France-Germany-Spain Future Combat Air System (FCAS / SCAF / FSAC)

Don't worry.. Thks RR and the Queen...
::) "world class references on the EJ200 LPC & HPC" doesn't mean they are going to USE these same parts for the new engine to be build.
It mean they are going to use the experience gained from all the time building EJ200 parts to build NEW parts of their own for a NEW engine.

And if that thing ever fly one day, you'll have a good way reassuring yourself it's flying due to UK engineering expertise. So all good :)
 
Harrier said:
And it all happened a long, long time ago...
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Yes that is rather the main problem with all of this. The designers retired back in the 80s and 90s and switching things back on is really hard. At least there are some things on the civil side that can be pulled across e..g. turbomachinery, but there are still plenty of military specific technologies needed to make it work e.g. reheat, nozzles, signature control...
 
Plenum chamber burning!

Seriously, the big UK problem was turning off the integrated research programme that produced XG40, EJ200, RTM322, ACME etc. It was a good plan that seemed to work, but it needed continuity and clear applications.
 
red admiral said:
Trident said:
I don't see how they could possibly match MTU's world-class references on the EJ200 LPC & HPC.
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But MTU pretty much just builds those parts to print, they were designed by RR.
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That's a gross oversimplification - while RR provided the template for the overall engine architecture with XG40 in addition to their parts contribution, significant proprietary technology went into MTU's share (both design & manufacturing).

Even if we accept the claim for argument's sake, subsequent compressor work on other engine projects shows that the lessons and know-how would have been thoroughly assimilated, rather than merely reproducing faithfully a design they did not fully understand. MTU went on to salvage the PW6000 with a 6-stage HPC of their own design that replaced the failed 5-stage original by P&W (that the programme was a commercial failure nonetheless was down to other factors - the entire A318 wasn't exactly a blockbuster and the delay introduced by P&W's inability to shape up their HPC further caused customers to jump ship and choose CFM). Why's that so noteworthy? The PW6000 HPC has one of the highest (quite possibly THE highest outright, in fact) average stage pressure ratios of any engine in commercial operation today. It's a very advanced piece of engineering.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pw-moves-step-closer-to-pw6000-compressor-choice--119737/

http://tealgroup.com/images/TGCTOC/sample-wpsba2.pdf
 
So, what kind of thrust class or any improvement we can likely expect here in engine department ?

For the record. Typical fighter engine generates about 20-43000 Lbf of thrust in reheat with about third to half of that in full-mil power. fuel usage or SFC is usually in 0.6-0.8 range in full mil spec depending on altitude and speed. with 1-2 in afterburner.
 
Just a nice image of it...

2q3nfj8.jpg
 
Huge benefits of scale which historically, have been completely offset by a lack of cohesion in development. Nice idea but it needs everyone to leave their ego at the door.
 
Huge benefits of scale which historically, have been completely offset by a lack of cohesion in development.

Just as well that would never happen in the US of A.
 
Yeah at least it's different requirements from different countries rather than different requirements from the same country just a few years later.
 
D9AnQfJXoAADeMP.jpg:large

This may be a full scale mockup of the current demonstrator idea for the franco german next gen fighter. Being prepped for display for the next week's Paris air show.
 
Deino said:
totoro said:
D9AnQfJXoAADeMP.jpg:large

This may be a full scale mockup of the current demonstrator idea for the franco german next gen fighter. Being prepped for display for the next week's Paris air show.
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And another image ...

View attachment 615205
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Judging from the photos it looks as if it is going to be a big fighter. It will be interesting to see its unveiling next week.
 
Well a short video from French Government Defense website about Le Bourget Air Show 2019;

It's about the SCAF from 50" to 1'02"


We can see three times the SCAF (or some things to show the SCAF). The two "figthting" SCAF seem to be different from the real SCAF (showed by Tottoro and Deino). The "web" SCAF looks almost like a F-22
 

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Nice to see Europe catching that stealth wave, with all the projects popping everywhere, J-20, PAK-FA, and the likes.
 
News of a french website : there are no "YF-23 V-tail" on the NFG 1/1 model : it's only because of wood sticks for the not waterproof tarpaulin (it rains) ;)
 
flateric said:
Fake news. It has V-tail actually.
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:confused:

Source ?

Mine :

FCAS SCAF et connexes (NGWS, drone FCAS - DP etc.)

www.air-defense.net www.air-defense.net

Ne vous excitez pas ce ne sont pas des dérives, comme la bâche n'est pas perméable et au vu de la météo DA a installé des pièces en bois pour laisser la maquette sécher en cas d'humidité sur la maquette.
:biggrin:
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OK, it was maybe a joke. I asked the author and he said : I answer tomorrow… Obviously, he is not sure of his source either…

Otherwise, the photo of the indoor NGF/SCAF mock-up in the Dassault indoor Showroom stand in Le Bourget (not 1/1 but under tarpaulin too) :
 

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Deltafan said:
Otherwise, the photo of the indoor NGF/SCAF mock-up in the Dassault indoor Showroom stand in Le Bourget (not 1/1 but under tarpaulin too) :
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See for yourself...I think there's little troubles with rain inside the pavillion (this is not FIAS at least, lol)
 

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flateric said:
See for yourself...I think there's little troubles with rain inside the pavillion (this is not FIAS at least, lol)
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OK, even if the indoor (1/X) and the outdoor (1/1) Mock-ups don't seem to be exactly the same it seems that you are right and that i am wrong.

The complete answer should be there tomorrow with the mock-ups without tarpaulin.;)

question : what is FIAS
 
Deltafan said:
flateric said:
See for yourself...I think there's little troubles with rain inside the pavillion (this is not FIAS at least, lol)
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OK, even if the indoor (1/X) and the outdoor (1/1) Mock-ups don't seem to be exactly the same it seems that you are right and that i am wrong.

The complete answer should be there tomorrow with the mock-ups without tarpaulin.;)

question : what is FIAS
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So in essence, we all wait for some sort of aircraft/mock-up-striptease ! :p
 
Notice that the mockup seems to have axially separated main WB (two under the belly can be seen)
 
According to a french specialist of defense, the tarpaulin of the outdoor mock-up should be removed by Macron Monday around 12H00

But maybe the tarpaulin of the indoor mock-up will be removed sooner...
 

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