Little-Known French Projects and Prototypes

[hesham]

Hi,

here is an idea for variable swing arrow wing research airplane of 1941,designed by
Mr. Pierre Launay and Mr. Marc Sommier,looks like a fighter Project ?.

 

[hesham]

here is the Jean Simon unknown helicopter project,there's no sign for this design
on Internet.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k65560687/f2.image

Here is a more Info about this designer and his anther idea,from TU 291;

In 1932 Jean Simon patented a
boundary layer control device
called "turbo-rotor." This device consisted in adapting a turbo-rotor to
paddle or vane, mechanically driven, positioned at the center of
running over the entire span of the wing.
The air circulating on the extrados was sucked in and
repressed on the underside. Several provisions
of the idea were patented and a demonstrator was tested at the wind tunnel of
STAé in Issy-les-Moulineaux in May 1933
under the direction of the Chief Engineer
Lapresle. Built at Zodiac, on the
plans of Simon, this wing of experience
was constituted by a rectangular plane
thick profile: box construction
wood, duralumin rotor, mounting on ball rollings and steel bearings. The
motive power was given by two compressed air turbines placed at each end of the rotor. The dimensions were:
length of 1,430 m; profile depth
297 mm; 53 mm thick; total thickness with the rotor of 90 mm (the rotor exceeded under the intrados).

The tunnel tests demonstrated
especially that the rotor had to turn to a
extremely high speed. In the
it could not exceed 3,000 tr/mn,
which proved very insufficient, the aspiration
at the extrados then being almost zero. he
should have reached a speed of at
minus 8 500/9 000 tr/mn, which was not
possible with compressed air turbines.

 

[hesham]

From ROTARY WING AIRCRAFT HANDBOOKS AND HISTORY VOLUME 13,

Mr. L. E. Trouffion had begun a construction of a helicopter in 1928 ?.

 

[dan_inbox]

Wonder if there is some joke in that piece: "Le Trouffion" is French military slang for "the low-rank soldier"...

 

[hesham]

Wonder if there is some joke in that piece: "Le Trouffion" is French military slang for "the low-rank soldier"...

Frankly,I don't know my dear Dan.

 

[hesham]

With apologies for the picture quality - they are scans of contemporary newspaper photographs - here are two of the 50 CV Peitz Avionette. Does anyone have any better images of or information about this obscure little French aeroplane?

From Ailes 19/4/1958,

here is a Peitz-101 light aircraft.

Peitz 101 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hesham]

From Ailes 24/1/1953,

here is an odd idea for a Project from Mr. Philippe George,it was airplane of 1924,with
removable nacelles ?.

Les Ailes : journal hebdomadaire de la locomotion aérienne / directeur, rédacteur en chef, Georges Houard | 1953-01-24 | Gallica

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Jemiba,

The W. Margoulis was designed in 1922 tilt-propeller triplane,and powered
by two 320 hp ABC Dragonfly engines,mounted between the top two wings
and remained a project.

From L'Aeronautique 1922.

 

[hesham]

here is the Maurice Brion fighter,it was a single seat fighter biplane,and put the
upper wing behind the cockpit to make a good vision for the pilot,the aircraft
mention in Les Ailes journal and in Trait d'Union magazine also,may be intended
for 1930 C.1 contest,we know about 31 to 32 entries competed in this competition,
many of them remained a drawing board only.


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k65537145/f6.image

From L'Aeronautique 1922,

also Mr. Maurice Brion designed and created some new ideas for aircraft shapes.

 

[hesham]

From Aerophile 1918,

I don't know if this odd airplane Project was related to Charles Roux or not ?.

 

[dan_inbox]

This proposal is not for an airplane, but for a crash-dampening device. Sort of what the airbags do in modern cars.

 

[hesham]

But in translation they mention airplane ?.

 

[dan_inbox]

Yes, a crash-dampening device -- for airplanes

 

[hesham]

From L'Air Revue 1928,

here is an unknown Project for Letord for transatlantic proposed,it was a high-wing three engined
monoplane and if the motors failed,it could converted into a boat,maybe it was the same which
mentioned in TU magazine as a postal aircraft ?.

