Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon Developments

[Topi]

Hasn't the Netherlands started transferring the F-16s it said it would donate to Ukraine to Romania for pilot training?

If I remember correctly, yes.

 

[Forest Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1721886559069491637

View: https://twitter.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1721886559069491637?s=20

First Laser Weapon For A Fighter Delivered To The Air Force

The Air Force now has all the major components for its pod-mounted defensive laser weapon, paving the way for first airborne tests.

www.thedrive.com

 

[aonestudio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722007314679345317

View: https://twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1722007314679345317

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720277670062158266

View: https://twitter.com/webflite/status/1720277670062158266

 

[Flyaway]

Ukraine Situation Report: Dutch F-16s For Ukrainian Training Arrive In Romania

The first five Dutch F-16 fighters arrived today at a new training hub in Romania, where they will be used by Ukrainian pilots.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Wallmart Republic]

In Ukriinya's particular case, operating F-16 point defense fighters would be a downgrade compared to, dare I say it, soviet era mig-29s not to mention the flankers they already had.
I believe the US should unofficially send the F-35 VLO miracle to target S-400 batteries and confront the russians with humiliating facts on the ground. Certainly, this capability exists in more than marketing brochures, so why not use it in glorious combat?

 

[Arjen]

As posted earlier:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/posts/635814/

The Dutch F-16s destined for Ukraine have been upgraded throughout their service lives with the Dutch air force. Added since their introduction: adapted for and using Litening-, LANTIRN-, FLIR- and ECM-pods, night vision goggles, terrain following system, AN/APG-66v2 radar, integration of AIM-9X - IRIS-T - AMRAAM - GBU-47.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

In Ukriinya's particular case, operating F-16 point defense fighters would be a downgrade compared to, dare I say it, soviet era mig-29s not to mention the flankers they already had.

You are severely underestimating the Dutch F-16s here.

Soviet era MiG-29s would have no chance against them in air-air combat, plus only rudimentary ground attack capability in comparison.

 

[TMA1]

And we are highly underestimating Russias air defense and EW umbrella and fighter network. Whether people here would like to admit it or not part of our aura of invincibility comes from our air force. If Russia is able to fairly easily knock out our f-16 fighters from the sky it will not look good. At first Russia will take casualties, and then they will learn our tactics and defend against them better. I cannot see how this will result in anything good.

 

[ST21]

In Ukriinya's particular case, operating F-16 point defense fighters would be a downgrade compared to, dare I say it, soviet era mig-29s not to mention the flankers they already had.
I believe the US should unofficially send the F-35 VLO miracle to target S-400 batteries and confront the russians with humiliating facts on the ground. Certainly, this capability exists in more than marketing brochures, so why not use it in glorious combat?

Nonsense. Those are not vanilla F-16A/Bs with no BVR capability like in the 80s. Dutch (& Danish, Norwegian and Belgian) F-16s went through a Mid Life Update (MLU) program around the turn of the century that brought them to a level comparable to the F-16C/D Block 50/52 in terms of capabilities. They have received constant updates (mostly software) since then that added even more capabilities. They are able to employ modern weapons like AIM-120C, AIM-9X, AGM-88 HARM, all the JDAM family, JSOW, SDB and modern targeting pods like Litening and Sniper XR. They are significantly more capable than the vanilla, Soviet-era MiG-29s and even Su-27s that Ukraine is currently using. A Dutch F-16 MLU literally shot down a Soviet-era MiG-29 (a Yugoslavian one) with an AMRAAM during the Kosovo war back in 1999...

That being said, the F-16 MLU will not be some kind of "wonder weapons" that will turn the tide of the war but it will be a useful addition to Kyiv's arsenal as well as another big step towards the "westernization" of Ukrainian armed forces.

 

[NMaude]

A Dutch F-16 MLU literally shootdown a Soviet-era MiG-29 (a Yugoslavian one) with an AMRAAM during the Kosovo war back in 1999...

I have a strong suspicion that some time in 2024 after the F-16s have been deployed by the Ukrainian airforce the Russians are going to find out the hard way why the AIM-120 is known as the "Slammer".

 

[Wallmart Republic]

A Dutch F-16 MLU literally shot down a Soviet-era MiG-29 (a Yugoslavian one) with an AMRAAM during the Kosovo war back in 1999...

Yugoslavia's migs were among the least advanced due to their political unreliability.
In any case, post cold war altercations were not wars in the true sense of the word as the hostilities were entirely one-sided. Swarms of coalition aircraft could indeed lounge and loiter for months at leisure without their airbases receiving a prompt kinetic calling card, though one F-16 was swatted by a legacy s-125 if I remember correctly.

