Man in space

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

made a rough sketch of a soviet astronaut in his overalls, what do you fellows think?

 

[martinbayer]

made a rough sketch of a soviet astronaut in his overalls, what do you fellows think?View attachment 731670

Any plans to consider female astronauts/cosmonauts in your alternate universe?

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Any plans to consider female astronauts/cosmonauts in your alternate universe?

given that there are female astronauts in the BIC astronaut corps (Rathbone's wife being one of them), I see no reason why there shouldn't be female cosmonauts.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Any plans to consider female astronauts/cosmonauts in your alternate universe?

any further queries about the megaroc timeline?

 

[martinbayer]

any further queries about the megaroc timeline?

Not so far . The technical leap to orbital missions will be most interesting. I'm aware that the Megaroc maximum terminal altitude was estimated at over 1,000,000 ft, but you could quibble whether only that would really constitute the (first suborbital) formal human entry into space, or whether that threshold might actually already have been crossed on one of the preceding test flights during gradual envelope expansion, e.g. when reaching the Kármán Line (although it was only postulated in 1959) or another similar limit, see alternatives at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kármán_line.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I'm aware that the Megaroc maximum terminal altitude was estimated at over 1,000,000 ft, but you could quibble whether only that would really constitute the (first suborbital) formal human entry into space, or whether that threshold might actually already have been crossed on one of the preceding test flights during gradual envelope expansion

true, although I do think that the BIC would probably set an arbitrary figure to go by, perhaps preceded by a series of sounding rocket flights, to see where the air is thinnest and then say "ah, yes, space starts.... hmmm... there", probably closer to the American air force boundary of space at about 80km, if I recall.
The megaroc test flights, in my mind, would have been made up to the arbitrary boundary, then "the big one" would go the whole hog and do the 1,000,000ft

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Not so far . The technical leap to orbital missions will be most interesting. I'm aware that the Megaroc maximum terminal altitude was estimated at over 1,000,000 ft, but you could quibble whether only that would really constitute the (first suborbital) formal human entry into space, or whether that threshold might actually already have been crossed on one of the preceding test flights during gradual envelope expansion, e.g. when reaching the Kármán Line (although it was only postulated in 1959) or another similar limit, see alternatives at

okay, we got the TRL series for the BIC Winged Orbital Rocket:

mid-1948: The Ministry of supply issues the BIC with Specification X.9/48 - An orbital glider capable of Orbital Photo-recon and scientific payloads and experiments (TRL1)

Late 1948: A rough design for the glider and booster is completed by the BIC design board, with a design brief held with Bristol Aviation for the Glider itself, Normalair for the glider's air conditioning systems, and Avro for the construction of the booster. (TRL2)

March 1949: The design for the glider itself is finalised, and delivered to Bristol Aviation works, after thorough investigation of the proof-of-concept design. The BIC expects a mock-up of the design to be completed by the end of the year, and delivered to the RRE for crew-training and evaluation. (TRL3)

Summer 1949: Avro reports difficulties in the design of the booster, and so the design is altered to a 5-stage to orbit design that can be manufactured in time for the launch deadline of Summer 1951 (TRL3)

August 1949: a 1/3 scale model of the Glider is delivered by Bristol to the RRE for evaluation in wind tunnel and heating tests. It performs admirably in the Wind Tunnel Tests, however it underperforms in the Heating tests, and so a contract is issued to Turner And Newall for steel-lined asbestos lined tiles to increase the Glider's heating performance (TRL4)

November 1949: Bristol delivers a full-size prototype of the glider for vacuum tests and fuelling tests, which it excels at. The glider is now given the Winged Orbital Rocket designation by the BIC, with Bristol designating it as the Bristol type 244 Polestar, of which was to become its unofficial name (TRL5)

December 1949 - April 1950: Avro delivers each rocket stage it has completed for evaluation over a period 5 months, with the first stage being delivered on 10th December, and the 5th stage being delivered on April 4th. All are tested and test-fired as soon as was possible after their arrival. (TRL6)

