Looks like the Saab Arexis has got the nod for the German Typhoon EK order.

View: https://twitter.com/Gabriel64869839/status/1668602090875224064



Interesting bit at the bottom of the Saab Arexis product page...
"Protecting high-value assets, the Arexis air-launched decoy can deceive a wide range of threats.The controls in the Arexis Air-Launched Decoy (SPEAR-EW) together with its network connectivity will detect and suppress the threats, keeping other high-value assets safe."

Saab did propose an EW decoy missile to Finland as part of their HX offer. Initially just a tiny CGI image on a Powerpoint, then at a trade show a Spear-EW turned up on the stand branded as Arexis, the presumption was that it would include a Saab designed EW package rather than the Leonardo Britecloud derived payload. It looks like they've abandoned that pretence now and are just re-branding Spear-EW...
 
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I just found this ( thought it was in house look at CiTrus90 post below ) typhoon model of the proposed variant for the Bulgarian air force unknown scale looks more like 1/48 in a pharmacy of all places 20230615_133426.jpg 20230615_133419.jpg 20230615_133422.jpg
 
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I just found this inhouse typhoon model of the proposed variant for the Bulgarian air force unknown scale looks more like 1/48 in a pharmacy of all places
Not an inhouse model, that's a Lupa Model Eurofighter (notice the poor fidelity of the model with regards to the real aircraft, and also the base of the model). Somebody just put Bulgarian AF roundels on it, a poorly cut bort number and got himself a what-if Eurofighter.

More pics, if anyone wants to take a closer look at the details.
 
I just found this inhouse typhoon model of the proposed variant for the Bulgarian air force unknown scale looks more like 1/48 in a pharmacy of all places
Not an inhouse model, that's a Lupa Model Eurofighter (notice the poor fidelity of the model with regards to the real aircraft, and also the base of the model). Somebody just put Bulgarian AF roundels on it, a poorly cut bort number and got himself a what-if Eurofighter.

More pics, if anyone wants to take a closer look at the details.
Thanks CiTrus90 I thought on first glimpse it looked legit thought the roundels look too small and that tactical number placement is making me scratch my head though the source claimed to me that it's inhouse model
 
Slightly OT. although relating to above display model post (mods please remove if necessary?)
BAE. Systems had a number of models made via Lupa Models as promotional pieces for visiting trade expos etc. These 'cheap' models are gifted to dignitaries, defence officials, etc. and excess examples sold or given away (I think it can be safely assumed that most of them were pitched as public relations and not as serious sales proposals !)
The Bulgarian example is most likely legit as I have seen similar Lupa 48 scale models in Croatian, Serbian (with same numerical marking), Greek, Saudi, South Korean and Turkish markings (I posted some earlier in the thread) :)

In relation to the above, i do know of models of the Tempest mockup configuration being finished in various schemes and nationalities markings also gifted during similar presentations, eg. Saudi, Sweden, etc. :)

There are a number of contracted vendors for such models depending on timescale, budget, display usage etc. ranging from larger bespoke resin pieces usually costing ×000 to smaller commercially produced pieces such as those noted above
 
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Slightly OT. although relating to above display model post (mods please remove if necessary?)
BAE. Systems had a number of models made via Lupa Models as promotional pieces for visiting trade expos etc. These 'cheap' models are gifted to dignitaries, defence officials, etc. and excess examples sold or given away (I think it can be safely assumed that most of them were pitched as public relations and not as serious sales proposals !)
The Bulgarian example is most likely legit as I have seen similar Lupa 48 scale models in Croatian, Serbian (with same numerical marking), Greek, Saudi, South Korean and Turkish markings (I posted some earlier in the thread) :)

In relation to the above, i do know of models of the Tempest mockup configuration being finished in various schemes and nationalities markings also gifted during similar presentations, eg. Saudi, Sweden, etc. :)

