Kriegsmarine - KM Naval Armament Plans/Discussion

[Tzoli]

Did the Krupp actually build 457 and 508mm cannons?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/naval-gun-projects.1672/page-6#post-654616

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

Did the Krupp actually build 457 and 508mm cannons?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/naval-gun-projects.1672/page-6#post-654616

It would not at all surprise me if they built guns for testing, they do not appear to have been seriously considered for naval application. 42cm seems to have been their limit, mostly at the behest of the Kaiser.

 

[Jemiba]

"Drehscheiben-Lafette für drei 34cm ?. ???/45
Drei durchgehende Hauptaufzüge
Drei obere Hilfsaufzüge hinter den Rohren
Drei untere Hilfsaufzüge neben den Hauptaufzügen
Feuerhöhe des 1.Mittelturms wie beim 1.Mittelturm d. 30,5cm Dreh.L. /11
" 3. " 0,5m mehr als beim 3. Mittelturm d. 30,5cm Dreh.L. /11

3 (III.).Mittelturm
Hubhöhe des Hauptaufzugs 12,85m"

=

Turntable gun mount for three 34cm ?.??/45
Three continuous main lifts
Three upper auxiliary lifts behind the guns
Three lower auxiliary lifts beside main lifts

height of fire of the first middle turret, as for the first middle turret with 30,5cm Dreh.L. /11
height of fire of the third middle turret, 0.5 m more, than for the thirdmiddle turret with 30,5cm Dreh.L. /11

third middle turret
lifting height of the main lift 12.85 m

Sorry, the parts marked with ? are still not clear to me, but I have someone, who is quite good at old fonts ...
so, to be continued

 

[Jemiba]

Seems, that we can reduce the number of question marks.

"34cm S.S.../45"

still not quite clear


I'm leaning to "30,5cm Drh. L. ?/11"

 

[alexi]

Seems, that we can reduce the number of question marks.
View attachment 720717
"34cm S.S.../45"

still not quite clear
View attachment 720718

I'm leaning to "30,5cm Drh. L. ?/11"

"34cm S.K L/45"
"30.5cm Drh L C/11" seems pretty obvious and thank you for the translations.

 

[donnyjie]

So... Is this the "480mm gun/shell" from Groener? Just by measuring?
File serial: RM 24/373

 

[alexi]

So... Is this the "480mm gun/shell" from Groener? Just by measuring?
File serial: RM 24/373

There's the possibility, the barbatte diameter of this C34/h is 12500 meters, compare to 53cm/L45 C/36 which around 12800 meters, although my barrel length measurings resulting either 43cm, 45cm and have you try to measure the breech length? my estimates usually around 2000 or less.
If this actually the 48cm gun, the caliber length could be L/48, L/47 or /45 (L/45 giving total gun length of 21735m).

 

[alexi]

And here's the 53cm/52 Gerät 36 barrel (bore length is 26040m).
View attachment RH_8_3024_K_0027.jpg
There's also the "Lange Gustav" 80cm barrel and a super high velocity 28.3cm/L76.

 

[Arjen]

@alexi I presume that's 26040 mm (millimetres)?

 

[Arjen]

This site says Gerät 36 bore length was 26.040 metres:

Germany 53 cm/52 (21") Gerät 36 - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

 

[alexi]

26.040 metres

Ah, i must have missed the dot since the page giving full 26040 m.

 

[donnyjie]

And a super-long railway gun: Length 43000, Approx. caliber: 21" → 53.3cm/81

View attachment RH_8_3024_K_0043.jpg

 

[00-PureEvil-00]

And a super-long railway gun: Length 43000, Approx. caliber: 21" → 53.3cm/81

View attachment 730983

— How big our guns must be?
— Yes.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

— How big our guns must be?
— Yes.

We're hitting Britain with this one. ️ ️ ️

 

[T. A. Gardner]

A question: Does anyone have any photos or drawings of a KM ship fitted with the 8.6 cm rocket launcher?

https://www.warships.com.cn/navweaps/WNGER_86mm_AA_Rocket.htm

I haven't seen any photos confirming this on any KM ship, although they were supposedly fitted. The fighter direction ship Togo, for example, was supposedly fitted with 4 launchers in early 1944.

