Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon Developments

I wonder where all those planes are going to be refurbished and put more or less in a comune standards. Belgium?
 
Slovak F-16 Block 70 unveiled!
news.lockheedmartin.com

Lockheed Martin and Slovak Republic Minister of Defence Unveil Country’s First F-16 Block 70 Aircraft

GREENVILLE, S.C, Sept. 7, 2023 – The first F-16 Block 70 aircraft for the Slovak Republic was unveiled at Lockheed Martin’s (NYSE: LMT) facility in Greenville, South Carolina, during a visit...
news.lockheedmartin.com news.lockheedmartin.com

two thoughts.
1. If this has an AESA radar, is it necessary to have the pitot tube on the radome? the Block 60 does away with the tube.
2. Since HaveGlass V is trending now, I am surprised its not applied on these new builds
F-16+Block+70+Beauty+Shot_1200.jpg
 
helmutkohl said:
1. If this has an AESA radar, is it necessary to have the pitot tube on the radome? the Block 60 does away with the tube.
Click to expand...
Block 60s have an all new radome and reworked nose section for their APG-80 radars.
The APG-83 installed in new Block 70/72 F-16s and older F-16 updated to F-16V standard is a drop-in replacement of the older radar sets.
 
eagle said:
Block 60s have an all new radome and reworked nose section for their APG-80 radars.
The APG-83 installed in new Block 70/72 F-16s and older F-16 updated to F-16V standard is a drop-in replacement of the older radar sets.
Click to expand...
right the advantage of the 83 is that its scalable to different types of F-16s.
but this still begs the question, why doesnt the newer block 70s re-use the new radome of the 60? The block 70s dont have to be bound to the older airframe designs no?

or does the UAE have some kind of ownership of certain Block 60 technologies that make it difficult?
 
helmutkohl said:
or does the UAE have some kind of ownership of certain Block 60 technologies that make it difficult?
Click to expand...
They do, they want to see licence payments ;)
But it's not only that. The first operators looking for an upgrade including AESA were the RoKAF, ROCAF and the USAF. Korea initially selected the BAE offering with Raytheon's RACR, but Taiwan and the USAF went with LM's upgrade with NG's APG-83. Subsequently the RoKAF cancelled the contract with BAE and selected the now defacto standard LM upgrade with the APG-83 radar instead (aka the F-16V Viper) .
All of these 3 programs were upgrades to existing F-16s, so the new radar had to fit into older airframes. LM then offered this package for their latest new build version aswell, which is the F-16C/D Block 70/72.
Surely LM would offer a newer version of the F-16E/F Block 60, if anyone wants to pay for it, but so far, customers prefer the safer and cheaper option.
 
eagle said:
They do, they want to see licence payments ;)
But it's not only that. The first operators looking for an upgrade including AESA were the RoKAF, ROCAF and the USAF. Korea initially selected the BAE offering with Raytheon's RACR, but Taiwan and the USAF went with LM's upgrade with NG's APG-83. Subsequently the RoKAF cancelled the contract with BAE and selected the now defacto standard LM upgrade with the APG-83 radar instead (aka the F-16V Viper) .
All of these 3 programs were upgrades to existing F-16s, so the new radar had to fit into older airframes. LM then offered this package for their latest new build version aswell, which is the F-16C/D Block 70/72.
Surely LM would offer a newer version of the F-16E/F Block 60, if anyone wants to pay for it, but so far, customers prefer the safer and cheaper option.
Click to expand...
I'm amazed that the UAE managed to get such a deal. Is that true for the F110-GE-132 engine as well? It seems odd that the latest F-15s or F-16s powered by F110s don't use that variant.
 
Not sure if this belongs here but found these images on the SDAM site, no info. Some type of anti-shipping missile?
 

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Could we soon see this?

post-3395-0-00763300-1455450861_thumb.jpg


www.reuters.com

Exclusive: Biden aides in talks with Vietnam for arms deal that could irk China

A package could include U.S. F-16 fighter jets and come with special financing terms that could help Hanoi steer away from its reliance on lower-cost Russian-made arms.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

thediplomat.com

Will Vietnam Buy F-16 Fighter Jets and US Sub Hunting Planes?

With the lifting of the arms embargo, Vietnam is purportedly mulling the purchase of U.S. military aircraft.
thediplomat.com

bulgarianmilitary.com

F-16 Viper could fly alongside Su-30 in Vietnam People's Air Force

There is talk of Vietnam's People's Air Force acquiring F-16 fighters. VPAF currently maintains a fleet of 10 Su-27s, complemented by 35 Su-30s and 34 Su-22s.
bulgarianmilitary.com bulgarianmilitary.com
 
I assume it will be replacing the Su-22s. what kind of ordinances does the F-16 have for anti shipping missions? Harpoon?
 
helmutkohl said:
I assume it will be replacing the Su-22s. what kind of ordinances does the F-16 have for anti shipping missions? Harpoon?
Click to expand...

Harpoon is an option. Possibly Joint Strike Missile for something more modern. Or some Israeli or Turkish weapons, depending on how Vietnamese foreign policy looks.
 
