Eurofighter Typhoon

H_K said:
So if my count is right, the UK is the only partner that hasn’t honored its original commitment.

Original orders -> Current orders
UK 232 -> 160
Germany 180 -> 201
Italy 121 -> 120
Spain 87 -> 118

Which in hindsight means that the UK got 10% more workshare than it deserved and Germany + Spain each should have gotten 5% more workshare…
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The UK very cleverly did a government to government sale from the UK's commitment of 232 and shifted 72 to RSAF...so they met their 232 commitment.

They then went on to actually sell Typhoon to Qatar and Oman as well....German's sole 'sale' was passing on some German T1's to Austria (so by your calculation they didn't originally meet their commitment either). Spanish haven't sold a thing...Italy managed to get a sale for 24 to Kuwait.

The UK has also been the one consortium member over the hard days of the 00's and 10's who actually pushed things forward...
No UK means no Meteor, no radar upgrades, no air to ground enhancements. To be honest I don't think there would have been any changes until now with a mad panic on....
 
timmymagic said:
The UK very cleverly did a government to government sale from the UK's commitment of 232 and shifted 72 to RSAF...so they met their 232 commitment.
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In other words: cheating. Let's be honest the UK did not meet their 232 commitment.

timmymagic said:
They then went on to actually sell Typhoon to Qatar and Oman as well....German's sole 'sale' was passing on some German T1's to Austria (so by your calculation they didn't originally meet their commitment either). Spanish haven't sold a thing...Italy managed to get a sale for 24 to Kuwait.
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The Germans replaced the T1s given to Austria with additonal T2s.
But either way they only reached the original commitment of 180 with the most recent orders.
 
timmymagic said:
Just to note these Typhoon are specifically to replace Tranche 1.

There will be a lot of Tranche 1 Typhoon coming free before 2030 at this rate...>100 airframes. All with at least half their operational life still left in them...
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But with very limited upgradability and little commonality with the rest of the fleet.

Might be good for Mexico, however.
 
Scott Kenny said:
But with very limited upgradability and little commonality with the rest of the fleet.
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I've been saying for an age...do the AESA antenna upgrade....and send to Ukraine. As a medium term fighter its the only one that makes any sense for them....
 
Gareth was spot on about Typhoon for Italy....when no-one else believed it...

But I think this might be far more hope than reality...I can't see the Labour Government, pre-SDR, and with a mere couple of weeks in power actually doing this...

The only thing that would actually make sense long term would be a purchase of EK...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1814727805269057828
View: https://twitter.com/GarethJennings3/status/1814727805269057828?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


https://twitter.com/x/status/1814727812655555028
View: https://twitter.com/GarethJennings3/status/1814727812655555028
 
Acquisition of a small number (say 14) in the EW/SEAD role is a capability the UK currently lacks and would be useful but I dont think they will announce a large new acquisition during a defence review unless BAE has told them we need this to keep the future GCAP line running.

It was announced this week that the BAE had completed all aircraft integration ground testing of the ECRS MKII in the anechoic chamber, meaning the completion of all ground testing activities and just leaving flight testing to complete which might be the progress/announcement at Farnborough, maybe accelerated deployment to actual aircraft.
 
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WatcherZero said:
Acquisition of a small number (say 14) in the EW/SEAD role is a capability the UK currently lacks and would be useful but I dont think they will announce a large new acquisition during a defence review unless BAE has told them we need this to keep the future GCAP line running.
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Agreed, the UK getting their own squadron of Wild Weasels would be a really useful thing for them to pursue.

And if I were a service chief, I might make it known through back channels that I'd really like to buy this so if BAE could throw me a line to beat Treasury up with it'd be much appreciated...
 
So far the US uses F-35A modified with reinforcement structural frame modifications to allow extra munition carrying in the SEAD role (allowing a larger GBU-39 and AGM-154 loadout than standard) and Im not sure F-35B's will be able to carry HARM weapons internally. The F-35 at present also doesn't have wide area jamming equipment to protect other aircraft just self protection jamming.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Agreed, the UK getting their own squadron of Wild Weasels would be a really useful thing for them to pursue.