 

[ptdockyard]

A question: Does anyone have any photos or drawings of a KM ship fitted with the 8.6 cm rocket launcher?

https://www.warships.com.cn/navweaps/WNGER_86mm_AA_Rocket.htm

I haven't seen any photos confirming this on any KM ship, although they were supposedly fitted. The fighter direction ship Togo, for example, was supposedly fitted with 4 launchers in early 1944.

This was very common on smaller ships in 1944-45- MFP ferries, small escorts, R-boats, Vorpostenboot, Minesweepers and speerbrechers.
Very common in the Mediterranean, Adriatic and Channel.

They are mounted aft in open spaces. Look for the tell-tale square cone in photos.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

A question: Does anyone have any photos or drawings of a KM ship fitted with the 8.6 cm rocket launcher?

https://www.warships.com.cn/navweaps/WNGER_86mm_AA_Rocket.htm

I haven't seen any photos confirming this on any KM ship, although they were supposedly fitted. The fighter direction ship Togo, for example, was supposedly fitted with 4 launchers in early 1944.

This was very common on smaller ships in 1944-45- MFP ferries, small escorts, R-boats, Vorpostenboot, Minesweepers and speerbrechers.
Very common in the Mediterranean, Adriatic and Channel.

They are mounted aft in open spaces. Look for the tell-tale square cone in photos.

Photos/drawings? No, but it is noted in literature that they were fitted in 1944-45 to various ships, even CLs.

 

[Squallog]

Hi guys, is there a way I can search within this thread?
I'm looking for plans to a 15cm SK C/28 naval turret and Drh LC/35 mount

 

[Squallog]

I'm quite new to warship schematics, so I'm not familiar with the way parts and designs are named.

How does the naming scheme for Kreigsmarine cannons of this era actually work?

 

[00-PureEvil-00]

How does the naming scheme for Kreigsmarine cannons of this era actually work?

In most cases they were designated as SK C/[xx], where:
> SK stands for Schiffkanone (naval gun)
> C stands for Construktionjahr (construction year)
> [xx] is a number denoting a year when the gun was designed. For example, the gun named SK C/30 was designed in 1930.
Some experimental guns were designated as Gerät [number], Gerät meaning "device".
There also were TbtsK C/36 (Torpedobootskanone — torpedo boat gun), Flak M42 (Flugabwehrkanone — anti-air gun, 42 is the year of design), Flak LM43 and some other oddball designations... but I'm not sure if these designations belonged to guns themselves, or to their mounts.

 

[Squallog]

In most cases they were designated as SK C/[xx], where:
> SK stands for Schiffkanone (naval gun)
> C stands for Construktionjahr (construction year)
> [xx] is a number denoting a year when the gun was designed. For example, the gun named SK C/30 was designed in 1930.
Some experimental guns were designated as Gerät [number], Gerät meaning "device".
There also were TbtsK C/36 (Torpedobootskanone — torpedo boat gun), Flak M42 (Flugabwehrkanone — anti-air gun, 42 is the year of design), Flak LM43 and some other oddball designations... but I'm not sure if these designations belonged to guns themselves, or to their mounts.

thanks for the info, what about the mount naming scheme, is that essentially the same system?

 

[lukasgrul]

Here are blueprints that I got from Russian forum.

 

[lukasgrul]

Here is second batch.

 

[YourChair]

On that note, does anyone have information on the 43 and 48 cm guns?

 

[SaskJack]

I wanted to try and post something and see if it works. Attached is a drawing on a 4.0cm Flak 28

 

[00-PureEvil-00]

On that note, does anyone have information on the 43 and 48 cm guns?

German 43cm guns? Never heard of them.
The 48cm ones from H-42/43 most likely were just suggestions — like, «our battleships must have these guns. I don't know where will you get these guns, but we need them.» The same goes for 50.8cm guns from H-44.

The only info we have about German 48cm gun performance is this speculation by Wargaming/Lesta for WoWS game (it's in Russian, so Google Translate help you) — 1730 kg shell at 810 m/s muzzle velocity.

