Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[TomcatViP]

Speaking at the McAleese FY2022 Defense Programs Conference on May 12, Brown explained that he signed a letter from 132 House lawmakers to the body’s leadership urging full F-35 support because “it’s performing well” in “executing … real-world missions.”

The April 28 letter by the leaders of the Joint Strike Fighter Caucus urged the House leadership to support whatever request the services submit for buying F-35s in fiscal 2022 as well as any that appear on their “unfunded requirements” lists. The letter was prompted by recent comments from House subcommittee leaders Reps. John Garamendi (D-California) and Donald Norcross (D-New Jersey) that they would oppose adding any F-35s to service requests

Rep. Brown Explains Support for Full F-35 Buy | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The F-35's capabilities outweigh any challenges the program might have, and Congress should continue to fully fund it, says one member of the HASC.

www.airforcemag.com

 

[TomcatViP]

There is also the 388th now deployed in South West of France for the 2021 edition of exercise Trident (Mont de Marsan):

Hill F-35s Deploy to France for ‘Atlantic Trident’ | Air & Space Forces Magazine

F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, will take part in Atlantic Trident 21, a major France-led air exercise focused on integrating fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft.

www.airforcemag.com

U.S. Air Force F-35A Lightning IIs assigned to the 4th Fighter Squadron, Hill Air Force Base, Utah, taxi down the flight line at Mont-de-Marsan Air Base, France, upon arrival May 10, 2021. During their time in the European theater, the aircraft will take part in multiple events, including Atlantic Trident 21. U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Alexander Cook.

Notice how the picture appears to be heavily edited (and the temporary shelters on the left).

Hill F-35s Deploy to France for ‘Atlantic Trident’ | Air & Space Forces Magazine

F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, will take part in Atlantic Trident 21, a major France-led air exercise focused on integrating fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft.

www.airforcemag.com

 

[BDF]

You don't need a dedicated anti-radiation weapon to perform SEAD; in things like Red Flag there are 4-ships of F-35As outperforming (by a good margin) entire strike packages of legacy fighters. If the F-35s are going up against something like S-400 battalions, then the F-35 might get stagnated in their progress a bit, but at least their survivability would be a whole lot better and so you could employ larger packages of F-35s with SDBs, which at the very least will suppress them, if not overwhelm and destroy vehicles. An 8-ship package of F-35As for example could carry 64 SDBs internally; an S-400 battalion meanwhile has 8 TELs with 4 missiles each (up to 32 SAMs), and I doubt they could reload them in time; they'd therefore have to rely on their SHORAD defences to take out most of those weapons (even if the TELs did want to waste all their larger missiles on the SDBs), and if those SDBs are launched more or less simultaneously the SHORADs would be struggling to not let weapons slip through. The S-400 would potentially have enough time to pack up and leave before the bombs arrive, but even if they survive this encounter you'd successfully performed SEAD.

One issue with SDB's is their slow attack speed. The fly at max L/D, which I've heard in somwhere in the 450kt region. Easy fodder for SHORADs. There may be a direct attack mode which would make this attack more viable.

 

[Josh_TN]

I suspect SDB is actually a very small head on radar target, due to shape and size. And the low cost means that practically anything you send against it probably costs as much or more, so spamming an air defense system is practical both from an economic and warload sense (any aircraft can carry at least eight with some AAMs). But clearly a dedicated high speed weapon is needed as well for pop up threats, even you are will to play a slow game of attrition with an IADS.

 

[GARGEAN]

I suspect SDB is actually a very small head on radar target, due to shape and size.

Those wings are nasty reflectors even straight head-on. Modern systems can see them without big problems.

But yeah, as a saturation weapon it is near perfect, lacking only in range thus limiting possible targets to medium range systems.

 

[_Del_]

And the low cost means that practically anything you send against it probably costs as much or more

Beyond that, even if every SDB is successfully intercepted, there are a finite number of missiles at the front, and a smaller number loaded on launchers. Moving them around and loading them takes time creating a window of opportunity just as much as a successful bombstrike.

Those wings are nasty reflectors even straight head-on. Modern systems can see them without big problems.

That's what MALD (-J/N/X or whatever iteration is now being pushed) is for... At least in theory.

 

[GARGEAN]

That's what MALD (-J/N/X or whatever iteration is now being pushed) is for... At least in theory.

Yup. Everything should work as a system. There are no single "win button" there.

 

[Dragon029]

One issue with SDB's is their slow attack speed. The fly at max L/D, which I've heard in somwhere in the 450kt region. Easy fodder for SHORADs. There may be a direct attack mode which would make this attack more viable.

