Eurofighter Typhoon

uk.news.yahoo.com

Turkey still interested in Eurofighters despite progress on US F-16s

Turkey is still interested in buying 40 Eurofighter Typhoon jets, a Turkish defence ministry official said on Thursday after the United States advanced the $23 billion sale of its F-16 fighter jets to Ankara. In November, Turkey said the country was in talks with Britain and Spain to buy...
uk.news.yahoo.com uk.news.yahoo.com
 
Interesting development WatcherZero, especially since Turkey are waiting for the KANN entering service. I was also wondering about the type of radar that the Typhoons would have? Similar to the Kuwaite Air Force variants?
 
Thanks WatcherZero, it is a pity that the Turks never went through the UK and got the Mk2 radar the most advanced radar of the two variants that will be used on the RAF Typhoons.
 
Broken said:
I'm confused where the notion that this is a German sale is coming from.
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Initial approach was to UK/Italy but Turkey have said this week they were in discussions with Germany on it. If Saudi orders go through German production line would have the earliest production slots to deliver the order.
 
WatcherZero said:
Initial approach was to UK/Italy but Turkey have said this week they were in discussions with Germany on it. If Saudi orders go through German production line would have the earliest production slots to deliver the order.
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Yes discussions, because all partners need to approve the export and currently the Germans are reluctant (like with Saudi Arabia). That is a separate issue as to who gets the sale. I'd be surprised if it didn't go to BAE given the strong links British industry has attempted to cultivate with Turkey under Erdogan's leadership.

German industry of course is awaiting Germany's own order, so it isn't necessarily the case their order book will be much more free. Besides, with the F16 sale now looking to go through there is less pressure on timescale anyway.
 

Edit (another article) :

WDS: UK moves in on new Saudi Typhoon order | Times Aerospace

Since Saudi Arabia’s initial acquisition of 72 Eurofighter Typhoons, delivered between June 2009 and June 2017, there has always been the expectation of further orders of up to 96 more Typhoons. Finally, obstacles to a deal have started to melt away.
www.timesaerospace.aero www.timesaerospace.aero

To be confirmed (World Defense Show opening was on Sunday)
 
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WatcherZero said:
Being reported by multiple reporters now the Saudis want a Tranche 5 standard Eurofighter with ECRS Mk.2 radar, Large Area Display and project Medulla mid life upgrades. They have also asked for quotes on additional A330 MRTT and for the A400M.
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Doesn't T4 come with ECRS Mk.2s already? Developing a new Tranche would certainly delay the delivery...
 
WatcherZero said:
The Turks keep saying they want the latest spec's, but since they are going through the Germans I guess likely to be the Mk1 radar variant.
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Generation-wise, Mk.1 and Mk.2 are now more of a separate radar with different lineages. Of course, one could argue Vixen 1000 is a newer, more advanced radar to be based off, but in terms of when the two radars appeared, I think it's misleading to call them different generations.

Also, in terms of what the Turks desire in regards to delivery schedule and what's actually possible, ECRS mk.1 would be the "latest" radar, even by the time they actually ink the deal (if the deal actually materializes).

kqcke for you said:
Don't all the sales go over the uk?
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It depends on the region. MEA used to be Italy and UK, depending on the sub-region. I'd be surprised if UK isn't in charge of the communication with the Turks.

snne said:
Doesn't T4 come with ECRS Mk.2s already? Developing a new Tranche would certainly delay the delivery...
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T4 is the Quadriga standard with ECRS mk.1
 
FighterJock said:
First time that I have heard of the Vixen 1000 radar Maro.Kyo, is there any info on it yet?
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Vixen 1000 is from the same family of radars as Vixen 500, which is better known as the only in-use variant ES-05 Raven. In terms of developmental lineage, ECRS mk.1 is the continuation of CAPTOR family of radars, whereas ECRS mk.2 is not. In terms of underlying radar architechture of the base radar, ECRS mk.2 is newer and more advanced, though as I've said, mk.1 and mk.2 are more of a different radars now rather than a later iteration of one another.

mk.1 is a Hensoldt-Indra product whereas mk.2 is Leonardo UK.
 
F-2 said:
Customs and border protection also use Vixen 500 on their drug interdiction plane. I believe it became available in the mid 2000s?
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You're right. I wasn't aware CBP used Vixen on their surveillance planes. Selex ES won the contract in 2009 and Vixen 500E entered service on C-550 in 2012. They retired the plane in 2019 though.
 
Eurofighter statement from BAE Systems

BAE Systems Spokesperson made the following statements to Defense Turk;

“We continue to pursue a number of export opportunities for Typhoon in Europe and beyond. We support the UK Government's discussions with Turkey on shared defense and security priorities, including its interest in Typhoon."

