether just around the sun, itself, or a planet, so eventually (at least in theory, assuming extremely powerful Martian telescopes) you'd be able to observe all of the Moon's surface from Mars (although ironically you can't from Earth itself). Also, you should offer an explanation why the Martians would turn their attention to Earth just at the exact time that humans begin spaceflight, e.g. they have been watching us and were alarmed when they were seeing orbital launches (although that would *REALLY* require some humongous super duper telescope...).

Actually, yeah that does make more sense I suppose, with the moonbase likely being so insignificantly small they'd probably just ignore it outright. As for the orbital launch observations, I suppose for the martians it would be a "its now or never" moment to escape their dying world

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

The more I look at your flight suit mr. Van, the more it appeals to me as more and more in-line with the aesthetic. I mean, it would be nice to have the hard helmets of Fred Freeman's illustrations, to go down the more 'fighter pilot' look, but to be fair, this does looks very cool, I'll make a sketch of it in my own style, and see how it goes!

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Yes and No
You need a believable infrastructure, most will be decor in your game, but give credit to Worldbuilding, convincing the player

Large Launch complex
Heavy Launch rocket, somehow that stuff in orbit on Moon and Mars has to be launch...
Manned Launch Rocket aka Space Shuttle and one with more then two seats
you can keep the Glider als British Military part like RoBo or Dyna Soar
need low orbit Space station ? or goes Shuttle direct to moon (nuclear engine ) or dock with nuclear Ferry for that ?
Surface Base and ground vehicle
need for interplanetary space craft that goes to Mars, Venus, Jupiter ?
All this need Power: Solar Thermal or Nuclear ? that influence the Design and needed Game engine for your game !
what i mean is the Large mirrors for Solar Thermal power plant and it rendering by game engine.

Realistic or Ray-Gun aesthetically pleasing ? since you walk in H.G. Wells territory !


Go ahead its free design, just put my name in small print as free contribution...

How’s this for the finalised garment? Not too changed from your design I hope?

 

[Michel Van]

i like it

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

i like it

any improvements you might recommend?

 

[Michel Van]

any improvements you might recommend?

no the suit is good,

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

ah jolly good! I'll try and make some more dynamic poses, plus some sketches of the cockpit layout and relevant stuff, like the pilots chair and navigator station and airlock etc.

I may need your help on that lads. For the pilots seat, I'm thinking something like a combination between a Bell X-1, an X-15 and what I can approximate from a Miles M.52 cockpit, with a hint of dyansoar. I may need your help with relevant instruments and suchlike

no the suit is good,

 

[Rhinocrates]

I've put this in the Artemis thread but it'll be handy reference here too perhaps. This is interesting showing how it feels to use an EMU. In this case it's the Axiom design for Artemis and mobility has been a priority in design - compare with the limited arm movement possible with the BIS suit.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FerFv7BZAwo&t=5s

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I've put this in the Artemis thread but it'll be handy reference here too perhaps. This is interesting showing how it feels to use an EMU. In this case it's the Axiom design for Artemis and mobility has been a priority in design - compare with the limited arm movement possible with the BIS suit.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FerFv7BZAwo&t=5s

I think that kind of mobility would be nicely applicable to the American spacesuits of this game and timeline, as they have been designed with peak mobility in mind, having been modelled after the BF Goodrich Tomato worm suits from '43

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

no the suit is good,

I say, is there any way I can keep one feature of my sketch, that I desperately want (and kind of need) for some extra swag for the individual astronaut? See I thought it would be cool if some astronauts had the traditional fliers Cravat protruding from their suit, seen in the first picture, but I’m not sure of a way to make it visible with the helmet in the way. Thoughts?