GTX said:
Could we soon see this?

www.reuters.com

Exclusive: Biden aides in talks with Vietnam for arms deal that could irk China

A package could include U.S. F-16 fighter jets and come with special financing terms that could help Hanoi steer away from its reliance on lower-cost Russian-made arms.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

thediplomat.com

Will Vietnam Buy F-16 Fighter Jets and US Sub Hunting Planes?

With the lifting of the arms embargo, Vietnam is purportedly mulling the purchase of U.S. military aircraft.
thediplomat.com

bulgarianmilitary.com

F-16 Viper could fly alongside Su-30 in Vietnam People's Air Force

There is talk of Vietnam's People's Air Force acquiring F-16 fighters. VPAF currently maintains a fleet of 10 Su-27s, complemented by 35 Su-30s and 34 Su-22s.
bulgarianmilitary.com bulgarianmilitary.com
Click to expand...

Good way to cement US relations with Vietnam while giving the PRC the collective Finger;):D.

helmutkohl said:
I assume it will be replacing the Su-22s. what kind of ordinances does the F-16 have for anti shipping missions? Harpoon?
Click to expand...

Well there's the Harpoon, Penguin, as mentioned by another poster Israeli and/or Turkish weapons also I suppose the Storm Shadow, NSM, Taurus, JASSM and maybe the SLAM-ER. Also what about designing, testing and building a suitable adapter pylon to enable the F-16s to carry and launch existing Soviet-era/Russian ASMs in Vietnamese inventory?
 
The first U.S.-made F-16 combat aircraft the Netherlands is donating Ukraine will arrive in Romania's training centre within two weeks, outgoing Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on Monday.

"I expect the Patriot missiles to be delivered shortly, to aid Ukraine in the upcoming winter. And the same speed applies to the F-16s," Rutte during a video conference with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskiy posted on messaging platform X, formerly known as Twitter.

"The first ones will be shipped to the training centre in Romania within the next two weeks so that day we will get ready for further training," he added.
Click to expand...
www.reuters.com

Dutch F-16s for Ukraine to arrive in Romania within two weeks-Rutte

The first U.S.-made F-16 combat aircraft the Netherlands is donating Ukraine will arrive in Romania's training centre within two weeks, outgoing Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said on Monday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 

Рыбарь

❗️ О прибытии F-16 на Украину Этой ночью из Польши на Украину въехало два грузовика, в которых находилось два разобранных американских истребителя F-16. По состоянию на 2 ноября на территорию Украины уже перевезено пять самолетов этого типа. ▪️С одной стороны, поставки американских...
t.me t.me

Rybar writes that first f-16 airframes have been moved into Ukraine. Now, it's easy to just say he's making it up. But one is left wondering if there is ANY other similar claim/indication from any other source on those f-16s?
 
totoro said:

Рыбарь

❗️ О прибытии F-16 на Украину Этой ночью из Польши на Украину въехало два грузовика, в которых находилось два разобранных американских истребителя F-16. По состоянию на 2 ноября на территорию Украины уже перевезено пять самолетов этого типа. ▪️С одной стороны, поставки американских...
t.me t.me

Rybar writes that first f-16 airframes have been moved into Ukraine. Now, it's easy to just say he's making it up. But one is left wondering if there is ANY other similar claim/indication from any other source on those f-16s?
Click to expand...
I have seen nothing pointing to any F-16s having been moved to Ukraine yet. Neither have I seen any credible rumours pointing to any being moved to Ukraine before spring. However, the first flights of Ukrainian pilots in twin-seater Vipers are about to commence any day now.
 
Topi said:
I have seen nothing pointing to any F-16s having been moved to Ukraine yet.
Click to expand...

Hasn't the Netherlands started transferring the F-16s it said it would donate to Ukraine to Romania for pilot training?
 
In Ukriinya's particular case, operating F-16 point defense fighters would be a downgrade compared to, dare I say it, soviet era mig-29s not to mention the flankers they already had.
I believe the US should unofficially send the F-35 VLO miracle to target S-400 batteries and confront the russians with humiliating facts on the ground. Certainly, this capability exists in more than marketing brochures, so why not use it in glorious combat?
 
As posted earlier:
The Dutch F-16s destined for Ukraine have been upgraded throughout their service lives with the Dutch air force. Added since their introduction: adapted for and using Litening-, LANTIRN-, FLIR- and ECM-pods, night vision goggles, terrain following system, AN/APG-66v2 radar, integration of AIM-9X - IRIS-T - AMRAAM - GBU-47.
 
Wallmart Republic said:
In Ukriinya's particular case, operating F-16 point defense fighters would be a downgrade compared to, dare I say it, soviet era mig-29s not to mention the flankers they already had.
Click to expand...
You are severely underestimating the Dutch F-16s here.

Soviet era MiG-29s would have no chance against them in air-air combat, plus only rudimentary ground attack capability in comparison.
 
And we are highly underestimating Russias air defense and EW umbrella and fighter network. Whether people here would like to admit it or not part of our aura of invincibility comes from our air force. If Russia is able to fairly easily knock out our f-16 fighters from the sky it will not look good. At first Russia will take casualties, and then they will learn our tactics and defend against them better. I cannot see how this will result in anything good.
 