February 1950: The glider, manned by Eric Winkle Brown and Ben Gunn, is towed by the BIC's lancaster to an altitude of 10 miles, and is released to fly as a rocket plane, climbing to an altitude of some 60 miles above the earth, setting a new world speed record at mach 4 as it did so. (TRL7)

November 1950: once the rocket booster stages have been test-fired and the glider approved by the Air Ministry for manned flight, a tele-controlled orbital flight is made on the 1st of november, after weather delays postponed the flight from its target date of the 25th of october. The flight is near flawless, but in the last leg of reentry, radio contact is lost, however the craft survives. It was not decided whether this was a natural phenomena, or an equipment failure, so the flight is repeated the following month, to the same results.

May 1951: After extensive training, two astronauts fly the craft up to a 200km by a 189km orbit, for a period of 16 hours, and then they return to earth. (TRL10)

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Okay gents, we now have the final form of the soviet spacesuit, the Sapsan DO-2

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

What do you gents think of the Frankenstein Full Pressure Suit? Any improvements?

 

[TsrJoe]

The helmet reminds me somewhat of the 'Theron' spacesuit from the first Dan Dare story. (Not in a negative way however having read how much research Frank Hampson and his team put into the original strip)

Re. the Soviet suit design, I am reminded of the issues Captain Haddock experienced with an extended antennae in Tintin's 'Destination Moon'

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

The helmet reminds me somewhat of the 'Theron' spacesuit from the first Dan Dare story. (Not in a negative way however having read how much research Frank Hampson and his team put into the original strip)

True, although I really tried to closely model it on the actual Frankenstein & sons Full pressure suit:

As for the Tintin aspect, this is also kind of true, and perhaps it would be nice to have a little homage to Tintin were one of the cosmonauts walks through a doorway and experiences the same problem, lol

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I say, I've been puzzling out how exactly the martians feed in my game. In the RPG you sent, they have a 3 foot long retractable bone in the mouths that is connected to a special valve in the heart as well as the lungs. They jab the bon into the victim's neck and drain the blood directly into the heart. Any ideas chaps?

 

[martinbayer]

Maybe they use giant straws ?

 

[Arjen]

I am silightly bemused by the notion of an alien metabolism's ability to process Earth organic material.

 

[southwestforests]

an alien metabolism's ability to process Earth organic material.

Oh, that's an easy answer, at least when using surgically excised quotes from Carl Sagan and NASA;

We’re all made of the stuff from stars!
...

Together, all of the various nucleosynthesis reactions explain how all of the matter that makes up our world and living things came to be. That’s why you’ll often hear people exclaim that we are made of star stuff.

Organic molecules are made in space:​

Simple organic molecules, some of which are the building blocks in the biochemical pathways of life, can be produced in space! Astrochemists can use telescopes to observe a large variety of organic molecules within the dusty clouds in our galaxy. Researchers have discovered organic molecules on the surfaces of asteroids and comets. Even some meteorites have a large number of organic molecules within them, showing us that they formed in space. Also, some astrobiologists working in laboratories can emulate the energetically dynamic conditions in interstellar space. For instance, they can take icy mixtures of water, methanol, carbon dioxide, ammonia, and other simple compounds and expose them to UV radiation (as they would be exposed to from stars in space). What such scientists observe is the production of simple amino acids, which are the basic unit of proteins. Proteins are large biological molecules which serve as structural components in all life forms, as well as perform the majority of life’s functions including DNA replication and repair, metabolism (how a life form makes energy from food), and responding to stimuli: all of which are fundamental to an organism’s daily life. This work shows that chemistry that naturally occurs in space can lead to the production of biologically-relevant molecules. Since these reactions are thought to be occurring wherever new stars and planets are formed, this implies amino acids could be introduced to the surfaces of all newly formed planets, and this process could have played a key role in the origin of life on Earth.