There are a number of vendors for such models depending on timescale, budget, display usage etc. ranging from larger bespoke resin pieces usually costing ×000 to smaller commercially produced pieces such as those noted above
Actually the "Serbian" model you show says Bulgaria on it right corner of the photo plus the Serbian and Bulgarian roundels aren't really the same thing I posted my photos after I saw your model actually
 

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I just found this inhouse typhoon model of the proposed variant for the Bulgarian air force unknown scale looks more like 1/48 in a pharmacy of all places
Not an inhouse model, that's a Lupa Model Eurofighter (notice the poor fidelity of the model with regards to the real aircraft, and also the base of the model). Somebody just put Bulgarian AF roundels on it, a poorly cut bort number and got himself a what-if Eurofighter.

More pics, if anyone wants to take a closer look at the details.
Thanks CiTrus90 I thought on first glimpse it looked legit thought the roundels look too small and that tactical number placement is making me scratch my head though the source claimed to me that it's inhouse model
In light of the recent developments, my bad Piko1 ;)
It was an official model, albeit not an inhouse one per se.
 
Typhoon in Halcon II livery at Paris Air Show

View: https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1670346566484348929


An eagle eyed Twitter poster has spotted something very interesting....

View: https://i.imgur.com/A1mBOkL.jpg


The Litening V pod is on a new pylon that is utilising the forward port semi-conformal missile carriage station. This means the centre pylon that has been used in the past is free for the normal external tank or a heavier store. A really useful development. Whether or not this is retrofittable to earlier Typhoon's would be interesting. Pretty sure the RAF would be interested.
 
Typhoon in Halcon II livery at Paris Air Show

View: https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1670346566484348929


An eagle eyed Twitter poster has spotted something very interesting....

View: https://i.imgur.com/A1mBOkL.jpg


The Litening V pod is on a new pylon that is utilising the forward port semi-conformal missile carriage station. This means the centre pylon that has been used in the past is free for the normal external tank or a heavier store. A really useful development. Whether or not this is retrofittable to earlier Typhoon's would be interesting. Pretty sure the RAF would be interested.
AMK kit is on it too
 
View: https://twitter.com/Rotorfocus/status/1671446525174579200


Obviously delivered with the total confidence you'd expect in a press briefing..

But....is he including Project Quadriga and Project Halcon I in the figures? Because they're already on contract...if he's not (I'm assuming, I think fairly, that the existing orders being completed for Kuwait and Qatar are not included) then they're going to have to land a fair few more....either entirely new countries (like Poland or India) or dig deep into the 'Potential Orders' in particular the German Tranche 4 and Saudi orders. 'Halcon III' and Malaysia I'd class as very unlikely...although, it has to be said, that rumours around a Turkey order are never ending.

So looping back....the list below is what I posted recently...the Egyptian order, EK variant to Germany and Halcon II only get you to 64 a/c....that leaves another 86-136 to find...dipping into the potential pile pulls up the Saudi and big German order...

EDIT: I've added Qatar in the 'Potential Orders', ahead of 'Halcon III' (because everything points to an F-35A and B order), as they apparently have an unexercised option from the existing contract for a further 12 aircraft.

Orders still being built...
28 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Kuwait
24 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Qatar
Total - 52 Typhoon

Ordered or 'due to be...' - On contract in Bold
38 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Germany under Project Quadriga

24 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Egypt - Not ordered yet but must be close
15+ x Typhoon EK to Germany - Now called EK instead of ECR. Airbus has said is unlikely that just 15 will be ordered.
20 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Spain under Project Halcon, to replace oldest EF-18
25 x Typhoon 4 to Spain under Project Halcon 2, to replace some of the remaining EF-18 (64 in total remaining, plus 13 AV-8B+).
Total - 122+ Typhoon, including new EK variant