 

[alexi]

On that note, does anyone have information on the 43 cm guns?

43cm guns only have turret plan which is RM-24/371, you can measure the barrel length with ruler. See my previous translation of RM 6/32 which only have simple text mentioned 43cm in "4x43 (doppel)", German might have plan for these guns due to certain dislike toward to triple turret 38cm which an alternative proposal for H-class.

48 cm guns?

Not even Erich Gröner can't tell us, it often speculate that H-42 would have retain 42cm or 43cm (stated by S.Breyer) guns.

 

[alexi]

40.6cm/L52 barrels, same length, different tube constructions and year of design date, RH8 3029K, including some unrelated like 15cm/L39 Flak (Gerät 60) and 42cm howitzer.

 

[alexi]

Just checking some old RM 6 documents because i might miss something.
Original:

Für das schlachtschiff H wurden 2 vergrösserte Entwürfe mit verstärkter Horizontalpanzerung gefertigt, ferner der Entwurf eines vergrösserten Typs “Bismarck“.
Für den Bau von Groß-schlachtschiffen wurdern 6 Entwürfe gefertigt: Typ 42, 43, 44 mit verschiedenen Hauptkalibern und Typ 43A, Typ 43B und 43 C mit verschiedener Turmanordnung (Drillings- und Vierlingstürmen) und der Auswirkung einer Verkleinerung.

Translation:

For the battleship H, 2 enlarged designs with reinforced horizontal armor were produced, as well as the design of an enlarged “Bismarck” type.
6 designs were produced for the construction of large battleships: Type 42, 43, 44 with different main calibers and Type 43A, Type 43B and 43 C with different turret arrangements (triple and quadruple turrets) and the effect of a reduction in size.

There's also 5 pages mentioning M-class cruiser with 17cm guns on RM/20 haven't translate it yet, but M.J.Whitley German Cruisers of WWII stated there was a proposal in 1938 to arm M-class with 17cm guns, but was dropped because the increasing weights.

 

[Eiskaffee]

Remember that? Now forget it))
Three years ago I created a thread to collect information about these guns. Created and quickly forgot about it.
Now I have accidentally found it again, and... there was this. A picture from some book confirming that these mysterious Krupp guns were, indeed, 45 and 50 cm in caliber. At least, shell weights and velocities in the book coincide with those stated in the document.

Never forget your old threads, guys. You never know what treasures you can found there

Hi PureEvil,

This photo is from a shoot I did a long time ago. Now, I will post the full text of these paragraphs.

Translation:
"However, as far as the gun calibers on which those study designs were based were concerned, there was still a desire for calibers above 40.6 cm . The Krupp company , the only manufacturer of the heaviest guns in Germany , for example, had such guns as of October 1942, namely 45 and 50 cm in addition to 42 cm (which has already been discussed). And already in 1934, Krupp had designed one twin turret 45 cm L/50 , 45 cm L/52.5 and two 45 cm L/52 . The 50.8 cm SK attributed to the H 43 and H 44 projects, however, do not appear in the Krupp documentation; this is possibly due to a conversion error, based on the assumption that 50.8 cm correspond exactly to 20 English inches and the metric measurement was not taken into account."

Breyer mentions the 42cm SK C/34g, weighing 157,26t and firing a 1080kg projectile. Based on his colleague Werner Stehr's notes on the H-class, he guessed (!) that the "SK C/34g" referred to the 42cm gun that was bored in early 1940 from a German 40,6cm gun (of a different design from the SK C/34!) that the Soviet Union had ordered in the summer of 1939. Garzke's book claims that the 42cm came from the borehole of the 40,6cm SK C/34. His description partially matches Stehr's notes - at least it is true that no 40,6cm SK C/34 was bored.