 

[hesham]

From L'Aeronautique Paris 1923,

here is a small Info about mystery aircraft,called BS 2,designed by Zodiac company and intended
for two-seat light bomber and combat aircraft in B.2 category,we know this company very much,
but never heard about this before

 

[hesham]

Hi,

does anyone hear about Bonneville seaplane aircraft of 1919

 

[World B4]

Well, I took my old T.U. collection to gather twin-boom projects but I am glad to find another pearl:
From the same Trait d'Union #207: "In 1934, Pierre Gemy designed a machine that was not intended to fly but only to learn. What was called at that time a "roller" (? "rouleur" in French). When speed is high enough, only the main wheel supports the machine, with balance controlled by the pilot. Wing of 6m x 1m. Empty weight 150kg. Engine Harley of 14 or 15hp. Not finished in 1936. Actual rolling not confirmed."

That is fascinating! Kinda reminds me of this totally safe looking... thing: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...ilds-working-prototype--soar-10ft-ground.html

 

[hesham]

From TU 127,

there was a tourist aircraft of 1930,called Aeralt Type-3,and powered by one 60 hp
Salmson engine,no more details are known.

 

[hesham]

From TU 175,

here is a Les Aiglons side-by-side two-seat parasol wing light monoplane of 1938,powered by one 40/45 hp Salmson engine.

 

[hesham]

From TU 170,

Mr. Fernand Argoud designed a light monoplane aircraft in 1934,powered by one motorcycle Harley-
Daidson engine.

 

[Apophenia]

Designed and built in 1934. As stated, Fernand Argoud's monoplane was powered by a Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine but, it seems this was later replaced by an Anzani aircraft engine. Some reports say that Argoud had two more aircraft under construction (he wanted to start a flying school - at Marcilloles-Chambarran aka Penol-Les Burettes - but this scheme was thwarted by the outbreak of WW2). Argoud's single-seat, parasol monoplane survives and his grandson is looking for a restorer.

BTW: Fernand Lucien Argoud had some formal aviation background. From April 1917, he was a mechanic with 2ème Groupe d'aviation at Bron. From February 1918 Argoud worked on SPAD VIIs of SPA 152 (Groupe de chasse 22) until being demobilized in 1919.[/U]

 

[hesham]

here is a little known French aircraft projects,the Antares by Jean Angeli and
the Delma by Delambre et Maingon;

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6576024m/f5.image

A more Info about Jean Angeli Antares light aircraft.

From TU 175

 

[hesham]

From L'Air Revue 1942,

here is a light aircraft designed by Mr. Quenaud.

 

[hesham]

From L'Air Revue 1942,

here is a two light airplane drawings,designed by Mr. Jean Boucarnot and Mr. Demaret.

 

[hesham]

From L'Air 1943,

I spoke before about this designer,Mr. J. Pourrat and his airplane JP-01,he had also anther
aircraft,called JP-63,all details are here.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/french-light-civil-aircraft-projects-and-prototypes.16010/#post-343760

 

[hesham]

From L'Aeronautique 1922,

here is a list of French glider and motor glider aircraft,included one helicopter;

L'A\02B9eronautique [microform] : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Title from cover

archive.org

 

[avion ancien]

Isn't that simply a list of the entrants for the 1922 meeting at Combegrasse?

 

[Apophenia]

Isn't that simply a list of the entrants for the 1922 meeting at Combegrasse?

It is. http://claudel.dopp.free.fr/Les_planeurs/Histoire/Combegrasse-1922/Combegrasse-1922_machines.htm

 

[karel4]

Hi.
What is the type of airplane?
Honza

 

[GTX]

Hi.
What is the type of airplane?
Honza

We already have a thread on this - there was no definite answer IIRC.

 

[Jemiba]

As GTX wrote, no answer (still yet !), but this aircraft was discussed here
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...air-of-would-be-pre-war-french-bombers.30324/

 

[riggerrob]

The French caption says: “This is a glue, a glue ...”
Which to my mind means a bunch of random airplane parts glued together Perhaps to decoy attackers, perhaps a mock-up, perhaps as a Joke!
Hah!
Hah!
It includes the nose of a Potez 62/65 and the empennage (tail) of a Farman 223.
The turret contains three calibres/guns of considerable power.
If any reader can explain thi .... they are welcome me.
To my eyes, it looks like a prankster piled a heap of old bomber parts after the German invasion in 1941. Some prankster players laid a random bunch of parts on top of each other.

