Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon Developments

www.arabnews.com

Ankara expects US ‘green light’ for F-16 sale

ANKARA: Turkiye is confident its long-awaited $6 billion deal to buy F-16 fighter jets will go ahead after the US House of Representatives introduced an amendment to the annual defense budget bill removing a series of hurdles to the sale. On Tuesday, lawmakers in the US Senate and House reached...
www.arabnews.com www.arabnews.com
 
Maro.Kyo said:
The biggest helping hand in recent success of Rafale was LM themselves, or more to be exact the transition of F-16 production lines from FW to Greenville for the sake of F-35s on FW. They've ceased production for a few years during the transition and with current capacity of GV facility they are only able to manufacture four F-16s a month. Not a small number by any means, but their backlogs are full until late 2020s. Add to that the increased program cost of F-16 Block 70/72 which nullified its major advantage over Rafale.
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To give some perspective to what I wrote, I've made a comparison of the LM FW plant with the new GV plant for F-16 as well as few other plants. The satellite image scale differs a little bit but its only marginal.

lm fw.png
lm gv ds kai.jpg

In terms of CAPEX of GV plant, LM said they are looking for ways to expand from current capacity of four F-16s per month, but in reality, they aren't even using the full tooling capacity and are instead known to be manufacturing closer to three aircrafts per month in the moment. Other than that, the GV plant was also where they were supposed to build T-50As had this plane been selected for T-X but that didn't happen. Should the USAF select TF-50 for the ATT or the USN choose T-50A for UJTS, GV plant will indeed see some major CAPEX effort, which could also mean increased F-16 manufacturing capacity should the need arise. We'll see how the outcome of both programs go, but since the selection of ATT and in conjunction the UJTS are only planned for mid-late 2020s, the CAPEX could come too late for the F-16V FMS. Besides, LM and KAI aren't really expecting TF-50 to be selected in the ATT program for obvious reasons. Guess they see more chances in the UJTS.
 
NMaude said:
On another note what is the likelihood in the next decade or two of the F-36 Kingsnake derivative of the F-16 being developed and put into production?
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Kingsnake was an imaginary aircraft created as a what-if when the MR-X was first mentioned. Besides, should the problems with the F-35 supply and sustainment program persist (ie. further delays to the JSE, Milestone C and FRP, promised CFPH not being met, etc etc) and the USAF seriously consider MR-X, I really think that the MR-X should be something like a stealthy, modernized F-16XL. I mean Harry Hillaker himself admitted that F-16XL as a design was more suited to what F-16 was actually doing, so better late than never. Not to mention that the Hush-Kit Kingsnake quite exactly look like a "stealthy F-16XL".
 
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The Dutch cabinet said will look into supplying F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine if the Kyiv government asks for them, the country's media have reported.

During a parliamentary debate last week, foreign affairs minister Wopke Hoekstra said the cabinet would look at such a request with an "open mind".
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news.sky.com

F-16 fighter jets: What are they and could they be sent to help Ukraine?

They can fly at more than 1,200mph and are some of the most advanced aircraft in NATO's fleet. Could the F-16 be sent to Ukraine?
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Maro.Kyo said:
The biggest helping hand in recent success of Rafale was LM themselves, or more to be exact the transition of F-16 production lines from FW to Greenville for the sake of F-35s on FW. They've ceased production for a few years during the transition and with current capacity of GV facility they are only able to manufacture four F-16s a month. Not a small number by any means, but their backlogs are full until late 2020s. Add to that the increased program cost of F-16 Block 70/72 which nullified its major advantage over Rafale.
Click to expand...
To give some perspective to what I wrote, I've made a comparison of the LM FW plant with the new GV plant for F-16 as well as few other plants. The satellite image scale differs a little bit but its only marginal.

