Eurofighter Typhoon

Desertfox said:
The Mexican Navy tried to buy Su-27s back in 2006. There is a need a for a high-performance fighter than can catch and force down business jets. While I agree the F/T-7A makes sense (as does the F/A-50) the Typhoon might be cheaper, available much sooner, and is twin-engined.
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I'm aure there are other jets that are more optimally suited for this role.
 
The Fighter Attack variant of Leonardo's Master trainer could be an other possibility snne.
 
The P4E SD Contract has been signed, laying the foundations for the next major upgrade package.

The System Definition isn't yet a full development contract though. Such a D3Q contract is due when the SD phase is finished, or at least close to be finished.

Key features covered by the SD phase comprise:
- Common Radar Interface compatible with all radar variants
- New task based management operating principle for the sensor suite as a whole
- DASS enhancements (likely new digital ESM receiver and SDS)
- IOC for German EK variant (initial integration of the Arexis and possibly AGM-88E)
- RF Interoperability enhancements to ensure proper RF interoperability between new/upgraded systems

The actual scope might be greater than what is publicly announced, but AMK seems not to be in for the moment.

Service life extension is being investigated as well under the SD contract, but I don't expect it to have an immediate impact.
 
timmymagic said:
15 x Typhoon EK to Germany - Now called EK instead of ECR. Airbus has said is unlikely that just 15 will be ordered. However, these are upgrades of existing airframes*
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I'm expecting ~30-35 (total) Typhoon EK to Germany, close to 1-for-1 replacing the Tornado ECRs.

Italy might get some, but will probably rely on F-35 capabilities to approximate the ECR/EK.



snne said:
I'm aure there are other jets that are more optimally suited for [chasing down business jets].
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Not many that are also cheap. You need a supersonic aircraft to chase down a business jet, most of them can do M=0.9 and change, at 45,000ft (I'm in a pilots group on FB, I've seen M=0.96 at 47k posted for some of the high end bizjets). So there's an armed T-7, an FA-50, or a real fighter. The M346 Master is only supersonic in a dive, max speed is 590knots.

A Tranche 1 Typhoon will definitely do that job well and not be absurdly expensive to operate, and will have good spare parts support from everyone who still has Typhoons of whatever Tranche.
 
Scorpion82 said:
The P4E SD Contract has been signed, laying the foundations for the next major upgrade package.

The System Definition isn't yet a full development contract though. Such a D3Q contract is due when the SD phase is finished, or at least close to be finished.

Key features covered by the SD phase comprise:
- Common Radar Interface compatible with all radar variants
- New task based management operating principle for the sensor suite as a whole
- DASS enhancements (likely new digital ESM receiver and SDS)
- IOC for German EK variant (initial integration of the Arexis and possibly AGM-88E)
- RF Interoperability enhancements to ensure proper RF interoperability between new/upgraded systems

The actual scope might be greater than what is publicly announced, but AMK seems not to be in for the moment.

Service life extension is being investigated as well under the SD contract, but I don't expect it to have an immediate impact.
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Wasn‘t part of P4E Taurus cruise missile for EF?
 
Have they tested the Taurus cruise missile on Eurofighter at all? I thought that after the RAF clearing the Storm Shadow the Luftwaffe would have been quick to clear the Taurus as well.
 
FighterJock said:
Have they tested the Taurus cruise missile on Eurofighter at all? I thought that after the RAF clearing the Storm Shadow the Luftwaffe would have been quick to clear the Taurus as well.
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Yes. It was testet already and while it is a close call it works. But i don't now if uprated engines and / or AMK are needed
 
timmymagic said:
Chancellor Scholz - English Translation via X

"We want a strong aerospace industry in Germany and Europe. This includes planning security in the defense industry. That is why we are ensuring reliable orders - including the order for 20 more Eurofighters in this legislative period. #ILA24"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798300549588353071
View: https://twitter.com/Bundeskanzler/status/1798300549588353071
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The translation from X is not accurate from my point of view.
If someone from germany say "starke Luft- und Raumfahrtbranche" it does not automatically mean a strong aerospace industry. It could include a strong aerospace industry but could also mean a strong aerospace business with buying chinese products and sale them further as european products.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I'm expecting ~30-35 (total) Typhoon EK to Germany, close to 1-for-1 replacing the Tornado ECRs.