 

[Eiskaffee]

When translating RM 6/32 Development of Battleship "H" and "J" (Thread page 22 for those who curious), there are 4 pages above it, seems describe the main gun choices for battleship "H" and "J". Unfortunately they're all hand writing! so i can't read it but you can see some texts of the main guns for the class, 35cm, 38cm, 40.6cm, the rebored 42cm and according to page 115 these documents dated in 13.01.1937.
On Page 114 you'll see "5-38cm" text, possibly the 5x2 arrangement (but i do consider 2x3/3x2 layout are possible too).
"H" were also originally to be third sister ships of Bismarck-class (F and G), a modified design based on preliminary Bismarck and armed with 8x35cm guns at 35000 tons.

Hi Alexi,

I am using my free time to translate these crude Kurrent handwritings. They are mainly about Raeder's concerns on January 13, 1937 about the differences in work hours caused by the different gun configurations from the "Schlachtschiff F", such as whether the research progress on the Krupp side would affect the launch time.
For example, here is the first paragraph:
"Wenn H, J 8x38cm oder 8x35cm Schlachtschiffe bekommen, wann können sie auf Stapel gelegt werden oder wann fertig sie/unter Besichtigungen von Krupp rund Challenge？"

This inquiry is necessary in view of the completely different machine. One detail that caught my attention is that Raeder wrote here "8x40,6cm oder 42cm (gleiche Lafetten)", that is, "same mounts". By examining RM24/362, 363, 364, 366 (34f, i.e. 40,6cm) and 371 (34g, described by Breyer as 42cm), it can be seen that the 366, which was drawn on the same day as the 371, was smaller in size, but the other 34f, drawn five months later, had many consistent and similar parameters to the 34g, which eventually developed into the turret of the H-39 (see Panzerabwicklungen related to "H"). Therefore, I think it can be confirmed that the caliber of the SK C/34g is as stated by Breyer.

Based on the current documents, we can determine:
C/34a (20,3cm)
C/34b (?, possibly 28cm)
C/34c (?, possibly 33cm, from Panzerschiff F 1934 spring plan)
C/34d (35,5cm, there is a relevant Psgr. file in the RH8 directory)
C/34e (38cm)
C/34f (40,6cm)
C/34g (42cm)
C/34h (possibly 45cm, based on Breyer's description of Krupp's 45cm turret drawn in 1934, and the C/42h data in 7763/42)
C/34i (if it exists, it may be 50cm).

I hope my research can help you.

 

[alexi]

Can you provide the exact document number? According to your description, these designs do not seem to belong to any "official design history" - neither the research of D.Nottelmann or A.Grießmer, nor the Kurrent font files that have been digitized. When the discussion about rises to 16,000 tons displacement, the turret used in the design is no longer an old design (L/40, although L/45 was still called Drh.L. C/01 at the time). Judging from the more "Italian" secondary armament of P.IX, it is possible that it was a study directed by Wilhelm II.

Thank you for your valuable translation works @Eiskaffee, the document in the quote is RM 3/348, it start from page 114 to 134 (in the document pages), most of them are based on my guessing, i don't speak German and have to rely on deepL for the works, i seen Dirk Nottleman works on JSTOR but haven't fully read it yet, he provided a lot of unknown preliminary battleship designs which most haven't digitalize yet on bunderachiv.

C/34c (?, possibly 33cm, from Panzerschiff F 1934 spring plan)

In RH8 document, the 33cm shell datas are designated as C33/c (shells are designed in 1937 to 38), am not sure if they're related to preliminary panzerschiff "D" and Bismarck 33cm plans.

C/34d

There's two turrets with C/34d designation on RM/24 which are quite confusing, one turret suggest this is early version of 40.6cm (based on barbatte diameter) and one is 38cm from panzerschiff "D" and "E" early 38cm re-armament on the hull (1934), i might have to look it back just in case.

I am using my free time to translate these crude Kurrent handwritings. They are mainly about Raeder's concerns on January 13, 1937 about the differences in work hours caused by the different gun configurations from the "Schlachtschiff F", such as whether the research progress on the Krupp side would affect the launch time.

Please continue translating the rest when you have the time sir, am very appreciate of your hard works.

 

[alexi]

C/34g (42cm)

Am not too sure if this the rebored 42cm, because if you measure the barrel lenth entirely, it roughly close to 43cm gun and the barbatte diameter are larger than 40.6cm C/34f (40.6cm have 10.5m versus 11.5m on /34g), G&D stated that the rebored 42cm guns wouldn't have much affect on turret diameters other than modified shell handling and reinforced structures.