Also, side note, I finally found my out the name of the dark navy, sleeveless garment that some of our pilots wore in the fifties (seen on my most recent sketch of the suit too), the Pressure Jerkin from 1955, a Mk1, I’d presume, at least for the period anyway

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

What is the *it* that the side the moonbase was built on is facing away from? In the solar system, everything revolves constantly, whether just around the sun, itself, or a planet, so eventually (at least in theory, assuming extremely powerful Martian telescopes) you'd be able to observe all of the Moon's surface from Mars (although ironically you can't from Earth itself). Also, you should offer an explanation why the Martians would turn their attention to Earth just at the exact time that humans begin spaceflight, e.g. they have been watching us and were alarmed when they were seeing orbital launches (although that would *REALLY* require some humongous super duper telescope...).

temporarily sidetracking from the discussion about just how big the Martian telescope is, I started working on a sketch for the cockpit of the BIC Glider, the Bristol Type 211 Polestar. I know it’s extremely rough, but have I got the basic instrument positions down? Also, the kind of instruments the pilot of a rocket-plane of the calibre would be extremely helpful

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

also chaps, I'm quite stumped on the markings that the US astronauts should have, might ye have any ideas?

 

[southwestforests]

markings that the US astronauts should have, might ye have any ideas?

We do use our flag a lot, would be highly likely to have one on the suit somewhere.
Remember that when on a shoulder the blue canton, the hoist edge, is on the leading edge of flag as person faces forward.

One early Apollo mission one astronaut had a red helmet, right now the why embarrassingly escapes me, but it might be same reason the lead astronaut on spacewalks wears suit with red stripes.
Might want to ponder what effect a neither white nor silver helmet hue would have on spacesuit cooling.

In 1950s some US jet pilots had helmets painted gold. Again, the precise why escapes me right now, but it would be more reflective than red paint.

Ah, there's the image of the red spacesuit helmet,
https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/SearchPhotos/photo.pl?mission=AS09&roll=20&frame=3064

And the why, with bold added by me, (of given name Scott whereas this astronaut dude has surname Scott)

Image Caption: View of the docked Apollo 9 Command/Service Modules and Lunar Module, with Earth in the background, during Astronaut David R. Scott's stand-up extravehicular activity, on the fouth day of the Apollo 9 earth-orbital mission. Scott, command module pilot, is standing in the open hatch of the Command module. Astronaut Russell L. Schweickart, lunar module pilot, took this photograph of Scott from the porch of the Lunar Module.

 

[southwestforests]

This is a bit of a tangent from current spacesuit conversation; might be a bit of information overload to the players, or, might be some technical historicity to incorporate when ordering spacecraft to maneuver,

The Coordinate Axes Of Apollo-Saturn: Part 2

In my previous post on this topic, I described how flight engineers working on the Apollo programme assigned XYZ coordinate axes to the Saturn V launch vehicle and to the two Apollo spacecraft, the Command/Service Module (CSM) and the Lunar Module (LM). This time, I'm going to talk about how...

oikofuge.com

Building, Phenomena
The Coordinate Axes Of Apollo-Saturn: Part 2
18th December 2019 Oikofuge

In my previous post on this topic, I described how flight engineers working on the Apollo programme assigned XYZ coordinate axes to the Saturn V launch vehicle and to the two Apollo spacecraft, the Command/Service Module (CSM) and the Lunar Module (LM). This time, I’m going to talk about how these axes came into play when the launch vehicle and spacecraft were in motion. At various times during an Apollo mission, they would need to orientate themselves with an axis pointing in a specific direction, or rotate around an axis so as to point in a new direction. These axial rotations were designated roll, pitch and yaw, and the names were assigned in a way that would be familiar to the astronauts from their pilot training. To pitch an aircraft, you move the nose up or down; to yaw, you move the nose to the left or right; and to roll, you rotate around the long axis of the vehicle.

These concepts translated most easily to the axes of the CSM (note the windows on the upper right surface of the conical Command Module, which indicate the orientation of the astronauts while “flying” the spacecraft):

 

[Michel Van]

One early Apollo mission one astronaut had a red helmet

they were replaced by white thermal cover, as they internal go to hot during EVA.

 

[southwestforests]

go to hot during EVA

That's what I was expecting.
Even so, I really like the look.

