First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off


The AIM-120 especially the latest models are very capable and you're assuming that the Russian pilots are fully trained in using their AA-13 Axehead long-range AAM (Russian pilots from what I've read don't get adequate flying hours each year) and that AAM may possibly be a bit overrated; the AS-24 Killjoy ALBM turns out to have been a bit overrated for example. IMO it's the Russian pilots who're going to be in for a nasty surprise when they encounter the "Slammer".

rutube.ru

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31. Самая

Why are you posting a clip from a computer game that's in Russian?
 
Russian pilots have a sufficient raid, and now they have combat experience. For lovers of Amraam, there is a P-77. There are no Western analogues of the R-37M, the range is from 200 to 380 km (real work)
 
First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off
No it won't, P-37M is for high value targets such as AWACS, raptors and nuke carrying bombers. F-16 is a cheap target requiring cheap SAMs from the 70s.

The AIM-120 especially the latest models are very capable.
I will hold my breath regarding any claimed performance of latest models.
The bleeding edge (by US standards) AIM-9X has been successfully defeated by soviet export flares from an su-22m4. It was funny, if not dire.
 
The bleeding edge (by US standards) AIM-9X has been successfully defeated by soviet export flares from an su-22m4. It was funny, if not dire.
it wasn’t the flare that defeated the AIM-9X but rather the fact that the missile malfunction because the fuse didn’t work.
Tremel went for the Sidewinder missile.

“It was really crazy, swinging that master arm for the first time in combat with an air-to-air missile selected,” he recalled.

But it didn’t work.

“Real time, I thought I might have been too close,” Tremel said. “I thought maybe I hit (the jet) but it didn’t fuse in time.”

So Tremel turned to the AIM-120, an advanced medium-range missile.

“That got the job done from about half a mile,” he said.
 
I believe the US should unofficially send the F-35 VLO miracle to target S-400 batteries and confront the russians with humiliating facts on the ground. Certainly, this capability exists in more than marketing brochures, so why not use it in glorious combat?
They wouldn’t even send their latest F-16 version, there is zero chance they would send F-35. USA want Ukraine to win, but they also want this war to drag out to hurt Russia economy

For lovers of Amraam, there is a P-77. There are no Western analogues of the R-37M, the range is from 200 to 380 km (real work
MBDA Meteor would be quite decent against R-37
First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off

They already use MALD in Ukraine and F-16 can carry them on triple ejector rack just like how they carry MK-82
Majority of target that get shotdown would be these decoys
7F3A913E-C11D-4E8D-979D-2B44727BA3AE.jpeg
 
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The bleeding edge (by US standards) AIM-9X has been successfully defeated by soviet export flares from an su-22m4. It was funny, if not dire.

The AIM-9X uses an imaging seeker unlike earlier models so I have my doubts that Soviet-era IR decoy flares would work on it.

No it won't, P-37M is for high value targets such as AWACS, raptors and nuke carrying bombers.

Also how many AA-13s are in Russia's inventory?

F-16 is a cheap target requiring cheap SAMs from the 70s.

The F-16s that are being sent to Ukraine aren't the original limited F-16A/Bs, they are much more capable F-16C/Ds that have been continuously updated and they won't be easy targets. Once those F-16s are flying in Ukraine the situation for the Russian airforce units there is going to get a lot more dicey.

MBDA Meteor would be quite decent against R-37

Year, the Meteor would give the AA-13 a run for its money and being ramjet powered it has a big no-escape zone.

They already use MALD in Ukraine and F-16 can carry them on triple ejector rack just like how they carry MK-82
Majority of target that get shotdown would be these decoys

I suspect that the Ukrainians are going to find it a lot easier to go after SA-12/20/21 batteries with the F-16 no doubt spamming them with ADM-160s and killing them with AGM-88s.
 
Paralay is right. The f-16 fighters WILL be targeted with the R-37m. They are high value targets not necessarily in themselves but because of what they represent. Another escalation which Russia will naturally try and rebuff. If I was a Russian I would want those fighters destroyed as a message to the west.

The R-37m can pull pretty tight at high speed and frankly it doesnt need to be so agile as even at long ranges these monsters are traveling fast. By the time the seeker head actively homes in on you, you have little time to do anything. Now I am sure these f-16 fighters will be connected with our elint aircraft and itself will have much better missile warning than the mig-29. Still though I think it is highly unwise to underestimate the Russian pilots and underestimate Russian missiles.
 
it wasn’t the flare that defeated the AIM-9X but rather the fact that the missile malfunction because the fuse didn’t work.
Asserting that for some mysterious reason the fuse did not work sounds suspiciously like post-mortem propaganda spin to detract from the fact that it had indeed been disrupted by precambrian countermeasures. It was common practice in Vietnam to officially report legitimate combat losses as training flights gone awry so that the party line can maintain its carefully manicured kill ratios. And then came the forced withdrawal, which was itself another magnanimous victory if the current histories are to be believed.
Also how many AA-13s are in Russia's inventory?
it's a state secret, however adventurers can always gauge its effectiveness to their own detriment and enter the ukryin crucible, where the performance of all cargo cultist weapons is laid bare.
The F-16s that are being sent to Ukraine aren't the original limited F-16A/Bs, they are much more capable F-16C/Ds that have been continuously updated and they won't be easy targets.
A/B cannot even be considered operational, while the main version, the C, is itself obsolete by today's standards.
 