Much has changed since the 90s however, and the old skirmishes USAF tactics are attuned to against some half-starved country bear no relevance whatsoever to the situation at hand. Failure to grasp this crucial distinction would lead, I'm afraid, to a UK-style descent into irrelevance.
Any old school safari-goers would find that the ECM and SAM saturated skies over ukryin are much less pleasant than what they're accustomed to.
But there is still hope yet, if the F-35 delivers on what was promised and puts its sensor suite to good use under real life conditions.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

You are severely underestimating the Dutch F-16s here.

Soviet era MiG-29s would have no chance against them in air-air combat, plus only rudimentary ground attack capability in comparison.

Why not, the nimble P-73 is a death sentence within its engagement envelope as the USAF has learned in its DACT sessions and the P-27 in its multiple versions is by no means deprecated.
For ground attack they already have the specialist and longer ranged Su-24 anyway which can penetrate at low level with terrain following to deliver heavy ordnance and the rugged Su-25 for CAS roles. Or have these hundreds of jets gone with the wind already, in which case, it does not bode well for last century's F-16s.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

R-73 was a decent missile in its era, outclassed now. R-27 is not great, and much inferior to ASRAAM. An/APG-66V2 very much superior to N019. F-16 can carry targeting pods and A/G weapons superior to anything Ukraine has now.

F-16 won't be immune to Russian air defences, sure, but they are an upgrade. A lot will depend on supplied weapons and pods.

 

[NMaude]

Why not, the nimble P-73 is a death sentence within its engagement envelope as the USAF has learned in its DACT sessions and the P-27 in its multiple versions is by no means deprecated.

As Paul said the AA-11 Archer in its time was a capable short-range IR-guided AAM and the AA-10 Alamo is basically the Soviet equivalent of a late model AIM-7 Sparrow.

 

[paralay]

I have a strong suspicion that some time in 2024 after the F-16s have been deployed by the Ukrainian airforce the Russians are going to find out the hard way why the AIM-120 is known as the "Slammer".

First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31

?? Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31. Самая дальнобойная ракета, которая доказала свою эффективность, периодически опуская с небес на землю летающих хрюшек. А мы напоминаем, что любой из вас может оставить свою надпись на точно такой же ракете за...

rutube.ru

 

[NMaude]

First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31

?? Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31. Самая дальнобойная ракета, которая доказала свою эффективность, периодически опуская с небес на землю летающих хрюшек. А мы напоминаем, что любой из вас может оставить свою надпись на точно такой же ракете за...

rutube.ru

The AIM-120 especially the latest models are very capable and you're assuming that the Russian pilots are fully trained in using their AA-13 Axehead long-range AAM (Russian pilots from what I've read don't get adequate flying hours each year) and that AAM may possibly be a bit overrated; the AS-24 Killjoy ALBM turns out to have been a bit overrated for example. IMO it's the Russian pilots who're going to be in for a nasty surprise when they encounter the "Slammer".

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31​

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31. Самая

Why are you posting a clip from a computer game that's in Russian?

 

[paralay]

Russian pilots have a sufficient raid, and now they have combat experience. For lovers of Amraam, there is a P-77. There are no Western analogues of the R-37M, the range is from 200 to 380 km (real work)

 

[Wallmart Republic]

First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off

No it won't, P-37M is for high value targets such as AWACS, raptors and nuke carrying bombers. F-16 is a cheap target requiring cheap SAMs from the 70s.

The AIM-120 especially the latest models are very capable.

I will hold my breath regarding any claimed performance of latest models.
The bleeding edge (by US standards) AIM-9X has been successfully defeated by soviet export flares from an su-22m4. It was funny, if not dire.

 

[paralay]

No it won't, P-37M is for high value targets such as AWACS, raptors and nuke carrying bombers

The R-37M successfully works on maneuverable targets with a probability close to 100%, one missile is one target

 

[Wallmart Republic]

The R-37M successfully works on maneuverable targets with a probability close to 100%, one missile is one target

It's a cost-benefit analysis, not a question of whether or not it can down the lucky winner of the day.

 

[Ronny]

The bleeding edge (by US standards) AIM-9X has been successfully defeated by soviet export flares from an su-22m4. It was funny, if not dire.

it wasn’t the flare that defeated the AIM-9X but rather the fact that the missile malfunction because the fuse didn’t work.

Tremel went for the Sidewinder missile.

“It was really crazy, swinging that master arm for the first time in combat with an air-to-air missile selected,” he recalled.

