Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) UK-Japan-Italy

That is a different and weird looking missile Forest Green, it looks strange having the four ramjet nozzles. Let's just say that I have never seen a missile like that before, is there any info on it?
 
Forest Green said:
What they need is a dual-capability AAM/ARM, like this earlier idea:

Arminger:
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As pointed out, this is Armiger, an ARM, not an AAM/ARM. It explicitly says Air to Ground on the board behind it in both English and German.

There has been discussion of an ARM or a dual role Meteor at various points, but it wasn't Armiger.

See https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/snub-of-mbda-meteor-bvraam.23865/post-387168 for more recent discussions.
 
RVV-AE-PD-1.jpg

It looks like the R-77M-PD, a ramjet powered missile, the cancelled Soviet counterpart to the Meteor. It used 4 throttleable intake nozzles to manuever. The mass flow rate of air is almost as much as what comes out of the engine nozzles, I guess differentially throttling the intakes to steer allows for very poweful manuevering.
 

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FighterJock said:
So we are planning on designing a Meteor Mk.2 with an improved dual mode seeker, that will prove to be a deadly combination in air combat. Would it have feature longer range than the baseline Meteor?
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There has been talk of Meteor improvements in the future (remember its still a very new system at the top of its game, so not in desperate need of a refresh by any stretch) and clearly an AESA seeker would be highest on the list. MBDA have also routinely showed Dual Mode concepts in recent years so its not much of a stretch for that to happen, particularly with proliferation of LO platforms. Ultimately a Meteor mk.2 will have to happen at some point to keep it competitive with other developments, its unfortunate that JNAAM hasn't gone ahead as it will have happened a lot earlier than any purely European development as it leveraged the existing seeker from AAM-4.

Can't imagine there would be any need to try and enhance the baseline kinematics though...they're already exceptional, and I suspect we're at the point where large investment would only produce marginal improvements in the propulsion system.
 
kqcke for you said:
Yeah and it is an Meteor development from Diehl at the beginning of the 2000s for an ARM missile. Often pops in some threads here If i remember it right.
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Armiger was nothing to do with Meteor whatsoever, completely different concept and manufacturers.

DWG said:
There has been discussion of an ARM or a dual role Meteor at various points, but it wasn't Armiger.
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MBDA and RAF have both talked about Meteor having an anti radiation capability in the past...but....it was never clear if they were talking about standard Meteor or the proposed JNAAM with AESA, I suspect the latter. It was also clear that such a capability would need software development and trials for it to actually work. So not operational at present. I suspect it may need some development and would only arrive with a future version of Meteor with AESA antenna. Hopefully the recent Ukraine war has reminded everyone of how useful ARM can be....RAF appear to favour Spear/Spear-EW as the SEAD/DEAD weapon of the future, but a higher speed fast reaction missile wouldn't be amiss, particularly if it could leverage other investment and be an cheaper adaptation of an existing munition, or more likely as a secondary mission enabled by software development.

Back to GCAP though....its interesting how little talk there has been since the arrival of GCAP from Tempest et al on the weaponry that will arm it....MBDA were showing some concepts alongside the Tempest mockup but seem to have shied away from that recently, with the SCAF consortium being far more open. Particularly on the remote carrier front.

From the UK's point of view if GCAP arrives c2035 its clear what some munitions will be....

WVR - Asraam, probably in a Block VII version by then as Block VI entered service in 2022
BVR - Meteor, you'd have to assume a Mk.2 will have arrived by then
Spear variants - Spear, Spear-EW are clearly on the cards but SpearGlide and MRUSW (a 'SpearSimple') may be as well..
FCASW - Hopefully by 2035 both versions...

But apart from that its a little unclear...

- Will we still be using Paveway IV as the standard guided bomb then? Surely a glide kit version will be needed, which would be a comparatively easy development (and has been proposed in the past).
- What disposable Remote Carrier will be used? Will GCAP and SCAF partners do the sensible thing and choose a standard MBDA model and jointly develop RC100, RC200 or RCM2?
- Will any US weapons be integrated? Italy uses JDAM and US Paveway, plus AIM-9X? UK and Japan have less/no interest in this due to ITAR.
- The Italian's also use IRIS-T, which could be replaced by FCAAM by then...or will they buy the UK or Japanese WVR for simplicity/cost?
- Japanese will use their own BVR, WVR missiles and presumably have their own cruise missile/AShM missiles, but how much room is there for collaboration on weapons, will they all go their own way?
- The UK is looking for air launched hypersonics, but is GCAP the best launch platform?
- Will any of the MBDA concepts from Tempest progress? (Dual mode increased calibre WVR, smaller twin rail launched WVR, micromissiles for missile defence and low collateral A2G).
- Will we bother with an internal gun? UK has shown little interest in recent years, only retaining Typhoon's as it was cheaper to retain than ditch, and is not purchasing gun pods for F-35B. Do Italy and Japan have strong views either way?
 

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