NASA Astrobiology

astrobiology.nasa.gov

Our Sun is a second- or third-generation star. All of the rocky and metallic material we stand on, the iron in our blood, the calcium in our teeth, the carbon in our genes were produced billions of years ago in the interior of a red giant star. We are made of star-stuff.

Carl Sagan
Reference source,

We Are Made of Star-Stuff – Quote Investigator®

quoteinvestigator.com

Star stuff is star stuff is star stuff, no matter where you are.

 

[Arjen]

I don't doubt Earth organic matter can be processed - if you try hard enough - into something suited to an alien's metabolism. Short of simply burning Earth organic matter and capturing the released energy, I doubt even carbon-based alien lifeforms will profit from ingesting Earth organic matter. Then consider non-carbon-based lifeforms.

Keeping any Earth carnivore on a cow's diet will kill it. Keeping a cow on a carnivore's diet will kill it.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I don't doubt Earth organic matter can be processed - if you try hard enough - into something suited to an alien's metabolism. Short of simply burning Earth organic matter and capturing the released energy, I doubt even carbon-based alien lifeforms will profit from ingesting Earth organic matter. Then consider non-carbon-based lifeforms.

Keeping any Earth carnivore on a cow's diet will kill it. Keeping a cow on a carnivore's diet will kill it.

well, going by what wells wrote, he implemented that the martians have a bipedal species that must have be analogous to mankind, as I believe they were implemented as a manner of explaining as to why the martians can feed upon us.

 

[Michel Van]

They jab the bon into the victim's neck and drain the blood directly into the heart. Any ideas chaps?

Moskito are perfect blood sucker...

 

[Rhinocrates]

FYI, FWIW, Claude Shepperson - The First Men in the Moon, The Strand magazine 1900-01.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I made a rough sketch of the "Bone Syringe" method, what do you fellows think?

I think I might go with it, not gonna lie

 

[martinbayer]

I made a rough sketch of the "Bone Syringe" method, what do you fellows think?

I think I might go with it, not gonna lie
View attachment 734888

What exactly is the level of credible realism you are striving for in this game (?), i.e. in terms of the NASA TRL scale, see https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/s...vigation-program/technology-readiness-levels/ (although I personally think there should be a TRL 0 added for basic principles postulated)? Because otherwise you're just blowing smoke...

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

What exactly is the level of credible realism you are striving for in this game (?), i.e. in terms of the NASA TRL scale, see https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/s...vigation-program/technology-readiness-levels/ (although I personally think there should be a TRL 0 added for basic principles postulated)? Because otherwise you're just blowing smoke...

probably somewhere from 4-6, by my reckoning?

 

[martinbayer]

probably somewhere from 4-6, by my reckoning?

At what point in time -the real UK 1950's or some alternate timeline?

 

[Michel Van]

What exactly is the level of credible realism you are striving for in this game (?), i.e. in terms of the NASA TRL scale,

You measure a Video game realism with NASA Technology Readiness Levels ?
On Game with Worldbuilding that is based on work of H.G. Wells !

Video Games are Entertainment , it depends more on how to tell the story to the player...

 

[Arjen]

well, going by what wells wrote, he implemented that the martians have a bipedal species that must have be analogous to mankind, as I believe they were implemented as a manner of explaining as to why the martians can feed upon us.

What a predator species feeds on has more to do with a prey's biochemistry than the prey's stance. I have little regard for Wells' grasp of biology, but if you want to produce a sequel to War Of The Worlds, using his world-building as a starting point - go for it, just make sure the story's internal logic is not breached. And concentrate on story-telling. I would like to learn what happens when fifties' Earth clashes with WOTW Martians. Plausible technology would be nice.

I don't mind fiction sinning against science, if the story is good. Frank Herbert's original Dune is fantasy masquerading as science fiction, but, after suspension of disbelief, I like the story.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

At what point in time -the real UK 1950's or some alternate timeline?