But it didn’t work.

“Real time, I thought I might have been too close,” Tremel said. “I thought maybe I hit (the jet) but it didn’t fuse in time.”

So Tremel turned to the AIM-120, an advanced medium-range missile.

“That got the job done from about half a mile,” he said.

The inside story of how a US Navy pilot shot down a Syrian jet

It was the American military's first shootdown of an enemy plane since 1999

www.navytimes.com

 

[Ronny]

I believe the US should unofficially send the F-35 VLO miracle to target S-400 batteries and confront the russians with humiliating facts on the ground. Certainly, this capability exists in more than marketing brochures, so why not use it in glorious combat?

They wouldn’t even send their latest F-16 version, there is zero chance they would send F-35. USA want Ukraine to win, but they also want this war to drag out to hurt Russia economy

For lovers of Amraam, there is a P-77. There are no Western analogues of the R-37M, the range is from 200 to 380 km (real work

MBDA Meteor would be quite decent against R-37

First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31

?? Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31. Самая дальнобойная ракета, которая доказала свою эффективность, периодически опуская с небес на землю летающих хрюшек. А мы напоминаем, что любой из вас может оставить свою надпись на точно такой же ракете за...

rutube.ru

They already use MALD in Ukraine and F-16 can carry them on triple ejector rack just like how they carry MK-82
Majority of target that get shotdown would be these decoys

 

[NMaude]

The bleeding edge (by US standards) AIM-9X has been successfully defeated by soviet export flares from an su-22m4. It was funny, if not dire.

The AIM-9X uses an imaging seeker unlike earlier models so I have my doubts that Soviet-era IR decoy flares would work on it.

No it won't, P-37M is for high value targets such as AWACS, raptors and nuke carrying bombers.

Also how many AA-13s are in Russia's inventory?

F-16 is a cheap target requiring cheap SAMs from the 70s.

The F-16s that are being sent to Ukraine aren't the original limited F-16A/Bs, they are much more capable F-16C/Ds that have been continuously updated and they won't be easy targets. Once those F-16s are flying in Ukraine the situation for the Russian airforce units there is going to get a lot more dicey.

MBDA Meteor would be quite decent against R-37

Year, the Meteor would give the AA-13 a run for its money and being ramjet powered it has a big no-escape zone.

They already use MALD in Ukraine and F-16 can carry them on triple ejector rack just like how they carry MK-82
Majority of target that get shotdown would be these decoys

I suspect that the Ukrainians are going to find it a lot easier to go after SA-12/20/21 batteries with the F-16 no doubt spamming them with ADM-160s and killing them with AGM-88s.

 

[TMA1]

Paralay is right. The f-16 fighters WILL be targeted with the R-37m. They are high value targets not necessarily in themselves but because of what they represent. Another escalation which Russia will naturally try and rebuff. If I was a Russian I would want those fighters destroyed as a message to the west.

The R-37m can pull pretty tight at high speed and frankly it doesnt need to be so agile as even at long ranges these monsters are traveling fast. By the time the seeker head actively homes in on you, you have little time to do anything. Now I am sure these f-16 fighters will be connected with our elint aircraft and itself will have much better missile warning than the mig-29. Still though I think it is highly unwise to underestimate the Russian pilots and underestimate Russian missiles.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

it wasn’t the flare that defeated the AIM-9X but rather the fact that the missile malfunction because the fuse didn’t work.

Asserting that for some mysterious reason the fuse did not work sounds suspiciously like post-mortem propaganda spin to detract from the fact that it had indeed been disrupted by precambrian countermeasures. It was common practice in Vietnam to officially report legitimate combat losses as training flights gone awry so that the party line can maintain its carefully manicured kill ratios. And then came the forced withdrawal, which was itself another magnanimous victory if the current histories are to be believed.

Also how many AA-13s are in Russia's inventory?

it's a state secret, however adventurers can always gauge its effectiveness to their own detriment and enter the ukryin crucible, where the performance of all cargo cultist weapons is laid bare.

The F-16s that are being sent to Ukraine aren't the original limited F-16A/Bs, they are much more capable F-16C/Ds that have been continuously updated and they won't be easy targets.

A/B cannot even be considered operational, while the main version, the C, is itself obsolete by today's standards.

 

[GTX]

Can we tone down the nationalistic "my plane/missile is better than yours" rhetoric please. It is boring and taking the thread off topic.

 

[F-2]

Besides AMRAAM APG-66(v)2 is probably going to better able to operate in a contested environment.