View attachment 690323
View attachment 690324

In terms of CAPEX of GV plant, LM said they are looking for ways to expand from current capacity of four F-16s per month, but in reality, they aren't even using the full tooling capacity and are instead known to be manufacturing closer to three aircrafts per month in the moment. Other than that, the GV plant was also where they were supposed to build T-50As had this plane been selected for T-X but that didn't happen. Should the USAF select TF-50 for the ATT or the USN choose T-50A for UJTS, GV plant will indeed see some major CAPEX effort, which could also mean increased F-16 manufacturing capacity should the need arise. We'll see how the outcome of both programs go, but since the selection of ATT and in conjunction the UJTS are only planned for mid-late 2020s, the CAPEX could come too late for the F-16V FMS. Besides, LM and KAI aren't really expecting TF-50 to be selected in the ATT program for obvious reasons. Guess they see more chances in the UJTS.
Click to expand...
The Fort Worth plant is a legacy "hand me down" from clear back to WWII - its size doesn't really say anything about just how much real estate is needed for an F-16 production line let alone an F-35 line too. We went thru the same "downsizing" of sites when the Super Hornet line was set up in new buildings and the original Curtiss Wright, then McDonnell then McDonnell Douglas buildings were abandoned. The old buildings, including the offices, are simply just sitting there. The production line building (had the iconic McDonnell Aircraft and later McDonnell Douglas lit sign on the face) has been looked at for cargo facilities but that has failed to gain traction. Damage from a tornado a few years ago has not been repaired either so the building(s) are doomed to be demolished whenever a proposal to use the site comes to pass with funding to support it. MQ-25 production will be in a new purpose built site under construction over by Mid-America Airport/Scott AFB in Illinois. T-7A will be assembled (a more apt description) at Lambert within what was built for Eagle and Super Hornet production. If they somehow go to high rate production, there should be sufficient acreage to expand adjacent buildings.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
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The Greenville plant is ramping up production, though no specifics are mentioned.

Lockheed Martin is going to be ramping production on F-16s in Greenville [South Carolina, the USA] to get to the place where we will be able to backfill pretty capably any countries that choose to do third party transfers to help with the current conflict.
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www.yahoo.com

Manufacturer is ready to supply F-16 to countries that would transfer their aircraft to Ukraine

The manufacturer of American F-16 fighters is ready to supply its aircraft to European countries, which could re-export the fighter jets to Ukraine. Source: Financial Times, Frank St. John, Chief Operating Officer of Lockheed Martin Details: Lockheed Martin is the largest US defence contractor.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

 
NMaude said:
Nice videos.

However the prototype should be referred to as the XF-16A NOT YF-16A as it falsely implies it's preproduction/service test aircraft.
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Tell the US Air Force, not us. This was a deliberate choice.

I'll keep calling it YF-16 as that is what it was called, and adherence to reality trumps your opinion.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
NMaude said:
Nice videos.

However the prototype should be referred to as the XF-16A NOT YF-16A as it falsely implies it's preproduction/service test aircraft.
Click to expand...

Tell the US Air Force, not us. This was a deliberate choice.

I'll keep calling it YF-16 as that is what it was called, and adherence to reality trumps your opinion.
Click to expand...
Also, the prefix Y stands for Prototype since 1962. There is no "preproduction/service test" status.
 
Here's an interesting video about the testing of a heavily modified F-16D using an AI to fly autonomously without a pilot onboard:


Over a two-week span in December, a heavily modified F-16D Fighting Falcon took to the skies no fewer than a dozen times with an empty cockpit and an artificial intelligence (AI) pilot at the stick. But while pilot-less aircraft aren’t all that uncommon in the skies over warzones today, this Fighting Falcon was packing something different in its memory banks: AI algorithms complex enough to allow it to dogfight all on its own.
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The AI fighter pilots came from two different efforts, DARPA’s Air Combat Evolution (ACE) program and the Air Force Research Laboratory’s Autonomous Air Combat Operations, or AACO, program.
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Do USAF 's f16 have any missile approach warning sensors built into the airframe? If so, which models do they use?
 
Further to the above and the latest on the Ukrainian F-16 saga.

He also said that two Ukrainian pilots had undergone tests in the U.S. to assess their skills, which he said were "successful" and could lead to a "significant shortening" of the training time required for Ukrainian pilots.

He did not say how long that revised training time might be.
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www.reuters.com

Ukraine says coveted F-16s 'four or five times' better than its Soviet jets

A top Ukrainian air commander said Ukraine was in dire need of F-16 fighter jets, which he described on Thursday as "four or five times" more effective than the Soviet-era planes currently used by Ukraine.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
Flyaway said:
Further to the above and the latest on the Ukrainian F-16 saga.

He also said that two Ukrainian pilots had undergone tests in the U.S. to assess their skills, which he said were "successful" and could lead to a "significant shortening" of the training time required for Ukrainian pilots.

