Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

That is not good news for the F-35 Deltafan. The F-35 is already one of the most expensive fighter aircraft in the world at present and that delay will only make things worse. :(
 
FighterJock said:
That is not good news for the F-35 Deltafan. The F-35 is already one of the most expensive fighter aircraft in the world at present and that delay will only make things worse. :(
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It is hard to arrive at exact costs per airframe based on deals that include maintenance and other support, but I was under impression that F-35s were competitive with Eurofighter, F-18, and F-15 price wise.
 
Very competitive. Belgium did get a block 4 at under 4B€ (34 something airframe)!
 
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paralay said:
Without engine
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This is with the engine. The last signed deal for F-35 procurement (Lots 15-17) put F-35A prices at $69.9 to $70.2 million per jet without an engine.

As a note, when accounting for inflation the Lot 15-17 contract is actually cheaper per aircraft than the previous Lot 14 contract (which was the one that had the cost of an F-35A with engines at $78 million in 2019 dollars).
 
The Australian government is investing $100 million to establish an aircraft-coating facility at the Royal Australian Air Force base in Williamtown, New South Wales, aiming to keep its fleet of F-35 fighters ‘nearly invisible.’

Australia’s aircraft coating facility will carry out the precise application of specialized paint onto the aircraft, ensuring their effective camouflage from adversaries’ radar systems.

This will play a vital role in enhancing the nation’s air combat capabilities. The facility also represents the first instance when this particular paint is applied outside the United States.
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Good for Japan to make the first visit to Australia, that will enable the Japanese to test their F-35s in an other country.
 
GTX said:
breakingdefense.com

Romania expects F-35 Letter of Agreement in 2024, first aircraft in 2030 - Breaking Defense

The initial order for 32 aircraft also includes 35 engines, weapons, ammunition, logistics support, training services and simulators, according to the Romanian Ministry of National Defence.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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Interesting that it only includes 3 extra engines, I was expecting more like 6 spare engines, given the small fleet size and need to keep the maximum number of planes ready to fly.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Interesting that it only includes 3 extra engines, I was expecting more like 6 spare engines, given the small fleet size and need to keep the maximum number of planes ready to fly.
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No need for the extra engines if part of the global support solution.
 
GTX said:
No need for the extra engines if part of the global support solution.
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Except for the time needed to ship them to you.

JIT depends on a functional logistics system, and logs tends to get choked up when people start shooting.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Except for the time needed to ship them to you.

JIT depends on a functional logistics system, and logs tends to get choked up when people start shooting.
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I wasn't talking about JIT. If you look, you will see that there are multiple global networks/support depots for the F-35 and the F135 engines (and other systems). In the case of the engines, they are also proving to be extremely reliable in service so the need for spare engines is far less than with previous platforms.

Moreover, if you look at some of the F-35 buys, you will see that what the Romanians are seeking aren't that different to others are doing:

  • Poland - 32 aircraft plus 1 spare engine
  • Belgium - 34 aircraft plus 4 spare engines
  • Finland - 64 aircraft plus 2 spare engines
  • Switzerland - 40 aircraft plus 6 spare engines
  • Czech Republic - 24 aircraft plus 1 spare engine
  • Germany - 35 aircraft plus 2 spare engines
 
According to a report in Russian state media, two Su-34 and two Su-35 aircraft of the Russian Air Force (RuAF or the VKS) “recorded the impact on them of the guidance and radar systems of two F-35 fighters of the anti-terrorist coalition led by the United States.”

This “automatically (activated) the onboard defense systems of Russian aircraft,” Rear Admiral Vadim Kulit, deputy head of the Russian Center for the Reconciliation of Warring Parties (CPVS) in Syria, said.

This happened between “02:13 to 02:20” when the Su-34 and two Su-35 were undertaking a “planned flight in the Al-Tanf area” when they were “subjected to radar attacks from two F-35 fighters” that eventually triggered the Sukhoi jets’ “automatic operation of onboard defense systems.”
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www.eurasiantimes.com

US F-35 Fighters 'Radar Attack & Buzz' Russian Su-34, Su-35 Jets Over Syria As Fight Against ISIS Resumes

Russian Su-34 and Su-35 fighters in Syria detected a radar tracking from US Air Force (USAF) F-35s that led to the former’s “on board” defense systems being “activated” last week, according to a top Russian military officer based in the war-torn country. Russia Unveils ‘Electronic Defense...
www.eurasiantimes.com www.eurasiantimes.com
 
GTX said:
I wasn't talking about JIT. If you look, you will see that there are multiple global networks/support depots for the F-35 and the F135 engines (and other systems). In the case of the engines, they are also proving to be extremely reliable in service so the need for spare engines is far less than with previous platforms.
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Still requires the ability to send you new engines when your spares are either in out-of-craft maintenance or otherwise unavailable for use.

The point is to never have an otherwise functional aircraft unable to fly due to engine trouble, particularly when you have a small fleet that you are using for air policing and interception.


