Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[Jackonicko]

So the UK is still down for 138 F-35Bs according to the LM fast facts attachment that you posted GTX, I wonder IF the UK will eventually get the rest of the official order when the UK Strategic Defence Review is due.

There is NO chance of that in the near term (eg as a consequence of the 2025 SDR). The best possible outcome for LM would be taking the buy to 74 (the number required to support carrier strike out to the OSD of the carriers). Any more would be a longer term prospect, were GCAP/FCAS to be abandoned.

 

[Jackonicko]

The reality is that Western NATO is relatively safe and that Poland and the Baltics would take the blow. The UK is in dire financial straights and is not expanding its MoD budget in my lifetime. Also quite honestly Russia is a spent force in the near term.

You really don't understand treaty obligations, article 5, or the wider implications to national interests do you?

As to the UK, we have committed to increasing defence spending. Even if we are unable to achieve a particular %GDP, we could do a lot to improve the bang we get for our defence 'buck'.

 

[Jackonicko]

And of course the GCAP/Tempest going to be coming on stream in the 2030s, it is really sad that the 138 F-35s were never officially ordered due to past governments messing with the procurement and of course the whole miss handling of not deciding between the F-35B and F-35C.

It's not remotely sad. Having a few F-35Bs for the carrier and to explore 4th/5th Gen teaming has been useful, but the F-35B has proved to be costly to support and sustain, lacking availability and with very limited weapons options. None of that is likely to change significantly in the near term, and by the time it does, the innate and inherent limitations of the F-35 will make it increasingly unable to 'cope' in the coming air power epoch. Had we acquired a larger number of F-35Bs we would not be looking at getting GCAP towards the end of the next decade.

 

[timmymagic]

It's not remotely sad. Having a few F-35Bs for the carrier and to explore 4th/5th Gen teaming has been useful, but the F-35B has proved to be costly to support and sustain, lacking availability and with very limited weapons options. None of that is likely to change significantly in the near term, and by the time it does, the innate and inherent limitations of the F-35 will make it increasingly unable to 'cope' in the coming air power epoch. Had we acquired a larger number of F-35Bs we would not be looking at getting GCAP towards the end of the next decade.

For me the only sad bit is that we won't reach c90 aircraft. That would enable us to actually put 24 F-35B on both carriers in extremis, and retain a seperate expeditionary capability. But 74 (I suppose in reality 70 combat capable...) just about does the job and means carrier strike is viable.

 

[FighterJock]

I supose that will depend on when the current QE carriers reach their out of service date and be replaced by successor carriers and the F-35Bs with a maritime variant of the GCAP/Tempest sometime around the 2050 time frame.

 

[Jackonicko]

There will be no maritime GCAP/Tempest, and, I strongly suspect, no 'successor carrier' since an already obsolete concept will be even more so by then!

 

[Ainen]

For me the only sad bit is that we won't reach c90 aircraft. That would enable us to actually put 24 F-35B on both carriers in extremis, and retain a seperate expeditionary capability. But 74 (I suppose in reality 70 combat capable...) just about does the job and means carrier strike is viable.

Given that QE class, as far as I understand, can fit up to 40 aircraft of this size - that's still rather sad.

 

[raptor82]

US Navy orders Leonardo BriteCloud 218 active decoys for F-35 self-protection

Leonardo's UK-based electronic warfare (EW) business has been contracted by US Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) to supply its BriteCloud 218 active expendable decoy...

www.janes.com

Leonardo's UK-based electronic warfare (EW) business has been contracted by US Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) to supply its BriteCloud 218 active expendable decoy (AED) for the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.

NAVAIR confirmed the sole-source USD32.9 million contract on 5 December 2024. BriteCloud 218 has received the US designation AN/ALQ-260(V).

AN/ALQ-260(V)1:

https://www.leonardo.us/hubfs/BriteCloud%20ECM%20-%20Datasheet%20(mm08222)%20LQ.pdf

 

[timmymagic]

Given that QE class, as far as I understand, can fit up to 40 aircraft of this size - that's still rather sad.

36 is the normal max load, but only 1 carrier is planned to be in full operational service at one time.

 

[timmymagic]

US Navy orders Leonardo BriteCloud 218 active decoys for F-35 self-protection

Leonardo's UK-based electronic warfare (EW) business has been contracted by US Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) to supply its BriteCloud 218 active expendable decoy...

www.janes.com

AN/ALQ-260(V)1:

https://www.leonardo.us/hubfs/BriteCloud%20ECM%20-%20Datasheet%20(mm08222)%20LQ.pdf

So the circular '55' Britecloud for use on the Typhoon and Gripen (and Tornado) in the Saab dispensers has a weight of 1.1kg, but the US 218 shape only weighs 500g...

That must surely mean a large reduction in capability....

 

[TomS]

So the circular '55' Britecloud for use on the Typhoon and Gripen (and Tornado) in the Saab dispensers has a weight of 1.1kg, but the US 218 shape only weighs 500g...

That must surely mean a large reduction in capability....

OTOH, when used on a platform like the F-35, which has much more signature reduction than those others, perhaps you can get away with less power.

 

[timmymagic]

OTOH, when used on a platform like the F-35, which has much more signature reduction than those others, perhaps you can get away with less power.

True, but I think the fielding recommendation was also for the ANG F-16 fleet. Perhaps its better than nothing though. Interesting to see the difference in approach. USN is also looking for a new active expendable RF decoy to replace GEN-X and you'd have to assume Britecloud is the front runner there as well, particularly if it gets cleared for F-35C. Can't think of any others out there. To my knowledge there has been POET (which I think was specifically targeted at SA-6), GEN-X, ELT590 Spark (no idea who uses that) and Britecloud. It's not exactly a crowded field.

 

[NMaude]

no 'successor carrier' since an already obsolete concept will be even more so by then!

Aircraft carriers are NOT an obsolete concept!

 

[TomcatViP]

Probably the end result of some optimization. When Britecloud cylinder shape was revealed, I pointed myself to the suboptimal structural design (not the round shape but the overall way its structure is designed).

 

[Deltafan]

Defense bill for 2025 would delay F-35 deliveries

Key lawmakers grew frustrated with the F-35 program earlier this year, as critical upgrades stalled and jets piled up at Lockheed Martin's Texas factory.

www.defensenews.com

Congress is set to allow the military to buy 68 Lockheed Martin-made F-35s in 2025, under this year’s defense authorization bill — but would prevent the Pentagon from accepting 20 of those jets until it shows how it plans to fix several problems with the Joint Strike Fighter program.
(...)
The newest F-35s are now being delivered with an interim version of the TR-3 software and can fly combat training missions, but will not be able to fly in combat until 2025. The military is now withholding about $5 million per jet in payments to Lockheed until the new F-35s are combat-capable.
(...)

 

[FlyGuy369]

Absolutely beautiful find from today, interesting use of orange...Marine F-35C

New VMFA-251 Thunderbolts F-35C CAG-Bird Breaks Cover

Take a look at the specially painted aircraft of VMFA-251, the first East Coast operational unit of the U.S. Marine Corps to receive the F-35C. On Sept.

theaviationist.com