 

[00-PureEvil-00]

Doppelflak L/54 now in World of Lesta's Warships (aka Mir Korablei).





The mount is most likely based on Entwurf IV:


By the way, does anyone know the history behind this gun? If there is any besides the blueprints, of course.

Edit: Blueprint should now be there. How I could screw up its upload on first time would be riddle for ages.

 

[YourChair]

Does anyone have pen tables for the 150/60 SK C/25 and the 203/60 SK C/34?


EDIT: never mind, I've found the official pen curves from "Unterlagen und Richtlinien zur Bestimmung der Hauptkampfentfernung und der Geschoßwahl". This one is against cemented armor -- the lighter curve is where the projectile remains intact, and the darker is when the projectile breaks up but still mostly penetrates.

 

[H40]

Does anyone have pen tables for the 150/60 SK C/25 and the 203/60 SK C/34?


EDIT: never mind, I've found the official pen curves from "Unterlagen und Richtlinien zur Bestimmung der Hauptkampfentfernung und der Geschoßwahl". This one is against cemented armor -- the lighter curve is where the projectile remains intact, and the darker is when the projectile breaks up but still mostly penetrates.
View attachment 742889

Maybe you can calculate it with empirical formula from Krupp.

 

[Wurger]

I realized that I had a plan for a variant of the Handelzerstorer. A photograph of an original plan, though I have no idea where it came from and I have seemed to have saved in back in 2020.
I also have a list of 1944-45 (late war) 2cm - 4cm prototype guns and mounts. I occasionally reference it from memory (especially in regard to the honestly quite hilarious 3.7cm Flak 43 Flakvierling) though I have just rediscovered the screenshots along with the Handelzerstorer plan in a search though the old photos in my phone. Unfortunately, there was nothing Dutch-related.
I will post those when I am on dry land again. Maybe a week or two?

especially in regard to the honestly quite hilarious 3.7cm Flak 43 Flakvierling

Really hope to see that list! Can you please develop on the "quite hilarious 3,7cm Flak 43 Flakvierling"?

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

No. It would be a good idea.

Even though this thread was created with the Kriegsmarine in mind, I do not have any problem with WWI or interwar German ships; in fact there is an entire section in the drive for WWI ships. Would not be opposed to another thread, but have no problems with them here either.

Really hope to see that list! Can you please develop on the "quite hilarious 3,7cm Flak 43 Flakvierling"?

As memory serves, it was an attempt to mount four 3.7cm Flak 43 guns onto a modified 2cm Vierling chassis, possibly as a means to put guns on mounts very late in the war. If I recall correctly, the concept either was not executed or flopped very badly, as vibrations would make the guns highly inaccurate (a problem suffered to a lesser degree by 3cm MK 103 guns on the same 2cm chassis). More to follow when I get home.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I try to remain consistent where I can.
As promised last week on Tuesday, here are the images of the prototype mounts at the end of the war as well as accurate translations from CGPT.

Translation:
48) 3 cm Turntable Twin Mount M 44 U:

WKWCurrently, 40 units per month are being manufactured for 2 cm storage, as the intended MK 303 weapon is not yet available in the necessary quantities in operational form. The recoil absorption is operationally adequate. Tests with high rates of fire have shown that this can lead to failures. It is being considered to install a mechanical recoil system instead of the hydraulic one. Testing and measurements are continuing in the lab with new MK 303 weapons.

---

49) 3 cm Pedestal Mount M 44 S:

WKWTwo prototype units have been completed, with two more expected in February and two more in March. The presentation to OKM representatives revealed no fundamental objections. Difficulties remain in sourcing the large spherical bearings, which are also required for the pump to cock the weapon.

---

50) 3.7 cm Flak 43 M adapted for shipboard use:

WKWThe reinforcement of the pedestal mounting has been structurally completed. The strength increase brings about 80%. The sighting arm for the mounting of the mechanical ring sight and two special mounts of type D.Z.C.2 still need to be developed.