They could be relatively easy targets for SHORADs, but my intention with a simultaneous attack before was that most SHORADs can only do something like engage 2 targets simultaneously, leading to them only being capable of intercepting something like a dozen targets per minute. You'd naturally have multiple SHORADs defending, but they can also sometimes have weapons slip by (as we sometimes see in places like Syria), F-35s also have a fairly powerful EW suite that could potentially mess with SHORAD command-guidance or targeting. And then of course the 8-ship of F-35s was just an example of a somewhat fair fight; there's no reason you couldn't have 12, 16, etc F-35s going after a high value SAM. Realistically you'd also have Growlers in the distance providing some additional EW and possibly using some AARGMs; JASSMs, etc might also get involved and you could have things like MALDs / TALDs or newer equivalents participating.

Ultimately all that I've been saying is that while AARGM-ER will be quite nice to have for the F-35, it's not outright necessary for it to perform SEAD / DEAD, especially against the majority of SAMs out there that are just SA-2s, SA-3s, SA-6s, etc.

 

[Ronny]

I suspect SDB is actually a very small head on radar target, due to shape and size.

Those wings are nasty reflectors even straight head-on. Modern systems can see them without big problems.

But yeah, as a saturation weapon it is near perfect, lacking only in range thus limiting possible targets to medium range systems.

The British Spear and Spear-ew for their F-35B and Eurofighter seem like perfect saturation weapon. I wonder how long will it take for US to get their own version of that

 

[Foo Fighter]

I imagine negotiations are underway or have been concluded. Is it so hard for allies to work together? Sorry, silly me, I shall go and dunk my head.....

 

[DWG]

There is also the 388th now deployed in South West of France for the 2021 edition of exercise Trident (Mont de Marsan):

Hill F-35s Deploy to France for ‘Atlantic Trident’ | Air & Space Forces Magazine

F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, will take part in Atlantic Trident 21, a major France-led air exercise focused on integrating fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft.

www.airforcemag.com

U.S. Air Force F-35A Lightning IIs assigned to the 4th Fighter Squadron, Hill Air Force Base, Utah, taxi down the flight line at Mont-de-Marsan Air Base, France, upon arrival May 10, 2021. During their time in the European theater, the aircraft will take part in multiple events, including Atlantic Trident 21. U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Alexander Cook.

Notice how the picture appears to be heavily edited

Where are you seeing editing? There's a deceptive dip in the taxiway level if you're looking at the lack of visible wheels on the 'follow me' truck. You can see the variation in ground level matched in the rooflines of both the smaller and larger erectable shelters, which both slope slightly down to the point between them.

 

[Forest Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1392459238539149314

 

[aonestudio]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ0nwQ4wO2s

 

[TomcatViP]

Italian AF's F-35s deployed in Estonia execute the first interception of the type in Continental Europe (to be confirmed) :

The Italian F-35A involved in the intercept belong to the 13° Gruppo (Squadron) of the 32° Stormo (Wing), from Amendola Air Base, in southeastern Italy, the first unit of the Aeronautica Militare to receive the Lightning in 2016 and the first in Europe to achieve IOC (Initial Operational Capability) in November 2018.
[...]
Although it’s the first time they operate from Estonia, the Italian Air Force F-35A jets have already supported NATO Air Policing mission in Iceland twice: the first time was in 2019, the second in 2020, when the Italian Lightnings scrambled for the first time to intercept a formation of three Russian Tu-142s.

Italian Air Force Identifies Russian An-12 Off Estonia In First Ever Intercept By F-35 Supporting NATO BAP

The Italian F-35 jets deployed to Estonia, scored their first intercept under NATO command in the Baltic region. On May 14, 2021, the Italian Air Force

theaviationist.com

 

[TomcatViP]

There is also the 388th now deployed in South West of France for the 2021 edition of exercise Trident (Mont de Marsan):

Hill F-35s Deploy to France for ‘Atlantic Trident’ | Air & Space Forces Magazine

F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, will take part in Atlantic Trident 21, a major France-led air exercise focused on integrating fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft.

www.airforcemag.com

U.S. Air Force F-35A Lightning IIs assigned to the 4th Fighter Squadron, Hill Air Force Base, Utah, taxi down the flight line at Mont-de-Marsan Air Base, France, upon arrival May 10, 2021. During their time in the European theater, the aircraft will take part in multiple events, including Atlantic Trident 21. U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Alexander Cook.

Notice how the picture appears to be heavily edited (and the temporary shelters on the left).

Hill F-35s Deploy to France for ‘Atlantic Trident’ | Air & Space Forces Magazine

F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, will take part in Atlantic Trident 21, a major France-led air exercise focused on integrating fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft.

www.airforcemag.com

More details here (In Fr):
Typhoon, F-35, Rafale, F-22, M2K, HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier (with 18 F-35B (USMC included))!
And obviously, probably also the training units with Alphajets.