He did not say how long that revised training time might be.
Click to expand...

www.reuters.com

Ukraine says coveted F-16s 'four or five times' better than its Soviet jets

A top Ukrainian air commander said Ukraine was in dire need of F-16 fighter jets, which he described on Thursday as "four or five times" more effective than the Soviet-era planes currently used by Ukraine.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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If they're talking about experienced Ukrainian MiG-29 pilots then it's just a matter of an operational conversion course as opposed to training new F-16 pilots from scratch (Which would take a LOT longer) which I imagine would only take a few months.

On another note it occurred to me that that new AI pilot system for flying a unmanned F-16 could be adapted for controlling the new QF-16A target-drones so as to be more realistic targets when testing AAMs and SAMs against them.

Edit: From the article:

Washington has ruled out sending F-16 jets to Ukraine for now, and U.S. officials have estimated the most expeditious time needed for training and delivery at 18 months.
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I'd like to know why the Biden DoD is being not only disingenuous but dishonest here? If you're taking Ukrainian MiG-29 pilots who're already highly experienced fast-jet pilots it's not going to take them 18 months to train them to fly F-16s it would only take a few months in an Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) to train them to fly an F-16. The 18 month figure is a red-herring as this applies only to a rookie who's never flown an aircraft before and is being trained from scratch.
 
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How many proficient pilots does Ukraine have left?

The danger is with contractors rushing to fly F-16 for them. Even if those are ex-Dan, Belgian or from the Netherland, it would still look as if the USAF is covertly engaged.

Gripen, Mirages will perfectly do. Better in that scenario. I see a great opportunity for France to trade, as did some European nations, Mirage for Lightning (call it the Zeus plan!) . There is nothing to loose. There will be dozens of pilots volunteering from every nations having flown the type.

Edit: Gripen in Ukraine will never happen until Sweden is protected among NATO. France being the farthest country from Russia should stand for its responsibility as being de-facto covered by its allies.
 
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TomcatViP said:
How many proficient pilots does Ukraine has left?
Click to expand...

Good question, I don't know but I won't be surprised if the Ukrainian airforce has more pilots than it does MiG-29s.

TomcatViP said:
The danger is with contractors rushing to fly F-16 for them.
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A good point however I could see a two-tier training system with one tier being converting the remaining experienced MiG-29 pilots to the F-16 and the other tier (Which would take longer but then the war in Ukraine is likely to last at least another year) being new pilots and partially trained pilots doing the longer training period taking up to 18 months.

TomcatViP said:
Gripen, Mirages will perfectly do. Better in that scenario.
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The former would be a good choice and Sweden does have a number of JAS-39A/Bs in storage which it could donate to Ukraine along spares and retraining for Ukrainian pilots and ground-crew to fly and service them.

Also don't forget that the UK has offered a number of its' Tranche 1 Typhoon T1 and F2 fighters to Ukraine.
 
First F-16 Scramble for Romania:

2-NBR5P2.jpg


ac.nato.int

Romanian F-16s launch first Alert Scramble safeguarding Baltic airspace

&nbsp ŠIAULIAI, Lithuani - On April 7, 2023, two Romanian F-16 fighter jets from NATO's Baltic Air Policing mission launched to identify and escort two Russian Suhoi Su-27 Flanker fighters The suc...
ac.nato.int ac.nato.int
 
Denmark has said that, together with its allies, it will decide “before the summer” as to whether they will provide Ukraine with the fighter jets the country has long been campaigning for. During a visit today to Ukraine, Troels Lund Poulsen, Denmark’s acting defense minister, confirmed that the matter was under discussion but that the process was taking a long time due to the requirement for different countries to cooperate on any such transfer of aircraft.
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www.thedrive.com

Ukraine Situation Report: Denmark To Decide By Summer On F-16s For Kyiv

Denmark is the latest European NATO member to consider if it might be able to transfer F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
 
Talks on a potential donation of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine are progressing, Netherlands Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on Thursday during a visit by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to The Hague, but no decision has been made.
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www.reuters.com

Dutch PM says talks on F-16s for Ukraine progressing

Talks on a potential donation of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine are progressing, Netherlands Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on Thursday during a visit by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to The Hague, but no decision has been made.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 

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