Besides AMRAAM APG-66(v)2 is probably going to better able to operate in a contested environment.

According to Farzard Bishop & Tom Cooper, Iran-Iraq War in the Air 1980-1988, Page 266, Iranian F-4E with AN/ALQ-119(V) -17 were already able to jam N019 as far back as 1988. If nothing else the Russians have never operated the system.
 
Asserting that for some mysterious reason the fuse did not work sounds suspiciously like post-mortem propaganda spin to detract from the fact that it had indeed been disrupted by precambrian countermeasures.
There is nothing particularly mysterious about malfunctioned fuse, it is actually quite a common occurrence on the battlefield. Failed fuse is the key reason why cluster bomb are prohibited by many countries.
The pilot also mentioned that he was flying too close to target which is another plausible reason on why the missile didn't explode since AAM have a minimum range before the fuse active to avoid damaging the aircraft that launched them. As per pilot account, Su-22 was shootdown at distance of half a miles or about 800 meters, which mean the whole engagement was at very close distance.
Imaging infrared guided missiles such as AIM-9X, IRIS-T, ASRAAM can distinguish between aircraft and flares because they can see the shape of target, there is no reason to believe that for some magical reason the flares dropped by Su-22 create the exact shape of the plane
1.PNG Capture.PNG

It was common practice in Vietnam to officially report legitimate combat losses as training flights gone awry so that the party line can maintain its carefully manicured kill ratios. And then came the forced withdrawal, which was itself another magnanimous victory if the current histories are to be believed.
Missile kill ratio has always included all miss regardless of reason (malfunctioned or deceived by countermeasure are treated the same for the ratio), so there would be no reason for the so called "post-mortem propaganda". Vietnam was has always counted as a lost for the USA, I don't know where you got the idea that USA think it is a magnanimous victory.
 
That's all that was left in KLu inventory when the decision was made to provide them to Ukraine - MLU F-16s.
 
Thank you for the reply. Apart from the IDM, will these birds be fitted with any extra avionics or upgrades before going to Ukraine?
 
I don't know.
KLu F-16s were kept longer than was expected in the early noughties, because F-35 development took longer. This caused them to receive more updates than originally planned - a more capable configuration than the one foreseen when they would have been replaced according to the original plans.
 
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And from Ukrainian sources:

 
There are rumors that between a dozen to two dozen F-16s have already been delivered in the dismantled state to Ukraine. Any confirmation?
 
There are rumors that between a dozen to two dozen F-16s have already been delivered in the dismantled state to Ukraine. Any confirmation?

That is news to me, from what I understand the F-16C/Ds being donated have been flown to Romania where the Ukrainian pilots will finish their conversion training.
 
Hello

Can someone tell me what I have circled in the picture? Multiple US fighters have it but I can't figure out for what it is.

Many thanks.
 

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Hello

Can someone tell me what I have circled in the picture? Multiple US fighters have it but I can't figure out for what it is.

Many thanks.
Honestly, I was thinking it was a gopro, as much of these video are made for YouTube. Do you have another picture?
 
Honestly, I was thinking it was a gopro, as much of these video are made for YouTube. Do you have another picture?
Example 2 and 3 are from a Super Hornet, example 4 is an F-15C.
I always assumed it had something to do with an emergency canopy release or something since it looks like it has a button on top with a wire on the backside that goes somewhere.

Curiosity got the better of me so I looked it up but never came across an answer. Asked it here to find out once and for all.
 

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Example 2 and 3 are from a Super Hornet, example 4 is an F-15C.
I always assumed it had something to do with an emergency canopy release or something since it looks like it has a button on top with a wire on the backside that goes somewhere.

Curiosity got the better of me so I looked it up but never came across an answer. Asked it here to find out once and for all.
They're the sensors for JHMCS.
 