Probably a good time to hang around Cazaux AB (sea front - Rafale where deployed en masse there) if the weather is good.

Rafale, Mirage 2000, Typhoon et F-35 : pourquoi ces célèbres avions de chasse vont sillonner le ciel français

Plus de 50 appareils participent, à compter du 17 mai, à un exercice d’envergure regroupant les armées française, britannique et américaine., C’est un rendez-vous exceptionnel en France : trois armées

www.capital.fr

 

[sferrin]

I suspect SDB is actually a very small head on radar target, due to shape and size. And the low cost means that practically anything you send against it probably costs as much or more, so spamming an air defense system is practical both from an economic and warload sense (any aircraft can carry at least eight with some AAMs). But clearly a dedicated high speed weapon is needed as well for pop up threats, even you are will to play a slow game of attrition with an IADS.

Phalanx and Sea Wolf were shooting down artillery shells in the 80s. An SDB would be nothing for systems like this.

 

[Grey Havoc]

USAF to Cut F-35 Buy in Future Years Defense Plan

www.snafu-solomon.com

 

[sferrin]

"The Air Force will propose about a 10 percent cut in its planned F-35 purchases in the upcoming future years defense plan, citing sustainment costs for the jet well above what was expectd, and because the service prefers to wait for the more advanced Block 4 model. Budget talking points obtained by Air Force Magazine appear to show the USAF giving the F-35 program an ultimatum: Get costs under control over the next six to eight years or the overall buy will be sharply reduced. "

Cutting numbers because they want the more advanced block seems counterproductive to reducing costs. Imagine what the costs of the F-16A would have been if they'd slashed the numbers until the Block 30s came out.

 

[Deltafan]

There is also the 388th now deployed in South West of France for the 2021 edition of exercise Trident (Mont de Marsan):

Hill F-35s Deploy to France for ‘Atlantic Trident’ | Air & Space Forces Magazine

F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, will take part in Atlantic Trident 21, a major France-led air exercise focused on integrating fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft.

www.airforcemag.com

U.S. Air Force F-35A Lightning IIs assigned to the 4th Fighter Squadron, Hill Air Force Base, Utah, taxi down the flight line at Mont-de-Marsan Air Base, France, upon arrival May 10, 2021. During their time in the European theater, the aircraft will take part in multiple events, including Atlantic Trident 21. U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Alexander Cook.

Notice how the picture appears to be heavily edited (and the temporary shelters on the left).

Hill F-35s Deploy to France for ‘Atlantic Trident’ | Air & Space Forces Magazine

F-35s from Hill Air Force Base, Utah, will take part in Atlantic Trident 21, a major France-led air exercise focused on integrating fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft.

www.airforcemag.com

More details here (In Fr):
Typhoon, F-35, Rafale, F-22, M2K, HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier (with 18 F-35B (USMC included))!
And obviously, probably also the training units with Alphajets.

Probably a good time to hang around Cazaux AB (sea front - Rafale where deployed en masse there) if the weather is good.

Rafale, Mirage 2000, Typhoon et F-35 : pourquoi ces célèbres avions de chasse vont sillonner le ciel français

Plus de 50 appareils participent, à compter du 17 mai, à un exercice d’envergure regroupant les armées française, britannique et américaine., C’est un rendez-vous exceptionnel en France : trois armées

www.capital.fr

 

[Deltafan]

 

[Richard N]

Interesting that the F-35s generate strong vortices where the Rafales do not.

 

[helmutkohl]

Interesting that the F-35s generate strong vortices where the Rafales do not.

canard effects?

On the subject of Canards, I was wondering if they help in terms of carrier landings?

I just realized that the F-35 actually started as a delta canard at first, before evolving into what it is now

 

[sferrin]

Interesting that the F-35s generate strong vortices where the Rafales do not.

canard effects?

On the subject of Canards, I was wondering if they help in terms of carrier landings?

I just realized that the F-35 actually started as a delta canard at first, before evolving into what it is now

And before that it basically looked like a single-engine J-20.

 

[Maro.Kyo]

Interesting that the F-35s generate strong vortices where the Rafales do not.

canard effects?

On the subject of Canards, I was wondering if they help in terms of carrier landings?

I just realized that the F-35 actually started as a delta canard at first, before evolving into what it is now

There was also that Northrop NATF with canards as well, and from what I know, yes.

 

[Deltafan]

View: https://youtu.be/xAvgnMPANeE

 

[Richard N]

That F-35 canard was sitting outside in the weather at the LM Fort Worth plant in the 2000s.