"The Typhoon remains one of the world's most successful military combat aircraft, providing critical air defense capability, including support to NATO operations."

BAE Systems exhibited the next generation cockpit of the Eurofighter Typhoon at the World Defense Show in Saudi Arabia.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1755942298012000437
View: https://x.com/Defence_Turk/status/1755942298012000437?s=20
 
That display is massive in comparison to the rather small displays the RAF Typhoons have currently got, I take it that the displays will be retro fitted to the RAF Typhoons in the not so distant future? Also the missing HUD is another shock to me as well.
 
FighterJock said:
That display is massive in comparison to the rather small displays the RAF Typhoons have currently got, I take it that the displays will be retro fitted to the RAF Typhoons in the not so distant future? Also the missing HUD is another shock to me as well.
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They are going the F-35 route in terms of avionics upgrade.
 
Quite good that they are doing the F-35 big displays seigecrossbow, it gives the Typhoon pilot much better situational awareness, plus with doing away with the HUD and putting all the data that would otherwise be on the Heads Up Display in a dedicated F-35 style HMD is a way forward for the Typhoon.
 
Turkey's possible Eurofighter purchase: "Positive signals for local ammunition integration"

Quoting the parts I deemed relevant:
"BAE Systems declined to comment on the Eurofighter Typhoon configuration requested by Turkey. The company responded positively to the question of whether Turkey, which has a wide range of indigenous munitions, "has the opportunity to integrate its own munitions." The British defense giant explained that Typhoon has unrivaled agility with its capacity to carry a wide range of air-to-air and air-to-ground ammunition, and has a positive and strong track record in providing integrations in accordance with the wishes of user countries."

"One of the main reasons for Turkey's interest in acquiring the Eurofighter Typhoon is that it has a very good air-to-air (air-to-air) capability among the 4++ generation fighters. Typhoon's future ECRS (European Common Radar System) Mk2 AESA radar will be almost completely different from the current Mk 0 and Mk 1 radars. While the previous series used GaAs modules, the Mk2 uses a combination of GaAs and GaN modules. The biggest trademark of the Mk 2 is that it allows simultaneous broadband electronic warfare. The radar integrated electronic warfare system, which is also an ambitious feature of the F-35 fighter jets, will provide a great advantage for Typhoon."

"BAE Systems did not provide information on the possible sale of ECRS Mk2 to Turkey, but said that the radar has not yet started flight trials this year, but has been integrated into the test and evaluation aircraft and ground tests are continuing at the Air Combat Engineering Center. The company also stated that it will be integrated into existing UK Typhoons by the 2030s."

"When asked whether the company is considering independent production from other partners, BAE Systems officials were clear that the program is being carried out in conjunction with the partner countries. The program is "a long-term cooperative partnership built on the industrial and political strengths of the four partner countries (Germany, Italy, Spain and the United Kingdom)," the company said, adding that it has received excellent support from the four partner countries."
https://www.defenceturk.net/turkiye...i-yerel-muhimmat-entegrasyonuna-olumlu-sinyal

Green light on Turkish munitions integration. Possibly no way of building them without Germany. New radar won't be ready for some time and if Turkey orders now with a quicker schedule program, it would need to buy them with Mk1 radars, requiring to spend again later to replace them with Mk2s

https://defencehub.live/threads/turkish-air-forces-news-discussion.2740/post-320443
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Some more speculation on the German orders. Quadriga for 38 aircraft is under contract, EK appears to be moving forward with an initial 15 aircraft refitted and then new build following. Beyond that was the potential order for 'up to 50' Typhoon Tranche 5. To be honest its hard to see the Typhoon LTE as it currently stands proceeding if this approach was adopted.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783154527488881019
View: https://twitter.com/AlexLuck9/status/1783154527488881019?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Article from Hartpunkt - Translated by Google Translate

The Eurofighter manufacturer Airbus Defense and Space (ADS) has been warning for some time about the disruption of the supply chain if the Bundeswehr does not decide to order more fighter aircraft of this type. There is a risk that in such a case, highly qualified jobs and the expertise to build fighter jets will also be lost.

Most recently, in an interview with the news magazine “Der Spiegel”, ADS boss Michael Schöllhorn called for a reliable commitment from the federal government to order around another 50 Eurofighters in a tranche 5 before the federal election. The machines are intended to replace the remaining Tornados, which will be phased out by the end of this decade.

In addition to a procurement of the required size, there is apparently another option currently being discussed: the purchase of a significantly smaller tranche 5 with a size of at least 20 machines, essentially a tranche 4+. In terms of technology, the new aircraft would essentially correspond to Tranche 4 with 38 aircraft, also known as Project Quadriga, which is currently in production.