Turkey F-16 got the greenlight for a 25B$ order (40 new built + 79 upgrade packages) :


 
nine hundred fifty-two (952) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-8 or equivalent missiles
four hundred one (401) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder missiles
16 x AN/AAQ-33 Sniper TGP
ninety-six (96) AGM-88B High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missiles (HARM)
Infrared Search and Track (IRST) pods
Triple Missile Launcher Adapters (TMLA); aircraft, avionics, and weapons integration, test support, and equipment; major modernization upgrade kits for F-16 Block 40 and Block 50+ aircraft and Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) modifications

The most important part is without a doubt the addition of SLEP kits for indigenous Özgür-2 modernisation. This means;

275 F-16s in total
-139 F-16Vs (with American/NATO munitions) -136 F-16 Özgür-I/-IIs (with domestic radar, avionics and munitions)
 

Türkiye – F-16 Aircraft Acquisition and Modernization​


WASHINGTON, January 26, 2024 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Republic of Türkiye of F-16 Aircraft Acquisition and Modernization and related equipment for an estimated cost of $23.0 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
The Republic of Türkiye has requested to buy 40 new F-16 aircraft and to modernize 79 existing F-16 aircraft to V-Configuration. The request includes: thirty-two (32) F-16 C Block 70 aircraft; eight (8) F-16 D Block 70 aircraft; forty-eight (48) F110-GE-129D engines (40 installed, 8 spares); one hundred forty-nine (149) Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDG) (40 installed, 10 spares, 99 for modernization program (79 installed, 20 spares)); one hundred forty-nine (149) AN/APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Scalable Agile Beam Radars (SABR) (40 installed, 10 spares, 99 for modernization program (79 installed, 20 spares)); one hundred sixty-nine (169) Modular Mission Computers (MMC) 7000AHC (or available mission computer) (40 installed, 10 spares, 119 for modernization program (79 installed, 40 spares)); one hundred fifty nine (159) Embedded Global Positioning System (GPS) Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) (EGI) with Selective Availability Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM) or M-Code capability and Precise Positioning Service (PPS) (40 installed, 8 spares, 111 for modernization program (79 installed, 32 spares)); one hundred sixty-eight (168) Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) or equivalent Electronic Warfare (EW) systems (40 installed, 10 spares, 118 for modernization program (79 installed, 39 spares)); eight hundred fifty-eight (858) LAU-129 guided missile launchers; forty-four (44) M61 Vulcan cannons (40 installed, 4 spares); sixteen (16) AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP); one hundred fifty-one (151) Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Joint Tactical Radio Systems (MIDS-JTRS) (40 installed and 4 ground terminals, 8 spares, and 99 for modernization program (79 installed and 4 ground terminals, 16 spares)); nine hundred fifty-two (952) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-8 or equivalent missiles; ninety six (96) AMRAAM guidance sections; eight hundred sixty-four (864) GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs Increment 1 (SDB-1); two (2) GBU-39(T-1)/B SDB-1 guided test vehicles; two (2) GBU-39(T-1)/B SDB-1 practice bombs; ninety-six (96) AGM-88B High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missiles (HARM); ninety-six (96) AGM-88E Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missiles (AARGM); ten (10) AARGM Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM); eleven (11) AARGM control sections; twelve (12) AARGM guidance sections; four hundred one (401) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder missiles; twelve (12) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs); forty (40) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder tactical guidance units; twelve (12) AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder CATM guidance units; twelve (12) MK82 Inert Filled general purpose bombs; eight hundred fifty (850) Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) KMU-556 tail kits for GBU-31; two hundred (200) JDAM KMU-557 tail kits for GBU-31v3; three hundred eighty-four (384) JDAM KMU-559 tail kits for GBU-32; three (3) JDAM KMU-572 tail kits for GBU-38 or Laser JDAM GBU-54; one thousand fifty (1,050) FMU-152 fuzes. Also included are AMRAAM CATMs; AIM-9X Sidewinder training missiles and Active Optical Target Detectors (AOTD); HARM control sections, rocket motors, and warhead spares; FMU-139 Joint Programmable Fuzes; DSU-38 Laser Guidance Sets for GBU-54; missile containers; AN/ARC-238 radios; AN/APX-127 or equivalent Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Combined Interrogator Transponders (CIT) with mode 5; Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS) II or Scorpion Hybrid Optical-based Inertial Tracker (HObIT) helmet mounted displays; Infrared Search and Track (IRST) pods; AN/ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems (CMDS); KY-58 and KIV-78 cryptographic devices; Simple Key Loaders (SKLs); additional secure communications, precision navigation, and cryptographic equipment; Flight Mission Planning Systems (FMPS); Remote Operated Video Enhanced Receivers (ROVER) 6i/6Sis; Tactical Network ROVER kits, and STINGER Multi Bi-Directional (MBI) antennas; SNIPER pod pylons; impulse cartridges, chaff, flares, and ammunition; bomb components and Common Munitions Built-in-Test Reprogramming Equipment (CMBRE); Rackmount Improved Avionics Intermediate Shop (RIAIS); Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); Triple Missile Launcher Adapters (TMLA); aircraft, avionics, and weapons integration, test support, and equipment; major modernization upgrade kits for F-16 Block 40 and Block 50+ aircraft and Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) modifications; aircraft and engine repair and refurbishment after maintenance; engine and aircraft spare and repair parts, consumables, and accessories and repair and return support; aircraft, engine, ground, and pilot support equipment; Classified/Unclassified Computer Program Identification Number (CPIN) systems; electronic warfare database support; pylons, launcher adaptors, weapon interfaces, bomb and ejection racks, conformal fuel tanks, and travel pods; precision measurement equipment laboratory and calibration support; Classified/Unclassified software and software support; Classified/Unclassified publications, manuals, and technical documentation; maps and mapping data; facilities and construction support; simulators and training devices; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, studies and surveys; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated total cost is $23.0 billion.
This proposed sale will support the foreign policy goals and national security of the United States by improving the air capabilities and interoperability of a North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Ally that is a force for political and economic stability in Europe.
The proposed sale will allow Türkiye to expand and modernize its fleet of F-16 aircraft as older F-16 aircraft approach the end of their service life. These new and refurbished aircraft will provide Türkiye with a fleet of modernized multi-role combat aircraft to enable it to provide for the defense of its airspace, contribute to NATO missions to preserve regional security and defend NATO Allies, and maintain interoperability with U.S. and NATO forces. Türkiye has F-16 aircraft in its inventory and will have no difficulty absorbing these aircraft and services into its armed forces.
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
The principal contractor will be Lockheed Martin, Greenville, SC. The purchaser typically requests offsets. Any offset agreement will be defined in negotiations between the purchaser and the contractor.
Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any additional U.S. Government or contractor representatives to Türkiye.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. The description and dollar value are for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements. Actual dollar value will be lower depending on final requirements, budget authority, and signed sales agreement(s), if and when concluded.
All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs
 