 

[Bhurki]

Considering it carries twice the fuel load and 5000 lbs of armament in the belly (not to forget the fact that this variant can take off within 400 feet), F-35 doesn't look that much worse.

 

[eagle]

Those are A models so I doubt very much they can take off in 400 feet
Internal fuel is about 1.75 times that of the Rafale C. Would be about 1.3 for F-35B vs. Rafale C.

 

[Archibald]

It feels weird for me to look at those beautiful pictures of Rafales tangling with F-35s... and not only because it has a definite Buck Danny / Les chevaliers du ciel vibe.
I grew up in the background of these pictures, I could even been familiar with the road and houses seen there. Presently living in Bordeaux suburbs so far away from the mayhem it must be; but my mom is still living there, and she must be going full Abe Simpson against those noisy jets (I'm an aviation buff, my mom is not: Rafale are noisy things even 20 miles from Mont de Marsan runway.)

 

[rooster]

Interesting that the F-35s generate strong vortices where the Rafales do not.

Doesn't the 35 need to generate more lift and ie stronger vortices than the Rafales because its heavier?

A long time ago when I was going through flight instruction, I was taught to stay far away from anything heavy and slow because of stronger vortices than something small and lighter.

 

[Dragon029]

Interesting that the F-35s generate strong vortices where the Rafales do not.

Doesn't the 35 need to generate more lift and ie stronger vortices than the Rafales because its heavier?

A long time ago when I was going through flight instruction, I was taught to stay far away from anything heavy and slow because of stronger vortices than something small and lighter.

It also depends on the geometry at the wingtips; the way that the F-35's wingtips are sharp and parallel with the direction of airflow means that the air coming off the bottom of the wing can be all moving in the same direction as it wraps up towards the low pressure zone above the wing.

When you have launch rails and missiles on your wingtips, some of the air is wrapping up towards the top further inboard or outboard (due to gaps between the missile and rail, the different length of the missile, rail and wing chord, the fins on the missile, etc). Therefore some of the air curving around geometry is encountering other air flows whose velocity vectors are different than theirs; it may not be outright destructive interference, but it's not fully constructive either.

 

[TomcatViP]

General Dynamics Reaches Milestone With F-35 Radome Delivery; Carlo Zaffanella Quoted - ExecutiveBiz

Looking for the latest Government Contracting News? Check out our story: General Dynamics Reaches Milestone With F-35 Radome Delivery; Carlo Zaffanella

blog.executivebiz.com

 

[Bhurki]

Those are A models

That massive hump behind the canopy threw me off.

 

[bobbymike]

Pay article

Raytheon looks at integrating AMRAAM-ER in F-35A internal carriage

The US Air Force's F-35A could field two examples of the larger missile, one in each internal weapons bay.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Forest Green]

F-22 And F-35 Datalinks Finally Talk Freely With Each Other Thanks To A U-2 Flying Translator

Beyond linking up F-22s and F-35s, the U-2 and its gateway payload also connected naval and ground assets, and more.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Deltafan]

Air Force Could Ditch Oldest F-35 Jets as Part of Fighter Downsizing, General Says

Older versions of the premier stealth jet may be retired instead of receiving expensive upgrades.

www.military.com

 

[TomcatViP]

Those are the ones Greece was looking after beyond the Rafale buy.

 

[TomcatViP]

AIR FORCE FIGHTERS’ MISSION CAPABLE RATES

Fighters / 2019 Mission Capable Rate / 2020 Mission Capable Rate
F-15C 70.05% 71.93%
F-15D 72.45% 70.52%
F-15E 71.29% 69.21%
F-16C 72.97% 73.90%
F-16D 70.37% 72.11%
F-22A 50.57% 51.98%
F-35A 61.6% 76.07%

Air Force fighters' mission capable rates rise in 2020 | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Air Force's fighter fleets mostly raised their mission capable rates in fiscal 2020, especially the F-35.

www.airforcemag.com

 

[GARGEAN]

Air Force Could Ditch Oldest F-35 Jets as Part of Fighter Downsizing, General Says

Older versions of the premier stealth jet may be retired instead of receiving expensive upgrades.

www.military.com

IIRC ~6mil to go from TR1 to TR2 and ~22mil to go from TR2 to TR3. So kinda reasonable idea.

 

[Dragon029]

To my knowledge there are already no more TR1 jets, just TR2 as of last September. I think the true costs here are in (probably) higher sustainment costs of earlier airframes and perhaps deeper level mods required, that increase the cost figures associated with bringing them to current non-avionics hardware configurations.

Edit: Source for the fleet only being TR2 now:

View: https://youtu.be/jhhUK2eYfb4?t=14669
(4:04:29 if the timestamp doesn't work).