1950s technology, within reason, such as more analogue equivalents to apollo instruments. For example, a manual star finder that uses binocular vision, with a star globe in one eye, and a periscope in the other, allowing for star tracking manually. Essentially the spacecraft would be about as advanced in comparison to other machines as a B-29 to a B-17 was

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

What a predator species feeds on has more to do with a prey's biochemistry than the prey's stance. I have little regard for Wells' grasp of biology, but if you want to produce a sequel to War Of The Worlds, using his world-building as a starting point - go for it, just make sure the story's internal logic is not breached. And concentrate on story-telling. I would like to learn what happens when fifties' Earth clashes with WOTW Martians. Plausible technology would be nice.

I don't mind fiction sinning against science, if the story is good. Frank Herbert's original Dune is fantasy masquerading as science fiction, but, after suspension of disbelief, I like the story.

true, I would like to apply a fair amount of scientific reasoning to most of wells' ideas, but if the science must be bent in some places then so be it. But, I only want to bend it if I must, so, in order to retain the Martian's blood sucking habits, what would you suggest?

 

[martinbayer]

You measure a Video game realism with NASA Technology Readiness Levels ?

As an aerospace engineer, of course I do.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

As an aerospace engineer, of course I do.

fair enough, technical accuracy is some of the most important accuracy

 

[martinbayer]

fair enough, technical accuracy is some of the most important accuracy

I mostly concur, except I would strike "some of" from your statement above .

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I mostly concur, except I would strike "some of" from your statement above .

true

 

[Arjen]

in order to retain the Martian's blood sucking habits, what would you suggest?

Your drawing looks like a mosquito's sting scaled up. It should work. Some of the details provided by @Michel Van could be added, it depends on how much into the gruesome you'd want to go.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

Your drawing looks like a mosquito's sting scaled up. It should work. Some of the details provided by @Michel Van could be added, it depends on how much into the gruesome you'd want to go.

I want to go pretty gruesome, like I have thought of a scene where the player can actually see it happen rather than just listen to it in the curate scene.

 

[Michel Van]

As an aerospace engineer, of course I do.

Ok match my work the NASA Technology Readiness Levels ?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/next-lunar-colonisation-program.42456/

 

[martinbayer]

Ok match my work the NASA Technology Readiness Levels ?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/next-lunar-colonisation-program.42456/

Since the only specific technology element explicitly identified in the lander (let alone for the launch vehicle concepts) are the RL-10 rocket engines, and there are claims that the RL-10 was experimentally used with Methane, most likely in a ground test, the TRL would be 6.

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

huh, so thats how that works

 

[Michel Van]

Since the only specific technology element explicitly identified in the lander (let alone for the launch vehicle concepts) are the RL-10 rocket engines, and there are claims that the RL-10 was experimentally used with Methane, most likely in a ground test, the TRL would be 6.

Pratt & Whitney tested modified RL-1A-1 with Methane/Flox (Fluorine 82,6% rest Lox) in 1969 under NASA Contract NAS3-7950
it burn Methane quite well. i took Methalox since it give 60 day storage time in orbit for refuel mission.

For Launch rocket
I look into Nexus SSTO Hydrolox and the Middle version what use Kerolox / Methalox.
Nexus would simple in launch, landing, refurbishment. but Hydrogen does terrible thing to tanks.
Middle has higher launch and recovery cost, and refurbishment of Kerolox engine...
for more on this i would prefer we the discus on this matter Here:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/next-lunar-colonisation-program.42456/

 

[martinbayer]

Since the only specific technology element explicitly identified in the lander (let alone for the launch vehicle concepts) are the RL-10 rocket engines, and there are claims that the RL-10 was experimentally used with Methane, most likely in a ground test, the TRL would be 6.

The same process would apply in analogous fashion to all other system technologies and elements, such as structures, subsystems, etc..

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

I've been cooking up a rough draft of the script, man writing dialogue is hard. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PDge4Of2kImR3mU9FW3xoHvsLki07dPtAivxetgiuOg/edit

 

[Gentleman’s Astronautics]

thoughts on the scriptures lads?