In my own fiction the one faction uses red-orange helmets, the fiction assumes they figured out how to deal with the heating.
That's a nice thing about fiction, you can engineer the setting's reality to allow some different things from our own reality.

they were replaced by white thermal cover

That brings to mind how after the first moon landing, additional sun visors were added to the EVA suits.
Helmet thermal cover might have even been increased in area too, my recall of all this detail stuff is so sketchy today.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

wears suit with red stripes.

A big red stripe running down the middle of the helmet would go pretty hard, maybe even a big number stamped on it? The US flag is an absolute given, but it would be the 49 star flag as Hawaii wasn't a state yet when the game takes place. As for suit colouring, the whole suit is going to be in the Apollo prototype blue, to be able to differentiate them from the british and soviet astronauts, who both wear similar coloured suits.

In 1950s some US jet pilots had helmets painted gold. Again

Hmm, not quite what I had in mind, but did any jet pilots have any specific arm markings? I know that they painted their helmets in very vivid colours (especially in 'nam), but did they have any cool patches or heraldry even? I need something for reference for the Mission patch. In addition, what should NACAs logo be like?

This is a bit of a tangent from current spacesuit conversation; might be a bit of information overload to the players, or, might be some technical historicity to incorporate when ordering spacecraft to maneuver,

I must say, I did intend to have the player do a little bit of orbital rendezvous, so you've hit the nail on the head there, although it would have to be greatly simplified so as to not overwhelm the limited mathematical capabilities of the average gamer's tiny brain, lol.


also, what think of the cockpit for the glider? Good or nah?

 

[southwestforests]

I need something for reference for the Mission patch. In addition, what should NACAs logo be like?

Have a National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics logo patch photo;
which has a mission reference as part of its design,

Patch: National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics - NASA

Patch: National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics

www.nasa.gov

Explanation or story behind the patch: The National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) was the predecessor to NASA. In 1946, Walter C. Williams arrived at Muroc Army Air Base (one day destined to become Edwards Air Force Base) to take charge of the newly established NACA Muroc Unit on 30 September 1946 in support of the X-1 research program. NACA director Hugh L. Dryden officially established the NACA Muroc Flight Test Unit as a permanent facility, managed by NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory (LMAL) on 7 September 1947. It became independent of LMAL on 14 November 1949 as the NACA High-Speed Flight Research Station. The facility moved from South Base to the northwest shore of Rogers Dry Lake in July 1954 as the NACA High-Speed Flight Station. Employees received a patch with the NACA wings. Several examples of this patch include names (this one belonged to Betty Scott) and the date 1950 (although Betty joined the NACA in 1952).

 

[southwestforests]

what should NACAs logo be like?

This would be the actual logo design,

NACA Logo

Logo of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, founded in 1915.

airandspace.si.edu

 

[southwestforests]

Maybe NACA logo as done for this sign could be inspiration for something,

The History of Ames Research Center - NASA

Basic and applied research have been cornerstones of the work at NASA's center in the Silicon Valley of California since its founding as an aeronautical laboratory in December of 1939.

www.nasa.gov

 

[southwestforests]

NACA 20 year service lapel pin might also be reference for something,

Pin, Lapel, 20 Year Service, National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics

This pin was part of the 20-year service award that was given by the National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics (NACA) to its employees.

airandspace.si.edu

Note this 10 year pin is different silver instead of gold,

Pin, Lapel, 10 Year Service, National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics | Smithsonian Institution

www.si.edu

 

[southwestforests]

I need something for reference for the Mission patch.

Both this NACA patch and the entire 'Space Patch Database' website might be useful references,

National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA)

Early name of what NASA would become on October 1, 1958 as a result of Sputnik

www.spacepatchdatabase.com

 

[southwestforests]

Video here includes NACA logo three-dimensional on a building, got to the 18 second point in video,

CIRCA 1952 Various shots of the facilities and planes at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics' Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory.

https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1037040002-circa-1952-various-shots-facilities-planes-national

 

[southwestforests]

And that completes this morning's offer of what I know, what I know of, and what I chanced upon while looking for online references to those.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

And that completes this morning's offer of what I know, what I know of, and what I chanced upon while looking for online references to those.

