KAI KF-21 Boramae (KFX Korean Indigenous Fighter program)

stealthflanker said:
helmutkohl said:
www.munhwa.com

9일 KF-X 시제1호기 출고식…내년 5월 비행테스트 성공이 열쇠

방한 인니 국방장관 KF-X 분담금 10% 축소, 50억 달러 차관, 현지 생산라인 설비 한국 부담 요구설 무성 F-1..
www.munhwa.com

Indonesia invited to attend the roll out ceremony
Indonesia requested their share of KFX be reduced by 10%, 5 billion won in loans (to be used in other sectors such as agriculture), cooperation on a joint submarine project, and a long range air to ground missile implemented

it would be interesting when Indonesia gets both those joint Korean subs and Japanese frigates. Japanese and Korean weapons side by side :eek: :cool:

also on that site they mentioned fears of the new F-15EX competing with KFX for RoKAF
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The Japanese frigate wise.. might have bit of challenge particularly because there already other players in our warship tenders, namely Damen, Babcock and Fincantierri. I saw "8 frigates for potential purchase" but... doesnt seem to be any real move to that area. These contenders are trying to advance itself. the Damen and Babcock seems to have deeper footprint in our bureaucracy, while Fincantierri putting its leverage on Leonardo.

---------------

Anyway.. basically 2 Days for rollouts.
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I wonder how they compare price wise. I can't imagine the Japanese offer would be cheap.
although its a really nice design.
 
helmutkohl said:
Grey Havoc said:
Depends on what is defined as 'cheap' in the current circumstances, I would suppose.
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totally unrelated but what is the ship in your avatar?
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IIR that's one of the trimaran warship concepts the brits were throwing around in the buildup to T45. Ultimately the only thing that came out of that was Triton, a tech demonstrator.
 
One of the concepts for the Royal Navy's Future Surface Combatant ship program from the late 1990s/early 2000s, in this case a nuclear powered trimaran hulled destroyer.

EDIT: You beat me to it!

EDIT2: From the same program, a Frigate design;
1617793289266.png

Regarding the FSC: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-surface-combatant-fsc-until-late-2004.10965/

Thought we had a thread on the Triton as well, but I can't find hide nor hair of it at the moment.
 
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helmutkohl said:
www.munhwa.com

9일 KF-X 시제1호기 출고식…내년 5월 비행테스트 성공이 열쇠

방한 인니 국방장관 KF-X 분담금 10% 축소, 50억 달러 차관, 현지 생산라인 설비 한국 부담 요구설 무성 F-1..
www.munhwa.com

Indonesia invited to attend the roll out ceremony
Indonesia requested their share of KFX be reduced by 10%, 5 billion won in loans (to be used in other sectors such as agriculture), cooperation on a joint submarine project, and a long range air to ground missile implemented

it would be interesting when Indonesia gets both those joint Korean subs and Japanese frigates. Japanese and Korean weapons side by side :eek: :cool:

also on that site they mentioned fears of the new F-15EX competing with KFX for RoKAF
Click to expand...
No, not 5 billion Won, 5 billion dollars are what they are asking. They've also complained about the fact that Indonesia hasn't been mentioned during the prototype assembly ceremony, while not paying their share of contribution. I really get to question the Indonesian politicians' and clerks' sense of logic some times.

Due to the fact that the ROKAF is already operating the F-15K, any F-15 is defined as high-end fighter by the JSOP, which is basically legal basis of any fighter acquisition of ROKAF. KF-X is the medium-end fighter and they can't interfere with each other in terms of requirements.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
No, not 5 billion Won, 5 billion dollars are what they are asking. They've also complained about the fact that Indonesia hasn't been mentioned during the prototype assembly ceremony, while not paying their share of contribution. I really get to question the Indonesian politicians' and clerks' sense of logic some times.
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Our politicians are clueless TBH. They or most only cares about Elections and stuff. Which kind of serious as that would means there are no real long term strategy in acquisitions. Only "5 Years intervals" policy.

Those small things like prototype where our names are not mentioned are TBH stirred up by our own netizens.


Like for my experience following this project since 2011. Our netizens's reaction are mostly silent.. as technical things are not really our thing. Discussions however. Existed mainly in large Indonesian forum such as Kaskus.co.id. Our conclusion (as i were also a member of that forum) Was that Basically we are not really ready for such undertaking Yet.. our Government at that time (President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono) Was visionary and desire a great leap forward.