Potential Orders...in order of probability...
50 (up to) x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Germany to replace non-nuclear Tornado - Moved to potential as unclear what Germany is up to...the impact of inflation on the German one off budget increase has caused issues, still highly likely though...
48-72 x Typhoon Tranche 3 to Saudi Arabia - still in the works allegedly, but very quiet.. - Added in 72 as increased buy has been mentioned. Large Saudi delegation recently at Warton as well...
12x Typhoon to Qatar - Qatar have an option on an additional 12 a/c from their current contract
25 x Typhoon Tranche 4 to Spain - Potential for another 25 under a 'Project Halcon III', probably won't happen though, more likely F-35.
12-24 x Typhoon to Malaysia - An ongoing saga... since the 2000's. The MRCA requirement. However, Malaysia has had issues with SU-30MKI reliability and their concerns will only increase post Ukraine war, FA-18D is also, generally, on the way out. They can't afford to be an orphan operator for long post 2030 with 8 a/c. Issues around EU palm oil ban, but the UK being out of the EU could help...either way its a slow burner...still serious finance issues. I think they're unlikely to go Russian or Chinese, KF-21 likely frontrunner after the recent TA-50 win for S.Korea in the LCA competition, however that is mired in the usual corruption allegations...
Total - 147-183 x Typhoon (assumed all new Turkish production and 50 to Germany)

Rumours...old and new
20+ x Typhoon Tranche 1 to Chile - Ex-RAF aircraft. Can't see it myself, but still rate it higher than Turkey.
24-48 x Typhoon to Turkey - Probably cobblers, 'sources' have said '2 Sqn's' Or 48 Tranche 3A.
? x Typhoon Tranche 1 (second hand) to Serbia - a very distant possibility, probably no more than 12-16. Unlikely given current developments.
? x Typhoon Tranche 1 (second hand) to Indonesia - a exceptionally distant possibility, probably no more than 12-16. These were the Austrian Typhoon Tranche 1. However, indications are that Austria intends to retain until 2030 and replace with F-35A (if the US will allow them...).

What no-one is talking about but they should...
Gifting all Tranche 1 Typhoon to Ukraine in the medium term...smart move all round, allows Ukraine to replace their SU-27 fleet with a high end fighter, ties in Ukraine with the West, obvious defence and deterrence in that part of the world. And selfishly...guarantees maintenance and upgrade contracts for 20 years onwards on c100 potentially redundant airframes...all could be upgraded to the CAPTOR AESA front end proposed by Leonardo and other limited upgrades that would keep them credible for the remainder of their airframe lives (all will have at least half of their airframe life remaining at time of disposal).

Realistically...
I think there will definitely be at least 160 new build Typhoon (excluding the Kuwaiti and Qatari ones that are already being built and delivered). But it could reach 240 with a following wind. Any more than that would be a massive bonus....and a big surprise.
 
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The Litening V pod is on a new pylon that is utilising the forward port semi-conformal missile carriage station. This means the centre pylon that has been used in the past is free for the normal external tank or a heavier store. A really useful development. Whether or not this is retrofittable to earlier Typhoon's would be interesting. Pretty sure the RAF would be interested.

The pod FoV looks to be a bit restricted.
 

QinetiQ successfully conducts inaugural flight test with fitted fast jet radome​

08/08/2023

In partnership with BAE, QinetiQ’s Airborne Technology Demonstrator delivers landmark trial of future radar and sense integration capabilities.​