 

[galgot]

"C’est une colle" indeed means literally "it’s a glue", but it’s also an expression meaning it’s a very difficult question, upsetting cause answer difficult to find, thus "sticky" to the mind until you get the answer. So every time I see this pict , it bothers me cause I don't know what it is ... C'est une colle.
Yes it looks like a mix of 30/40s french bomber parts glued together , with an armored car turret added…

 

[hesham]

from Les Ailes journal,the designer Pierre Bazoin created two aircraft projects,the
first was tourist aircraft with inverse "M" shape,and the second was a six-engined
huge transatlantic flying boat in a weird configuration.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6560495x/f7.image

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[hesham]

Also from Onera Archive,we can find those Projects,according to their designers names;

Balzard was a tubular fuselage airplane Project of 1933
Bayon was a tailless airplane Project of 1927
Berthaume was airplane Project of 1934
Beniot was a tailless airplane Project of 1927
Cabasse was a tailless airplane Project of 1933
Capazza was a monoplane Project of 1928,maybe related to Louis Capazza ?
J.V.5 was a seaplane Project with folded floats,1929
Lemoigne was a 12 bi-motor airplane Project of 1938
Mainguet was airplane Project of 1938
Netzer was tailless airplane Project of 1934
Perrin 106 & Autogyro were airplane and autogyro of 1933 & 1935,
but was he the same guy of early helicopter in France,Edouard Alfred
Perrin ?
Pineau-Phalempin Ultra & Trimotor were a ultra-light and three engined Projects of 1923
Ploix was designed a two different airplanes in 1933
Proquitte was a three engined airplane Project of 1931
SFAM Type-2 was airplane Project of 1924
Schul was a tailless airplane of 1933,I don't know if he was a German
design or not ?
Shaffard was a two-seat airplane Project of 1928
Terme was a sesquiplane flying boat or seaplane Project of 1929
Tixier was airplane Project of 1932
Verger was airplane Project of 1935
Viratelle was a monoplane Project of 1929

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[Apophenia]

It's important to remember that dates listed in the ONERA: Essais en Soufflerie pdf correspond to wind tunnel tests. That gives a 'ballpark' for design/development but not a start date for a project.

One name in there is familiar ...

Rudolf Schul ... yes, he was German (and a member of the Modell- und Segelflug, Magdeburg). Schul patented the Schulsche Flügelform (Patent 509465), an inherently stable wing design. In November 1930, the Magdeberg club began work on a tailless parasol glider - the Schul-Marczinski Stadt Magdeburg.

With structural calculations by W. Marczinski, this glider was built to Schul's design (span 14.00 m, wing area 26.00 m2, NACA M 12 profile). Sometimes referred to by a generic name - Schwanzloses Segelflugzeug Rudolf Schul - this glider flew in February 1931. Performance was generally acceptable but the wingtip rudders were considered too small to be truly effective.

-- http://www.volaticum.com/luftfahrt-geschichte-1931.htm
-- http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/FT/FT1937/12/3561-1.jpg
-- https://www.j2mcl-planeurs.net/dbj2mcl/planeurs-machines/planeur-fiche_0int.php?code=1981

It seems that Schul was mainly interested in proving his wing theories. Here's something in English from Development of Tailless and All-Wing Gliders and Airplanes, R. W. E. Lademann, NACA Technical Memorandum No. 666, National Advisory Committee For Aeronautics, Washington, DC, 1932, page 10

"Since 1929 Rudolf Schul has been investigating models with new inherently stable wings charactsrized by the fact that each outer portion of the wing forms a hollow halfcone with its open side down and its vertex coinciding with the end point of the leading edge of the central portion of the wing. The Göttingen and Munk profiles are used, including the N.A.C.A. profile M 12. According to the model tests, good lift-drag ratios are obtainable, even with a smaller. aspect ratio, which, according to Schul, is attributable to the favorable effect of the wing tips on the marginal vortices, Schul's models exhibited remarkable stability in straightening out from any attitude of flight."