Thanks man, I’ll see what I can do.
In the meantime, perhaps maybe go over the rough sketches I made of the cockpit interior for the glider, and perhaps ponder some improvements I could make, as I’m sure there’s something!

 

[southwestforests]

In the meantime, perhaps maybe go over the rough sketches

Welcome!
The going over will have to wait for another day, messy health is being messy and engaging in analytical thought is above my pay grade today.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Welcome!
The going over will have to wait for another day, messy health is being messy and engaging in analytical thought is above my pay grade today.

fair enough, plus I hope that messy mental health becomes orderly mental health soon!

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I've also managed to bang out the interior of the moon-tank, not quite finished, but near enough to be shown, what think eh?

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

what think chaps?

 

[publiusr]

Looks nice!

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Looks nice!

any improvements?

 

[publiusr]

I'm trying to think about modern computer equipment could be replaced with non-silicon, non-microchip fare

In a recent phys.org story I linked to elsewhere yesterday, there was this story about rubber computing.

I have this idea that I your retro-futuristic world, we saw something like "The Difference Engine" occur in the recent past, with Ramanujan's house perhaps having inherited rubber-tree wealth...With Brunel and Goddard having some ties.

In this would, the Sea Dragon concept got looked at earlier by the Royal Navy no less...no balloon tanks, no shrunken circuitry.

If you have any access to AI, perhaps ask it to develop Spacecraft where all subsystems are as heavy as possible with Sea Dragon scaled to fit it...like there was a nearby magnetar to deal with...the Soviets had some access to wood for space.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I'm trying to think about modern computer equipment could be replaced with non-silicon, non-microchip fare

In a recent phys.org story I linked to elsewhere yesterday, there was this story about rubber computing.

I have this idea that I your retro-futuristic world, we saw something like "The Difference Engine" occur in the recent past, with Ramanujan's house perhaps having inherited rubber-tree wealth...With Brunel and Goddard having some ties.

In this would, the Sea Dragon concept got looked at earlier by the Royal Navy no less...no balloon tanks, no shrunken circuitry.

If you have any access to AI, perhaps ask it to develop Spacecraft where all subsystems are as heavy as possible with Sea Dragon scaled to fit it...like there was a nearby magnetar to deal with...the Soviets had some access to wood for space.

I must admit, I was discussing something like this on a discord server, debating how exactly the BIC might tele-control their spacecraft, and we came to the conclusion that the could use morse, rather than traditional binary, leading to more advancement with radio control earlier than expected.

A super heavy lift vehicle, developed by the Royal Navy would be doubtful in this timeline, as most (if not all) space-related matters are under the supervision of the BIC, however that doesn't mean there can't be A) military payloads (this is a prerequisite of most spaceflight programmes), and B) that there can't be sea-launched rockets, for example, the BIC's lunar payload booster, Daedalus, employs a sea launching platform.

 

[publiusr]

In the USSR, you had the perfect storm of an emerging superpower on a war footing discovering secret German tech, lack of Boeing suits, betrayed by Western allies who propped up fallen axis powers and the Cosmists ideology with rockets as a symbol of Revolution to give the perfect environment for the rise of the Chief Designers and R-7.

Your scenario *demands* a non-existent RAF and no WWI.

A stronger Royal Navy working closer with Germany is a help ---but for rocketry to advance, I say aviation needs to take a hit.

That seems odd, but if the Wright Brothers had crashed and burned--with Goddard having Lindbergh's reception, the psychic stage is set.

Here, Korolev becomes a leading figure in Aviation and Russia aligns itself with the Ottoman empire against a Europe then untouched by war.

Germany, France and Britain then develop a love for space after an asteroid devastates Poland.