Development of the Long Term Evolution (LTE) aircraft configuration, which was actually planned for the 5th installment, will probably not be possible until Quadriga's expected end of production in 2030. After that, the production of the new aircraft would have to continue seamlessly in order to avoid friction.

In fact, preparations are currently underway in the Ministry of Defense to commission a tranche 4+ during this legislative period, according to well-informed circles in the Bundestag. It is said that the BMVg is aware of the problem.

What will be crucial, however, will be finding the money for the additional machines. Insiders assume that at least 3 billion euros will be incurred as part of an overall package for a new batch of Eurofighters. The finance minister would have to be creative here, because there should be no corresponding provisions in either individual plan 14 or the Bundeswehr special fund.

If an order is actually placed, another question arises: Will there still be money available to develop LTE for the 20 or 30 Eurofighters that have not yet been ordered or are there other approaches? Until now, the plan was to roll out LTE with Tranche 5 and then retrofit the aircraft in the earlier tranches with it.

Today, another project to further develop the Eurofighter was on the agenda of the Defense and Budget Committee. The conclusion of a contract with a volume of more than 25 million euros for the development project program Eurofighter – “P4E System Definition” (P4E SD), which is financed from the Bundeswehr special fund. At the time of going to press, the Defense Committee had already given the green light to the proposal.

Lars Hoffmann
 
snne said:
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1752981027759300885
View: https://twitter.com/orko_8/status/1752981027759300885?t=m9UPwAPoE3Wi8waqNZJ5sw&s=19
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Germans being unreasonable as usual when it comes to Turkey...

MoD Güler: "I believe it will be resolved in a short time."
Minister Güler's statement regarding the procurement of Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets: "We, as Turkey, have been expressing that we want to purchase such a plane from the very beginning. Eurofighter is not only a system belonging to our German friends, but a consortium. There is England, there is Spain. There are some points where our German friends have been stuck since the beginning "As two countries that are members of an organization like NATO, it is not possible for us to accept this. We often share this with our friends. I personally believe that giving Eurofighters to Saudi Arabia can be a start."
https://twitter.com/x/status/1786123006260965689
View: https://x.com/Defence_Turk/status/1786123006260965689
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snne said:
Germans being unreasonable as usual when it comes to Turkey...
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As far as we know nothing happend to this deal for turkey until now. I don't know the specifics about the arms deal restrictions but i think it doesn't fall under it so atleast for now Germany never had to "openly" say no. And we also don't know about the talks behind to curtain as turkey maybe wants to get some production capabilitys, get work for engines because of KAAN or germany wants something in exchange. Who knows until they say something...

And the sanctions weren't without a reason but given that saudi can get them its only far for turkey too.
 
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I always wonder what makes most Turks think they can convince Germans for Eurofighter when they still cannot convince them for MTU engines for Altay MBT. After Altay fiasco, Turks should have learned to focus on getting f110s for Kaan delivered to Turkey ASAP but they are chasing EF pipe dream.
 
GeekerSeeker said:
I always wonder what makes most Turks think they can convince Germans for Eurofighter when they still cannot convince them for MTU engines for Altay MBT. After Altay fiasco, Turks should have learned to focus on getting f110s for Kaan delivered to Turkey ASAP but they are chasing EF pipe dream.
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I agree with the rest but what makes you think they aren't focusing on the F110s when we regularly receive news about "TEI wanting to produce 100+100 F404s for Hurjet and 40+(?) F110s initial 20 Kaan under licence". Mind you these are not a bunch of guys, there are many cliques within government organisations, they can pursue both at the same time.
 
snne said:
I agree with the rest but what makes you think they aren't focusing on the F110s when we regularly receive news about "TEI wanting to produce 100+100 F404s for Hurjet and 40+(?) F110s initial 20 Kaan under licence". Mind you these are not a bunch of guys, there are many cliques within government organisations, they can pursue both at the same time.
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Considering Erdogan's government's attitude against Israel/US, Türkiye is taking a big risk by spending/wasting time on convincing other party on local manufacturing, assembly line prep etc.

Same happened with Altay, they waited for the factory before engine procurement. Then Erdogan happened.

Same happened with f35, they waited better blocks before procurement after making the payment. Then Erdogan happened.

Same is happening with Kaan, they are waiting for the approval of local manufacturing for the engines ..
 
Is this to offset the fact that the GCAP/Tempest won't be ready until sometime in the 2030s? It would make sense for Italy to buy more Typhoons right now to at least keep their air force squadrons ready until GCAP enters service.
 

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