And if I were a service chief, I might make it known through back channels that I'd really like to buy this so if BAE could throw me a line to beat Treasury up with it'd be much appreciated...
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I think RAF will have ECR Mk.2 already can operate Jammer and Attack same time also can attack radar to jammer lock on, and destroy board equipment is different compare EKR Typhoon so no need wild weasel squadron, they plan arm with SPEAR 3 and SPEAR EW. Just upgrade Radar.

which different Germany wants EKR Typhoon with ECR MK.1 with extra Jammer Pod.
 
WatcherZero said:
Acquisition of a small number (say 14) in the EW/SEAD role is a capability the UK currently lacks and would be useful but I dont think they will announce a large new acquisition during a defence review unless BAE has told them we need this to keep the future GCAP line running.
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I think this is the only realistic scenario....but its very unlikely. EK could support Typhoon, F-35 and GCAP in the future (the 2 seater would have been better though).

WatcherZero said:
It was announced this week that the BAE had completed all aircraft integration ground testing of the ECRS MKII in the anechoic chamber, meaning the completion of all ground testing activities and just leaving flight testing to complete which might be the progress/announcement at Farnborough, maybe accelerated deployment to actual aircraft.
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Or a commitment to upgrade the Tranche 2 to ECRS mk.2 as well...would have thought this was more likely, but still unlikely, than new production.

WatcherZero said:
So far the US uses F-35A modified with reinforcement structural frame modifications to allow extra munition carrying in the SEAD role (allowing a larger GBU-39 and AGM-154 loadout than standard) and Im not sure F-35B's will be able to carry HARM weapons internally. The F-35 at present also doesn't have wide area jamming equipment to protect other aircraft just self protection jamming.
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Think our weapon of choice will continue to be Spear and Spear EW for DEAD.
 
WatcherZero said:
So far the US uses F-35A modified with reinforcement structural frame modifications to allow extra munition carrying in the SEAD role (allowing a larger GBU-39 and AGM-154 loadout than standard) and Im not sure F-35B's will be able to carry HARM weapons internally. The F-35 at present also doesn't have wide area jamming equipment to protect other aircraft just self protection jamming.
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Spear EW. And nor does Tornado ECR and EF EK
 
Tornado ECR had Ceberus Jammer pods (Italians had it carried internally in place of the gun) which had both self protection and area jam (for escort) unlike the 1979 British Skyshadow ECM pod and it was developed through three progressively more capable Marks upto Mark IV in 1998 as well as a sister of the mark IV the Tornado Self Protection Jammer (TSPJ) which had only self protection capability. In addition the Tornado ECR carried two BOZ counter measure pods and HARM missiles.
 
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djpowell1984 said:
I think RAF will have ECR Mk.2 already can operate Jammer and Attack same time also can attack radar to jammer lock on, and destroy board equipment is different compare EKR Typhoon so no need wild weasel squadron, they plan arm with SPEAR 3 and SPEAR EW. Just upgrade Radar.

which different Germany wants EKR Typhoon with ECR MK.1 with extra Jammer Pod.
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it's same capability F-35 an/apg-81 has.
i.e. very powerful, but front only x-band jamming.
 
Ainen said:
it's same capability F-35 an/apg-81 has.
i.e. very powerful, but front only x-band jamming.
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basically ECR Mk.2 more powerfully yet only Front jamming area as APG-81, i got it now thank you for explain. 90+/- Cover

EKR has 360 degrees cover use pod jammer and other equipment in different types with ECR MK.1 ? pretty cool ;-)

is it correct?
 
And once upon a time there was the plan for dedicated jammer pods / drones with it for the Luftwaffe. But they probaly decided to base that of from an FCAS UCAV design if the budget is there sometimes in the future.
 
Scott Kenny said:
which have very limited jamming capabilities. forward arc X-band only.
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Well, I doubt typhoon EK(i.e. without true escort/stand off jamming, just with gripen e self-defense suit and ARM capability) counts as comprehensive either. I.e. it's just an old-style wild wiesel aircraft (admittedly, with probably the best western off the shelf self-protection set available now...but it won't be available now) and not much more. Wild wiesel with capabilities others get on their normal aircraft.

True EW pods (and a dedicated EW suit to support them) and iirc even EW officer station were part of ECR proposal, and apparently no one financed it.

So there is no fullbackski, much less growlerski.
And again arexis typhoon alone, Imho f-35 is a better air defense destroyer.
 

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