No aircraft carriers, LeMay and Rickover stillborn.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

In the USSR, you had the perfect storm of an emerging superpower on a war footing discovering secret German tech, lack of Boeing suits, betrayed by Western allies who propped up fallen axis powers and the Cosmists ideology with rockets as a symbol of Revolution to give the perfect environment for the rise of the Chief Designers and R-7.

Your scenario *demands* a non-existent RAF and no WWI.

A stronger Royal Navy working closer with Germany is a help ---but for rocketry to advance, I say aviation needs to take a hit.

That seems odd, but if the Wright Brothers had crashed and burned--with Goddard having Lindbergh's reception, the psychic stage is set.

Here, Korolev becomes a leading figure in Aviation and Russia aligns itself with the Ottoman empire against a Europe then untouched by war.

Germany, France and Britain then develop a love for space after an asteroid devastates Poland.

No aircraft carriers, LeMay and Rickover stillborn.

That is a... interesting timeline, to say the least, lol. Here's how I envisaged it in my head:

So, naturally, ww1 and ww2 still happen, as this is necessary for rocket development to get to the V2. WW2 finishes, but the spoils of peenemunde are divvied up more equally that in our own timeline, allowing Britain to get its hands on a handful of German rocket scientists, but predominantly we got the engineers that built and launched them. Operation Backfire goes ahead as normal, but R.A Smith's "Megaroc" proposal actually gets approval by the ministry of Supply (reason why I'll get to in a moment). The BIS then saunters down to the backfire facilities in September of '46. They then commandeer the facilities and the personnel (under army supervision, naturally) to build megaroc.

A notice is then distributed to RAF bases in the vanquished Germany and across Britain, particularly amongst the RAE, asking pilots whether they would be interested in flying a "wholly new kind of craft". There are over 600 applicants, but only about 250 make it through the interviews, and the group is finally whittled down to 10 after the medical exams. This group of 10 men (largely RAE test-pilots, including Eric Winkle Brown and the main character of the game this is for, David Alastair Rathbone), are presented to the public in April of '47, with the press calling them "The Megaroc Men".

They are then trained on the craft, which Eric dubbed "A most peculiar thing", using an operational mock-up of the cabin, suspended by a cable so that the pilot could be trained in control of orientation and spin. The pilots were also trained in the tele-control of an unmanned rocket and cabin assembly in free flight.

At last, after some 7 months of rigorous training, David Rathbone stepped into the Megaroc Capsule "Icarus", on the morning of November 5th 1947, and ascended to an altitude of 300km.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, how exactly was there funding to go around for this? Essentially, it is a combination of two major changes to the timeline: Roosevelt doesn't die in '45, and instead saunters on into 1954, where he then kicks the bucket. AND Stalin is more open with the west, and accepts Marshall Plan Aid, under the recommendation of Commissar Litvinov.

With Russia no longer seen as the next big enemy to defeat, this removes much of the Cold War tension, so funding for further A-Bomb tests is now redundant as there is no enemy now to use them on. This allows funding to be shifted around to more scientific-oriented projects, such as the Miles M.52, which Winkle used to break the sound barrier first in this timeline, spawning a bit of a "friendly rivalry" between the US and UK, and the soviets, not wanting to be outdone but also not wanting to compete directly with the west, do the same things but for anniversaries of the Party, for example, such as the launch of their first man in space.

hope this helps

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I'm still not quite sure about the mooncalf shit though, particularly my idea about the selenites riding them. If they did, then maybe the mooncalf would resemble a blend between the original illustrations, a victorian dinosaur and a millipede (because it is a little strange that the Selenites would evolve to be ant-like, but the surrounding fauna wouldn't take a similar path).

When it comes to riding them, I really really don't want to rip off dune, lest I be beaten with hammers by the Herberts, so how do I go about this? Perhaps the selenites could use lures made of the plankton to attract and keep the calf moving forward, but how do I let the selenite steer the mooncalf without ripping off the maker-hooks from Dune?

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Any thoughts on this chaps?