Italy might get some, but will probably rely on F-35 capabilities to approximate the ECR/EK.




Not many that are also cheap. You need a supersonic aircraft to chase down a business jet, most of them can do M=0.9 and change, at 45,000ft (I'm in a pilots group on FB, I've seen M=0.96 at 47k posted for some of the high end bizjets). So there's an armed T-7, an FA-50, or a real fighter. The M346 Master is only supersonic in a dive, max speed is 590knots.

A Tranche 1 Typhoon will definitely do that job well and not be absurdly expensive to operate, and will have good spare parts support from everyone who still has Typhoons of whatever Tranche.
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The Typhoon is very expensive to support and has much lower availability than a Rafale. Any obsolete Tranche 1s are better parted out for current operators than sold on to an unsuspecting developing nations.

There’s also the question of why the Mexicans would need to intercept extremely high end business jets? If anyone hasn’t noticed, the Mexican drug cartels largely control events on the ground and don’t require expensive aviation assets to conduct their trade.
 
TinWing said:
The Typhoon is very expensive to support and has much lower availability than a Rafale. Any obsolete Tranche 1s are better parted out for current operators than sold on to an unsuspecting developing nations.
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Tbh that's on Luftwaffe and et al. though... I'm sure that on the hands of others who take their security more seriously, the availability could actually increase; it's just that I'm not sure if Mexico is one of these countries.
 
kqcke for you said:
Wasn‘t part of P4E Taurus cruise missile for EF?
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Apart from the fact the requirements/priorities change permanently, i wasn't planned to my knowledge at this stage. I expect that P4E will be eventually split into increments and it might well be that Taurus comes at some time around 2030+. The carriage trials performed in 2014 were conducted in support of Storm Shadow, it were air data gathering trials only. For full Taurus integration full carriage envelope trials, separation tests and weapon system integration is required. That's a lot of work to do.
 
TinWing said:
The Typhoon is very expensive to support and has much lower availability than a Rafale.
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I have no data about operating costs but regarding availability, this is simply not true. German Eurofighters used to have a bad rap when it comes to availability not so long ago but that was an entirely self-inflicted problem. Measures were taken to improve the situation and according to the Bundeswehr Material Readiness Report II/2021, German Eurofighters now have a availability rate of over 80% which is pretty good. Havent heard any complaints from other Eurofighter operators about their supposed lack of availability either. In contrast, in 2021 French AF Rafales had an availability rate of only 55% while their Navy counterparts did slightly better at 61%. This is according to official French parliamentary reports.
 
"Whactch'ya think?"
Erm, rubbish?
You can't even see the screen for the glare, let alone with a helmet on and visor etc., looks in a worse state than my work computer screen.
 
Same thoughts here Scorpion82, I do not like this screen at all. Let's wait and see if this is just another prototype.
 
ST21 said:
I have no data about operating costs but regarding availability, this is simply not true. German Eurofighters used to have a bad rap when it comes to availability not so long ago but that was an entirely self-inflicted problem. Measures were taken to improve the situation and according to the Bundeswehr Material Readiness Report II/2021, German Eurofighters now have a availability rate of over 80% which is pretty good. Havent heard any complaints from other Eurofighter operators about their supposed lack of availability either. In contrast, in 2021 French AF Rafales had an availability rate of only 55% while their Navy counterparts did slightly better at 61%. This is according to official French parliamentary reports.
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To add to this....the RAF and its partners. RSAF, RAFO and QEAF have got the per hour flight costs of Typhoon down to late model F-16 levels....under the Project Tytan banner....not sure if this work has been shared with the other operators as it does rely on certain constructs within the UK and BAE manage the servicing of RSAF, RAFO and QEAF Typhoon.


uk.leonardo.com

TyTAN of industry: Leonardo’s plans for future-proofing Eurofighter support

Leonardo proudly delivers more than 60% of the avionics for the Eurofighter Typhoon, which helps protect the fighter and ensures its operational readiness. The company is also ensuring Typhoon readiness and availability in other ways, including delivering avionics support for Royal Air Force...
uk.leonardo.com uk.leonardo.com
 
They will certainly opt for a LAD, for advantages of sensor resolution exploitation and flexibility in reconfiguration. It has it's clear advantages, albeit I prefer the more traditional approach, I understand the route being taken.
 