A few more notes on names ...

Berthaume: Likely Maurice Berthaume an aeronautical engineer who, four years later, began teaching at the École polytechnique féminine.

Capazza: Possibly Louis Capazza but ... he was known almost exclusively for lighter-than-air ships.

Lemoigne: Probably Ing. Pierre-Marcel Lemoigne. Best known for sport parachute design, he was became a test pilot in the 1930s (gaining a World altitude record in a Gourdou-Leseurre LGL-32). Before the war, Lemoigne was acquainted with Michel Détroyat (winner of two Coupes Michelin and the Thompson Trophy) and test pilot Louis Rouland (later killed flying the SNCASE SE.100). Later on, Lemoigne was also involved with the development of the SNCAC NC.1080 shipboard fighter prototype.

I note that Lemoigne was also testing an "Aile avec dispositif hypersustentateur" or 'wing with high lift devices'.

Tixier: Possibly refer to Charles Léon Georges Tixier. If so, Georges Tixier would be killed on 04 December 1935 when his Caudron Simoun (F-ANRK) clipped the trees and crashed while trying to land at Tours.

Viratelle: Possibly relates to a project by the Lyon firm Société Anonyme des Motocyclettes et Automobiles Viratelle . Perhaps a monoplane avionette powered by one of Marcel Viratelle's motorcycle engines?

 

[hesham]

Many great thanks to you my dear apophenia,

and there is some mysteries or unknown companies ?,such as;

A.D.B. 60,A.L.E E.20,Bernard tailless,de Marsay (maybe de Marcay ?),Dujardin 1938 ?,Ecole Polytechnique
Féminine 1936,Jancel commercial 1928,Jannin 1 to 6 & Maillet-Régnier 1934.

Also for those designers,I will speak about them later;

Chamoy,claude,Minie,Richard,Richard-Penhoët,Touya & Vacher

 

[hesham]

Hi,

who heard about André Lévy A.L.2 seaplane or flying boat of 1918,which powered by one 200 hp
Hispano-Suiza engine,of course the designer is not related to Georges Lévy as I think.

All-Time Aircraft Used List | French Naval Aviation | Aeroflight

A tabular list of all the aircraft types used by French Naval Aviation since its formation.

www.aeroflight.co.uk

 

[Apophenia]

and there is some mysteries or unknown companies ...

Chamoy: Probably refers to Fernand Pierre Chamoy of Paris, a WWI pilot who designed the Monoplan Chamoy 2-seat trainer prototype of 1938 (1 x 65 hp Chamoy 5-cylinder radial, span 9.00 m). "France-Aviation Chamoy" also pops up but I'm not sure what that refers to.

The École Polytechnique Féminine 1936 could well involve the EPF instructor Maurice Berthaume again.

For "de Marsay (maybe de Marcay ?)" you are looking for the Baron Edmond de Marçay ... as in the Société Anonyme d'Etudes et de Construction Aéronautique Edmond de Marçay.
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/de-marçay-aircraft.21456/

Maillet-Régnier 1934: Refers to the aircraft designs of André Maillet (who was killed in a flying accident that year) and the engines of the Société Anonyme des Etablissement Emile Régnier. As a generic term, 'Maillet-Régnier' was use to describe the SFCA Maillet 20.

Minié would be Établissements Minié of Colombes (sometimes given as Ets V. Minié) which became Paris-based Victor Minié Aéronautique after WW2 (sometimes given as Société Minié Aéronautiques). Minié built both aero-engines of original design and aircraft.

Richard-Penhoët, of course, refers to the work of Ing. Paul Aimé Richard for the Société des ateliers et chantiers de Saint-Nazaire-Penhoët (most notably the five-engined Richard-Penhoët 2 flying boat).

Edit: for Lemoigne, there was a Pierre Lemoigne who set a world landplane altitude record in the LGL.323 in 1929 before becoming chief test-pilot for Étienne Romano in 1931.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Apophenia,

and here is all Info about Chamoy F-C 2.