Wallmart Republic said:
In Ukriinya's particular case, operating F-16 point defense fighters would be a downgrade compared to, dare I say it, soviet era mig-29s not to mention the flankers they already had.
I believe the US should unofficially send the F-35 VLO miracle to target S-400 batteries and confront the russians with humiliating facts on the ground. Certainly, this capability exists in more than marketing brochures, so why not use it in glorious combat?
Click to expand...
Nonsense. Those are not vanilla F-16A/Bs with no BVR capability like in the 80s. Dutch (& Danish, Norwegian and Belgian) F-16s went through a Mid Life Update (MLU) program around the turn of the century that brought them to a level comparable to the F-16C/D Block 50/52 in terms of capabilities. They have received constant updates (mostly software) since then that added even more capabilities. They are able to employ modern weapons like AIM-120C, AIM-9X, AGM-88 HARM, all the JDAM family, JSOW, SDB and modern targeting pods like Litening and Sniper XR. They are significantly more capable than the vanilla, Soviet-era MiG-29s and even Su-27s that Ukraine is currently using. A Dutch F-16 MLU literally shot down a Soviet-era MiG-29 (a Yugoslavian one) with an AMRAAM during the Kosovo war back in 1999...

That being said, the F-16 MLU will not be some kind of "wonder weapons" that will turn the tide of the war but it will be a useful addition to Kyiv's arsenal as well as another big step towards the "westernization" of Ukrainian armed forces.
 
Last edited:
ST21 said:
A Dutch F-16 MLU literally shootdown a Soviet-era MiG-29 (a Yugoslavian one) with an AMRAAM during the Kosovo war back in 1999...
Click to expand...

I have a strong suspicion that some time in 2024 after the F-16s have been deployed by the Ukrainian airforce the Russians are going to find out the hard way why the AIM-120 is known as the "Slammer".
 
ST21 said:
A Dutch F-16 MLU literally shot down a Soviet-era MiG-29 (a Yugoslavian one) with an AMRAAM during the Kosovo war back in 1999...
Click to expand...

Yugoslavia's migs were among the least advanced due to their political unreliability.
In any case, post cold war altercations were not wars in the true sense of the word as the hostilities were entirely one-sided. Swarms of coalition aircraft could indeed lounge and loiter for months at leisure without their airbases receiving a prompt kinetic calling card, though one F-16 was swatted by a legacy s-125 if I remember correctly.

Much has changed since the 90s however, and the old skirmishes USAF tactics are attuned to against some half-starved country bear no relevance whatsoever to the situation at hand. Failure to grasp this crucial distinction would lead, I'm afraid, to a UK-style descent into irrelevance.
Any old school safari-goers would find that the ECM and SAM saturated skies over ukryin are much less pleasant than what they're accustomed to.
But there is still hope yet, if the F-35 delivers on what was promised and puts its sensor suite to good use under real life conditions.
 
Last edited:
overscan (PaulMM) said:
You are severely underestimating the Dutch F-16s here.

Soviet era MiG-29s would have no chance against them in air-air combat, plus only rudimentary ground attack capability in comparison.
Click to expand...
Why not, the nimble P-73 is a death sentence within its engagement envelope as the USAF has learned in its DACT sessions and the P-27 in its multiple versions is by no means deprecated.
For ground attack they already have the specialist and longer ranged Su-24 anyway which can penetrate at low level with terrain following to deliver heavy ordnance and the rugged Su-25 for CAS roles. Or have these hundreds of jets gone with the wind already, in which case, it does not bode well for last century's F-16s.
 
R-73 was a decent missile in its era, outclassed now. R-27 is not great, and much inferior to ASRAAM. An/APG-66V2 very much superior to N019. F-16 can carry targeting pods and A/G weapons superior to anything Ukraine has now.

F-16 won't be immune to Russian air defences, sure, but they are an upgrade. A lot will depend on supplied weapons and pods.
 
Wallmart Republic said:
Why not, the nimble P-73 is a death sentence within its engagement envelope as the USAF has learned in its DACT sessions and the P-27 in its multiple versions is by no means deprecated.
Click to expand...

As Paul said the AA-11 Archer in its time was a capable short-range IR-guided AAM and the AA-10 Alamo is basically the Soviet equivalent of a late model AIM-7 Sparrow.
 
NMaude said:
I have a strong suspicion that some time in 2024 after the F-16s have been deployed by the Ukrainian airforce the Russians are going to find out the hard way why the AIM-120 is known as the "Slammer".
Click to expand...
First, the F-16 will get acquainted with the P-37M, it knocks down everything that had the temerity to take off

rutube.ru

Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31

?? Пуски ракет класса "воздух-литак" большой дальности Р-37М с истребителей МиГ-31. Самая дальнобойная ракета, которая доказала свою эффективность, периодически опуская с небес на землю летающих хрюшек. А мы напоминаем, что любой из вас может оставить свою надпись на точно такой же ракете за...
rutube.ru rutube.ru
 

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