---

51) Device 58 in U-Boat Mounting:

WKWThe design of a twin mount was presented to OKM representatives on October 18, 1944. Further work on this mount has been halted until a decision is made on the associated installation question. The project for this device remains suspended in the event of changed requirements, especially if land-based use takes precedence over underwater use.

---

52) 3 cm Twin Mount:

WKWThe design of the mount has been postponed several times in favor of other devices. Preliminary construction work began at the beginning of February.

---

53) 3.7 cm Flak Twin 43 adapted for shipboard use:

WKWThe design work has been commissioned to Dietrich & Koch, Reichenberg, Hoferichter. The work is not yet started due to labor issues.





Translation:
36) 3 cm Twin Mount:

WKWThe design work has not yet started. Its commencement depends on the allocation of labor.

---

37) 3.7 cm Flak Twin 43 adapted for shipboard use:

WKWAccording to information from OKM, work on this device has been discontinued.

---

38) 2 cm Flak Quadruple M 38/43 F:

WKWTrials will be conducted at the Dippensee airfield with the first prototype. A second prototype is to be produced, with additional parts being supplied by Telefunken. A valid set of drawings will be prepared during the development of the second prototype.

---

39) 3.7 cm Flak 44 in 3.7 cm Flak Mount M 45:

WKWThe improvements resulting from the presentation on February 1, 1945, have been implemented and completed at Gustloff factories in Suhl. A second trial unit will be delivered by Gustloff by early March.

---

40) 8.6 cm RAg 9 M 44:

WKB, WKMThe proposal was approved on February 24, 1945, in the presence of OKM representatives. The separate launch for individual, group, and full salvos was deemed satisfactory, as well as the further improvement of certain electrical components. The order has been placed for 4 units with automatic ignition (electro-mechanical).

---

41) 8.8 cm KM 41 in 8.8 cm Flak LM 41:

WKB, WKMAbout 20 units are ready for serial production at Mittelstahl, currently stored in Unterlüss, awaiting the start of mass production. These units cannot yet be provided for frontline use due to missing certain parts in the aiming system.





Translation:
62) Oscillating Parts 10.5 cm KM 44 in Temporary Firing Mount:

WKB, WKMThe alignment mount and the oscillating parts will be completed in Düsseldorf by the end of February. The barrel will initially be inserted without rifling. Once two rifled barrels are completed in Tegel, one rifled barrel will be inserted.

---

63) 10.5 cm KM 44 in Twin Mount L. M 44:

WKB, WKE, WKMThe production of a three-axis test device is canceled. Two two-axis test devices are to be produced: one by the subcontractor Mittelstahl and the other in area M. The delivery of drawings from area M must be specified after relocation.





Translation:
81) 3.7 cm Flak Quadruple 44:

WKWBy using the modified 3.7 cm Flak 43 (ejection of casings and frames downward), it is possible to build a favorably designed quadruple mount. The development work has begun.

---

And here is the photographed Handelzerstorer "IIa" plan.

Based on the data in the bottom right of this image, this is a slightly different version of KIG BNr. 2472/41 GKds. v. 2. 10. 41, as it is known in Breyer's book. The primary difference is the use of 28cm triples in lieu of 38cm twins, but in most other respects the two designs are the same. This one has about 10,000 more shp/WPS but the weight and speed remain the same.

 

[Wurger]

I try to remain consistent where I can.
As promised last week on Tuesday, here are the images of the prototype mounts at the end of the war as well as accurate translations from CGPT.
View attachment 745638
Translation:
48) 3 cm Turntable Twin Mount M 44 U:

WKWCurrently, 40 units per month are being manufactured for 2 cm storage, as the intended MK 303 weapon is not yet available in the necessary quantities in operational form. The recoil absorption is operationally adequate. Tests with high rates of fire have shown that this can lead to failures. It is being considered to install a mechanical recoil system instead of the hydraulic one. Testing and measurements are continuing in the lab with new MK 303 weapons.