Any word on Argentina acquiring the type? I know not to long ago the United States ok'd selling them.
 

Some prediction i made on potential of RCS reduction from Have Glass. The big issue was no real description of the material used. Except that (but vague) It's a magnetic absorber and 0.3mm thick. In my estimate, the material covers almost whole surface of the F-16's and the inlet lip. The substitute material is Barium Hexaferrite which also a magnetic absorber.

Treatment.png

There are 2 modeled cases (armed and unarmed) Along with 3 conditions, untreated, treated but with old radome, treated and with new bandpass radome.

ResultsWithGraphs.png

The result can be seen above. the treatment along with bandpass radome allow the lowest RCS reduction to be attained, however addition of external weapons kinda diluted the "stealth" advantage of the airframe. This might work against older fighter types like Su-27SK's or MiG-29 Izd 9.13 with old N001 and N019 also to some extent More modern MiG-29SMT with N010 ZhukM/ME. It will however struggle against more modern types with much more powerful radar.
 
When will those promised F-16s actually start appearing in Ukrainian airforce bases?

With those additional eight F-16s promised what does that bring the total number to?
 
When will those promised F-16s actually start appearing in Ukrainian airforce bases?

With those additional eight F-16s promised what does that bring the total number to?
Currently the estimate of the arrival of the first operational F-16s is in the spring, so within a few months. These six additional F-16s pledged by the Netherlands are in addition to 18 pledged by them previously, so 24 all in all. I am uncertain of the number pledged by Denmark and Norway and of their delivery schedules. In any case, additional F-16s will be retired by the RNLAF later this year as they are replaced by F-35As, but they have not yet been pledged and if Geert Wilders manages to form a government (despite being a Finn not particularly well versed in the finer details of Dutch politics I cosider that rather unlikely), they will probably not be delivered.
 
if Geert Wilders manages to form a government (despite being a Finn not particularly well versed in the finer details of Dutch politics I cosider that rather unlikely), they will probably not be delivered.

Why wouldn't they be delivered if Geert Wilders forms a government?
 
Wilders is negotiating with three political parties to form a coalition government. Two of those three insist - so far - on sending military aid to Ukraine.
Those two parties also insist on finding money for Wilders' plans before agreeing on them, with an eye on limiting budget deficit to the 3% EU-norm, or indeed below that.
At the moment, Wilders' plans would lead to a ~5% deficit, because raising taxes is anathema to him - negotiations are troublesome.

For now, those F-16s are bound for Ukraine.
 
One of the three parties negotiating with Mr Wilders has just withdrawn from the negotiations to form a majority government. It seems a minority goverment is in the offing now, with ad hoc parliamentary majorities to be found for all issues. The latest elections' results would rule out a decision to cut of all aid to Ukraine.
 

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