FighterJock said:
Let's see if they go with the BAEs Large Area Display I think that would help boost BAE Systems technology by a long way timmymagic.
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It's a shoo in. BAE have been developing it for an age, plus it will be on the UK's T3's with ECRS Mk.2 as its a necessary upgrade, with Striker II helmet.
 
Any ideas as to what the new Striker 2 helmet would look like?
 
timmymagic said:
Sorry about the annoying presenter though...
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Not your fault. But indeed he's annoying. The entire series is a joke, if you ask me. Long gone are the times when Eurofighter was still producing at least some interesting public materials. Anyone remembers the old Vortex magazines? And there was another one preceding the current EF WORLD. Even the website itself was more interesting in the past.
 
I can agree with you on that point Scorpion82, I do not know who redesigned the Eurofighter website but I do not like the way it currently looks.
 
FighterJock said:
I can agree with you on that point Scorpion82, I do not know who redesigned the Eurofighter website but I do not like the way it currently looks.
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Apparently the marketing/PR guys at EF GmbH. Albeit there have been some silly things piblished in the past already, such as GBU-24 on inboard wing pylons and other heavy stores on models and graphics/renderings, albeit these weapons don't even fit there.
 
With the German and Spanish orders, plus the Italian one thats 127 new Typhoon ordered by 3 of the 4 main consortium members recently....with possibly more to come (German brand new EK order, perhaps more to replace Tornado and a potential Spanish 'Halcon III' split with F-35B).

Don't be expecting an order from the RAF regardless of change of government....unless Labour really do increase defence spending and F-35 continues to be a complete programmatic disaster...

We really do need a full assembly order for Warton though.....the Saudi order could really do with landing some time soon....
 
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The Saudis are looking at fifth generation fighters at present so it will be interesting to see where that goes in regards to the future Typhoon order timmymagic.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Their bid is between Rafales, Eagle IIs and Typhoons, so I don't know where you're coming from with that notion.
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He's coming from the fact that the Saudi MoD has visited TAI recenty; but even as I shared that news, I still mentioned that it didn't mean anything.

snne said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1808504456159408560
View: https://x.com/SavunmaSanayii/status/1808504456159408560
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Moreover, even if they were chasing after Turkey for the Kaan; the earliest expected availability date of that plane is 2028 and that's assuming no delays happen; and even then the TuAF has a huge demand for 5th gen aircraft due to the whole F-35 drama. So even if they were to place an order, they wouldn't receive the jet for easily 4-5 years.
 
Saudis have both Typhoons and F15SAs already, so either one is possible.

Kaan is a different story, but is desirable because it's not made by one of the Great Satans directly. Especially if TAI can get their engine for it working instead of needing F100s.

Kinda depends on what the delivery timeline is that the Saudis are looking at. If they're OK with a 2035ish delivery date, then Kaan has a chance. If the Saudis need planes before then, flip a coin as to whether they get more Typhoons or more F15s.
 
If TAI can get their engine sorted for the Kann then I can still see it as a possible purchase in the future to replace the early F-15s that Saudi have, though at that point I can still see them ordering either Rafales or Typhoons or the F-15 Eagle 2 to supplement the F-15SAs.
 
timmymagic said:
With the German and Spanish orders, plus the Italian one thats 127 new Typhoon ordered by 3 of the 4 main consortium members recently....with possibly more to come (German brand new EK order, perhaps more to replace Tornado and a potential Spanish 'Halcon III' split with F-35B).

Don't be expecting an order from the RAF
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So if my count is right, the UK is the only partner that hasn’t honored its original commitment.

Original orders -> Current orders
UK 232 -> 160
Germany 180 -> 201
Italy 121 -> 120
Spain 87 -> 118

Which in hindsight means that the UK got 10% more workshare than it deserved and Germany + Spain each should have gotten 5% more workshare…
 
H_K said:
So if my count is right, the UK is the only partner that hasn’t honored its original commitment.

Original orders -> Current orders
UK 232 -> 160
Germany 180 -> 201
Italy 121 -> 120
Spain 87 -> 118

Which in hindsight means that the UK got 10% more workshare than it deserved and Germany + Spain each should have gotten 5% more workshare…
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Spain overshoot there goal and even the original goal.
 

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