GTX said:
Moreover, if you look at some of the F-35 buys, you will see that what the Romanians are seeking aren't that different to others are doing:
  • Poland - 32 aircraft plus 1 spare engine
  • Belgium - 34 aircraft plus 4 spare engines
  • Finland - 64 aircraft plus 2 spare engines
  • Switzerland - 40 aircraft plus 6 spare engines
  • Czech Republic - 24 aircraft plus 1 spare engine
  • Germany - 35 aircraft plus 2 spare engines
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Of anyone, I'd say that the Swiss have about the right number of spare engines per aircraft. Everyone else is depending on either reliable engines or rapidly shipping a replacement engine from the depot.

I'm particularly unimpressed with Poland's level of spares.
 
Invariably there will always be aircraft down for some reason - I don't think any Air Force realistically expects 100% FMC rates.
 
GTX said:
I wasn't talking about JIT. If you look, you will see that there are multiple global networks/support depots for the F-35 and the F135 engines (and other systems). In the case of the engines, they are also proving to be extremely reliable in service so the need for spare engines is far less than with previous platforms.

Moreover, if you look at some of the F-35 buys, you will see that what the Romanians are seeking aren't that different to others are doing:

  • Poland - 32 aircraft plus 1 spare engine
  • Belgium - 34 aircraft plus 4 spare engines
  • Finland - 64 aircraft plus 2 spare engines
  • Switzerland - 40 aircraft plus 6 spare engines
  • Czech Republic - 24 aircraft plus 1 spare engine
  • Germany - 35 aircraft plus 2 spare engines
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i'm surprised that Germany, has such a low number of F-35 ordered, compared to Finland, given there military resources and needs, they probably are still eyeballing the European 6th generation fighter program.
 
As I understand it - correct me if I'm wrong - Germany is buying F-35 for the express purpose of nuclear weapons delivery. The German Typhoon fleet is to be maintained, with talk (?) of buying ECR-Typhoons.
 
Arjen said:
As I understand it - correct me if I'm wrong - Germany is buying F-35 for the express purpose of nuclear weapons delivery. The German Typhoon fleet is to be maintained, with talk (?) of buying ECR-Typhoons.
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I think F-18Gs were the plan for ECR replacements at one point but I may be out of date. I always wondered why F-35 wouldn't simply be the nuclear and ECR requirement filler; I would have thought its organic sensors up to the requirement.
 
Arjen said:
As I understand it - correct me if I'm wrong - Germany is buying F-35 for the express purpose of nuclear weapons delivery. The German Typhoon fleet is to be maintained, with talk (?) of buying ECR-Typhoons.
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Eurofighter EK (Elektronischer Kampf) seems to be proceeding, though who can tell with German procurement now that the initial Ukraine panic has abated?

Update: Luftwaffe selects Saab to provide Eurofighter EK electronic attack payload

The Luftwaffe has selected the Saab Arexis electronic warfare (EW) suite for its Eurofighter Elektronischer Kampf (EK) requirement, the Swedish company confirmed on 16...
www.janes.com
 
GTX said:
Invariably there will always be aircraft down for some reason - I don't think any Air Force realistically expects 100% FMC rates.
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No, but when you have two dozen, a plane with a 67% FMC rate means you have 16 available to fly. Hopefully you've spread them across two or three bases so that a case of fuel contamination or an accidental activation of the hangar fire suppression system doesn't knock out your entire fleet (while you dig them out of AFFF and clean all that out of the aircraft), just half or a third of it. That puts 5-8 FMC planes per base.

Remember, the lower the total numbers, the easier it is for random events to leave you with few to no craft deployable. UK ran into this with their submarine fleet a while back, 3 boats in planned overhauls, the others all had something pop up that prevented them from deploying. Each one had a different issue, and it wasn't possible to swap equipment around to get one or two boats going, at least not quickly.

The smaller the total fleet, the larger the spares package per plane needs to be.
 
I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. All of those things you listed as risks are managed in any Air Force operating F-35s and indeed have been for decades - hell, I know they were here in Australia when I was in the RAAF years ago. Moreover, operators of the F-35 know what they are doing.
 
GTX said:
I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. All of those things you listed as risks are managed in any Air Force operating F-35s and indeed have been for decades - hell, I know they were here in Australia when I was in the RAAF years ago. Moreover, operators of the F-35 know what they are doing.
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Yes, those are things to manage. I am questioning their risk assessments, and presuming that many of the countries are relying on the deterrence of being part of NATO over ensuring that they have aircraft ready to intercept.
 
TomcatViP said:
Seems I was wrong ;)

amp.cnn.com

National security panel reviewing secretive land buys near key Air Force base | CNN Politics

The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States is probing a secretive company that has been buying up land around a key Air Force base in California, sources familiar with the matter and a California lawmaker told CNN.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com
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More on this:

www.newsnationnow.com

Mystery land buyers around California Air Force base revealed

Democratic California Rep. John Garamendi: “The underlying problem of securing Travis Air Force base remains.”
www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com

The bottom part of this report is more interesting.
 
Fascinating discovery at the Gowen Thunder air show today: a single F-35 has more basso profundo rumble than a quartet of F-16s in the thunderbirds tight diamond!
 
GTX said:
HX as in Heat Exchangers? It is all ITAR controlled so unless you are authorised to know you cannot see.
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Of course. But i would assumed that someone out there may have an idea how they look high level? I mean is all physics at this point.
 

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