According to Farzard Bishop & Tom Cooper, Iran-Iraq War in the Air 1980-1988, Page 266, Iranian F-4E with AN/ALQ-119(V) -17 were already able to jam N019 as far back as 1988. If nothing else the Russians have never operated the system.

 

[NMaude]

while the main version, the C, is itself obsolete by today's standards.

The C-model has been constantly updated since it entered service in the 1980s, the current Cs (And Ds) are a great deal more capable than the original Cs, they are far from obsolete.

 

[Ronny]

Asserting that for some mysterious reason the fuse did not work sounds suspiciously like post-mortem propaganda spin to detract from the fact that it had indeed been disrupted by precambrian countermeasures.

There is nothing particularly mysterious about malfunctioned fuse, it is actually quite a common occurrence on the battlefield. Failed fuse is the key reason why cluster bomb are prohibited by many countries.
The pilot also mentioned that he was flying too close to target which is another plausible reason on why the missile didn't explode since AAM have a minimum range before the fuse active to avoid damaging the aircraft that launched them. As per pilot account, Su-22 was shootdown at distance of half a miles or about 800 meters, which mean the whole engagement was at very close distance.
Imaging infrared guided missiles such as AIM-9X, IRIS-T, ASRAAM can distinguish between aircraft and flares because they can see the shape of target, there is no reason to believe that for some magical reason the flares dropped by Su-22 create the exact shape of the plane

It was common practice in Vietnam to officially report legitimate combat losses as training flights gone awry so that the party line can maintain its carefully manicured kill ratios. And then came the forced withdrawal, which was itself another magnanimous victory if the current histories are to be believed.

Missile kill ratio has always included all miss regardless of reason (malfunctioned or deceived by countermeasure are treated the same for the ratio), so there would be no reason for the so called "post-mortem propaganda". Vietnam was has always counted as a lost for the USA, I don't know where you got the idea that USA think it is a magnanimous victory.

 

[yahya]

Does anyone know if MLU or specially-fitted ex-KLu F-16s will be donated?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/netherlands-deliver-18-f-16-fighter-jets-ukraine-2023-12-22/

 

[Arjen]

That's all that was left in KLu inventory when the decision was made to provide them to Ukraine - MLU F-16s.

F-16

De F-16 Fighting Falcon MLU (midlife update) is een multifunctioneel jachtvliegtuig (multirole). Het toestel kan zowel precisiebombardementen uitvoeren als een luchtgevecht voeren. De F-16 vormt het belangrijkste deel van de slagkracht van de Koninklijke Luchtmacht.

www.defensie.nl

 

[yahya]

Thank you for the reply. Apart from the IDM, will these birds be fitted with any extra avionics or upgrades before going to Ukraine?

 

[Arjen]

I don't know.
KLu F-16s were kept longer than was expected in the early noughties, because F-35 development took longer. This caused them to receive more updates than originally planned - a more capable configuration than the one foreseen when they would have been replaced according to the original plans.

 

[yahya]

Ukraine will likely receive it first shipment of advanced F-16s in the next few days

Ukraine will likely receive it first shipment of advanced F-16s in the next few days, Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in a phone call as Kyiv seeks to disrupt Russia’s air superiority over Ukrainian skies amid continued battles on December 23 in the east and...

citizenwatchreport.com

And from Ukrainian sources:

Ukraine will receive modified F-16 fighter jets: Air Force reveals details

Our country expects that the aircraft can be improved even further | Obozrevatel

eng.obozrevatel.com

 

[yahya]

There are rumors that between a dozen to two dozen F-16s have already been delivered in the dismantled state to Ukraine. Any confirmation?

 

[jsport]

F-16 electronic self-protection system completes government lab integration

The F-16 IVEWS system completed lab integration, setting the stage for its first flight test.

defensescoop.com

 

[NMaude]

There are rumors that between a dozen to two dozen F-16s have already been delivered in the dismantled state to Ukraine. Any confirmation?

That is news to me, from what I understand the F-16C/Ds being donated have been flown to Romania where the Ukrainian pilots will finish their conversion training.

 

[nicoow99]

Hello

Can someone tell me what I have circled in the picture? Multiple US fighters have it but I can't figure out for what it is.

Many thanks.

 

[TomcatViP]

Air force set to receive 66 F-16V jets over two years - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

 

[TomcatViP]

Hello

Can someone tell me what I have circled in the picture? Multiple US fighters have it but I can't figure out for what it is.

Many thanks.

Honestly, I was thinking it was a gopro, as much of these video are made for YouTube. Do you have another picture?