It was a fine goal.. realization is rather difficult unfortunately especially in terms of Tech transfer. There is misconception ongoing in Indonesian netizenst that TOT means one would be actually taught from plain Zero on how to make stuff. Well that could be correct but in our own constitution there are "vagueness" on what should constitute TOT. That's one point.

The other point is that we havent really start invest in anything for more tech transfer... maybe lets say a radar.. this needs considerable investment which we do not really make O-o Let alone other things like materials etc... this requires new industrial base and this industrial base needs to have large commercial line so that it doesnt die when production ended.

Should industrial base exist.. then we could perhaps ask for more with leverage on lessening the burden of Korean Industry (e.g Coproduction). But that doesnt happen.

Our netizens did not or skip the above mentioned part and goes up stirring things. Which kind of unfortunate.
 
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Prabowo Subianto, the Minister of Defense of Indonesia, leaked KF-X's official name.
It's KF-21.

webcache.googleusercontent.com

[속보] 한국형 전투기 명칭은 ‘KF-21 보라매’

시제기 출고식 초읽기에 들어간 한국형전투기(KF-X)의 고유명칭과 통상명칭이 ‘KF-21 보라매’로 확정된 것으로 알려졌다. 청와대는 8일 문재인 대통령이 KF-X 출고식 참석을 위해 방한중인 프라보워 수비안토 인도네시아 국방부 장관을 접견한 것과 관련해 “프라보워 장관은 청와대 예방 전 강은호 방위사업청장에게는 자신의 이번 ‘한국형 전투기 KF-21 보라매 시제1호기 출고식’ 참석이 ‘좋은 메시지’(Go...
webcache.googleusercontent.com
 
^ supposed to be right now, but they're doing all these musical stuff, presentations and other fanfare.

here's a snap shot of the Korean president with an Indonesia government member, not sure who
Screen Shot 2021-04-09 at 14.30.36.png
 
how often do we see an unveiling of a new combat aircraft? 3 or 4 times per decade?

Screen Shot 2021-04-09 at 14.59.16.png


a few countries flags were flashed over it, i saw Turkey, Indonesia, US, Peru, Ghana, a few others
potential export?
Screen Shot 2021-04-09 at 14.57.55.png


Screen Shot 2021-04-09 at 14.54.32.png
 
This camera work is awful. Barely any good angles or zoom-ins of the aircraft.
 
a better side pic

Eygs_fMXAAEPzju

Eygs-2-WgAAhDmu
 
Indonesia, Iraq, Philippines & Thailand operate the KAI T-50. I'd say US, UK, Germany are there as subcontractor nations.
 
1. Iraq - T-50
2. Turkey - KT-1
3. Philippines - T-50
4. Senegal - KT-1
5. Colombia - considering FA-50
6. Malaysia - seriously interested in T-50/FA-50
7. Qatar
8. Peru - KT-1, considering FA-50
9. Germany - Subcontractor
10. Thailand - T-50
11. Indonesia - Partner, Subcontractor
12. US - Many subcontractors
13. UK - Subcontractors
 
I wonder how many of those countries would actually end up as customers

my guess



1. Iraq - maybe
2. Turkey - no, not unless TFX fails big time
3. Philippines - maybe
4. Senegal - no, probably doesnt need any combat aircraft beyond trainers and light attack
5. Colombia - maybe
6. Malaysia - maybe
7. Qatar - no. already did a big upgrade of their AF
8. Peru - maybe but unlikely
9. Germany - no
10. Thailand - likely
11. Indonesia - highly likely
12. US - no.
13. UK - No
 
With a maximum payload of 7,700 kilograms, the new warplane will have 10 pods for air-to-air missiles and other weapons, capable of flying at 2,200 kph with a flying range of 2,900 km.

The first flight test is scheduled for 2022, with the entire development set to be completed by 2026.

m-en.yna.co.kr

S. Korea unveils prototype of first homegrown fighter aircraft | Yonhap News Agency

By Choi Soo-hyang SEOUL, April 9 (Yonhap) -- South Korea on Friday unveiled a prototype ...
m-en.yna.co.kr m-en.yna.co.kr
 
Not a bad looking design at all (of course if China had revealed this we'd never hear the end of F-35 copying), though I think it looks more aesthetically pleasing than the F-35.