---

49) 3 cm Pedestal Mount M 44 S:

WKWTwo prototype units have been completed, with two more expected in February and two more in March. The presentation to OKM representatives revealed no fundamental objections. Difficulties remain in sourcing the large spherical bearings, which are also required for the pump to cock the weapon.

---

50) 3.7 cm Flak 43 M adapted for shipboard use:

WKWThe reinforcement of the pedestal mounting has been structurally completed. The strength increase brings about 80%. The sighting arm for the mounting of the mechanical ring sight and two special mounts of type D.Z.C.2 still need to be developed.

---

51) Device 58 in U-Boat Mounting:

WKWThe design of a twin mount was presented to OKM representatives on October 18, 1944. Further work on this mount has been halted until a decision is made on the associated installation question. The project for this device remains suspended in the event of changed requirements, especially if land-based use takes precedence over underwater use.

---

52) 3 cm Twin Mount:

WKWThe design of the mount has been postponed several times in favor of other devices. Preliminary construction work began at the beginning of February.

---

53) 3.7 cm Flak Twin 43 adapted for shipboard use:

WKWThe design work has been commissioned to Dietrich & Koch, Reichenberg, Hoferichter. The work is not yet started due to labor issues.




View attachment 745639
Translation:
36) 3 cm Twin Mount:

WKWThe design work has not yet started. Its commencement depends on the allocation of labor.

---

37) 3.7 cm Flak Twin 43 adapted for shipboard use:

WKWAccording to information from OKM, work on this device has been discontinued.

---

38) 2 cm Flak Quadruple M 38/43 F:

WKWTrials will be conducted at the Dippensee airfield with the first prototype. A second prototype is to be produced, with additional parts being supplied by Telefunken. A valid set of drawings will be prepared during the development of the second prototype.

---

39) 3.7 cm Flak 44 in 3.7 cm Flak Mount M 45:

WKWThe improvements resulting from the presentation on February 1, 1945, have been implemented and completed at Gustloff factories in Suhl. A second trial unit will be delivered by Gustloff by early March.

---

40) 8.6 cm RAg 9 M 44:

WKB, WKMThe proposal was approved on February 24, 1945, in the presence of OKM representatives. The separate launch for individual, group, and full salvos was deemed satisfactory, as well as the further improvement of certain electrical components. The order has been placed for 4 units with automatic ignition (electro-mechanical).

---

41) 8.8 cm KM 41 in 8.8 cm Flak LM 41:

WKB, WKMAbout 20 units are ready for serial production at Mittelstahl, currently stored in Unterlüss, awaiting the start of mass production. These units cannot yet be provided for frontline use due to missing certain parts in the aiming system.




View attachment 745640
Translation:
62) Oscillating Parts 10.5 cm KM 44 in Temporary Firing Mount:

WKB, WKMThe alignment mount and the oscillating parts will be completed in Düsseldorf by the end of February. The barrel will initially be inserted without rifling. Once two rifled barrels are completed in Tegel, one rifled barrel will be inserted.

---

63) 10.5 cm KM 44 in Twin Mount L. M 44:

WKB, WKE, WKMThe production of a three-axis test device is canceled. Two two-axis test devices are to be produced: one by the subcontractor Mittelstahl and the other in area M. The delivery of drawings from area M must be specified after relocation.




View attachment 745641
Translation:
81) 3.7 cm Flak Quadruple 44:

WKWBy using the modified 3.7 cm Flak 43 (ejection of casings and frames downward), it is possible to build a favorably designed quadruple mount. The development work has begun.

---

And here is the photographed Handelzerstorer "IIa" plan.
View attachment 745642
Based on the data in the bottom right of this image, this is a slightly different version of KIG BNr. 2472/41 GKds. v. 2. 10. 41, as it is known in Breyer's book. The primary difference is the use of 28cm triples in lieu of 38cm twins, but in most other respects the two designs are the same. This one has about 10,000 more shp/WPS but the weight and speed remain the same.

Dear Sarcasticat, thanks for sharing the list. I happen to have this list too, published in Waffen Revue Nr.113. In page 86 there is also an entry on the 3,7 cm Flak Vierling 44, but nothing on severe vibrations or any quite hilarious quadruple mount. Do you have more informations on it?