Rolling out a 5th Gen fighter brings with it a lot of kudos, not many nations have managed it and there is no question that having something real and tangible is better than a fibreglass model or flashy CGI images.
I would be surprised if the KF-21 doesn't notch up a few sales. Lets hope the trials and development programme goes well.
 
So from the KAI Investor days presentation. The flight test would be conducted for 3 years, then serial production at 2025. Ideally.

This slide also contains interesting thing that the Block-II development which have the internal bay, begin at 2026. This dispels the prevalent myth in our netizens at least that Korea will use the Block II Directly. As hillarious as it is there are people believe in it.

The slide clearly depicts that the mass production of block I is well within the same time with development of the Block II.

Original presentation is here :

쉘든의 밀리터리 : 네이버 블로그

blog.naver.com blog.naver.com
 

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Given that they've unveiled it already and that at least superficially it looks finished - what are the chances we will see the first flight this year? As opposed to 2022, as various pundits predicted previously?
 
Hood said:
Not a bad looking design at all (of course if China had revealed this we'd never hear the end of F-35 copying), though I think it looks more aesthetically pleasing than the F-35.

Rolling out a 5th Gen fighter brings with it a lot of kudos, not many nations have managed it and there is no question that having something real and tangible is better than a fibreglass model or flashy CGI images.
I would be surprised if the KF-21 doesn't notch up a few sales. Lets hope the trials and development programme goes well.
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to be fair, Lockheed had a significant role in the KF-21, as did with the FA-50, F-2, and ching-kuo, which is why no one really accuses them of copying.

in any case what I like about today is how it brings all of us together, excited and talking about this unveiling.
haven't really felt this in a long time. I think the last time was the Pak-fa unveil over 10 years ago!!

what's next? the Chinese stealth bomber unveil? the Japanese F-3?
 
totoro said:
Given that they've unveiled it already and that at least superficially it looks finished - what are the chances we will see the first flight this year? As opposed to 2022, as various pundits predicted previously?
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Its first flight will start on May 2022 and end on Feburary 2026.
2100 sorties are planned during the period.
 
As they are unlikely to ever get the F-35 wouldn’t a country like Iraq be at the top of the list for purchasing the KF-21?
 
Flyaway said:
As they are unlikely to ever get the F-35 wouldn’t a country like Iraq be at the top of the list for purchasing the KF-21?
Click to expand...
i think could be. after all the Iraq flag was shown in example 1 above. they also operate the FA-50. on that note if theres a KT-1 and a KF-21, why didnt they name the Golden Eagle KF-50
 
Sleek beautiful stealth jet, really. A pretty pleasing cross between F-22 and F-35, with Superbug engines. Kind of smooth blend of the three major US combat aircraft, post Cold-War and into the stealth era.

I'm not sure Lockheed would allow it to compete with F-35 for export sales - alternatively, not sure South Korea would dare to antagonize the US state department by trying to "rob" F-35 sales. There was no such issues with South Korea aforementioned aircraft - KT-1 and T-50 are mostly trainers and Uncle Sam doesn't really care about them, it is a "minor market".
But a full-blown F-35 competitor ? with two engines and less... compromises ?

South Korea is really in an interesting situation there. An interesting mix of Japan and China - US ally like the former but with a more competitive product (hint: T-2 vs Jaguar; F-16 vs F-2; F-3 vs F-35... Japan chances of a breakthrough on the combat aircraft market were and still are slim, to say the least)

Can Lockheed and the USA "tolerate" KF-21 exports orders ? imagine if that starts snowballing out of control, I mean, eating into the F-35 well laid plans of global domination ?

I'm thinking about the Viggen (US engine) and Lavi (US engine too) that paid a high price to that. Could the F414 be used to "strangle" the KF-21 ?
 
I dont see KF-21 as a direct competitor to the F-35. They do not have the same range of performances. F-35 is a VLO with for long unmatched capabilities to operate inside denied airspace. The KF-21 has a more modest approach where LO techniques are enhanced but not predominant.
It's an intermediate step b/w F-16 and F-35 and in that sense is more a serious competitor to the former and all equivalent 4th Gen platforms (Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, J-10, J-7, land base SH, Su-30...).

But effectively at first sight, someone can misinterpret that KF-21 would compete against F-35s when they are probably not on the same market.

Then there is the price tag and cost of sustainement. We will see what comes but regarding sustainability, it's a good sign that KAI plans for some serious investment.

I wonder how Gen Brown will see the KF-21 in his new perspective.
 

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