RJ100 with combat aircraft nose system (fast jet radome) installed

QinetiQ’s Airborne Technology Demonstrator (ATD) in partnership with BAE Systems, underpinned by the Long Term Partnering Agreement with the MOD, has conducted a flight test with the combat aircraft nose system (fast jet radome) installed onto the RJ100, paving the way to future radar and sensor integration capability. This will enable the ATD to support a breadth of future programmes, as the aircraft expands its offering as the most capable flying testbed available in the UK today to support a variety of technology developments in the sector, and will now become a core T3E capability offering under the LTPA.
The flight also represents the first major Ministry of Defence (MOD) trial conducted under Category 1 Flight Test and is the first trial of its kind in the UK for 30 years. The addition of the radome is an exciting development in UK flight test capability and builds on QinetiQ’s Aviation Engineering Centre (AEC) exceptional track-record in aircraft design and modification, a key T3E offering under the LTPA.
Using an RJ100 airframe, the addition of the radome is just the latest in a series of modifications to this platform. Transformed into a flying laboratory and classroom, the ATD provides power and data backbones and multiple flexible workstations to enable research and development projects to be quickly and easily integrated.
A bespoke, modular multi-role capability that meets the requirements of both military and civil customers, the ATD supports cost-effective specialist training, experimentation, air carriage, and test and evaluation (T&E) activities. The aircraft is purpose built to simplify the route of getting technology under development into airborne environment.
Nic Anderson, Chief Executive UK Defence, QinetiQ: Building on QinetiQ’s Aviation Engineering Centre’s exceptional track record in aircraft design and modification, the ATD represents an exciting development in UK flight test capability. Working with BAE Systems in collaboration to support the development of future sensors and technology is a great demonstration of our expertise in aviation engineering, airworthiness and test and evaluation.
Steve Wynd, Engineering Director – Air Sector, BAE Systems: Using a flying test bed in this way allows us to much more rapidly test, develop and prove new digital technologies, with particular focus on Model Based Systems Engineering. We’re really excited in the potential this provides and look forward to our continued collaboration with QinetiQ.


 
What could a possible Tranche 5 look like? What would be the new features because as it looks (i heard) atleast germany is still on track for them
 
Typhoon in Halcon II livery at Paris Air Show

View: https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1670346566484348929


An eagle eyed Twitter poster has spotted something very interesting....

View: https://i.imgur.com/A1mBOkL.jpg


The Litening V pod is on a new pylon that is utilising the forward port semi-conformal missile carriage station. This means the centre pylon that has been used in the past is free for the normal external tank or a heavier store. A really useful development. Whether or not this is retrofittable to earlier Typhoon's would be interesting. Pretty sure the RAF would be interested.

I was there too, my pic from the monday afternoon

1694894322355.png

And I saw one of the Ejercitio del Aire preparing for display, while I was up at Boeing chalet heres my pic in between waiting for the Embraer KC390 to finish its display

1694895071916.png



same mock up airframe as ILA Berlin previous year, my pics here

1694894662284.png

1694894687004.png
1694894710080.png

cheers
 
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Attended DSEI here at London Excel Centre and chuckled to myself and cracked joke with few of my contacts there to say there was a new V/STOL Eurofighter Typhoon lol as in landed perfectly outside the front entrance lol anyhow managed to sit in the cockpit and they were running a simulation in it anyhow, of new cockpit so here are my photos,


1694895368203.png
1694895543186.png

1694895581842.png
1694895607299.png

cheers
 
More detail on Halcon II. 25 additional Typhoon Tranche 4, on top of the already orderded 20 from Halcon I.

Pretty much nailed on totally now....the aircraft that cannot be named is F-35...

How F-35 is procured (Halcon III?), which variant/s and how many... is still utterly unclear...a reasonable assumption is around 30 a/c, some of which are F-35B...

View: https://twitter.com/GarethJennings3/status/1701880187510571515



Text from Spanish Government - Council of Ministers

The total budget of the program is 673.4 million euros, broken down between 2023 and 2027.

  • Increase in limits of the Falcon Program:
  • Acquisition of 25 new weapons systems: Currently, the C.15M aircraft fleet is about to begin the process of decommissioning, scheduled for around 2030, so it is necessary to proceed with its replacement. Therefore, the acquisition of 25 new EF2000 aircraft, engines and associated mission support systems is required. To this will be added an initial logistics package and ML2 maintenance level and two high-fidelity simulation systems including their infrastructure.
  • New needs of the 1st phase of the Program: Because certain needs could not be financed at the beginning of the Halcón Program, it is necessary to update their amount to obtain the necessary funds to raise its financial ceiling through the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) 6.
    The total budget of the program is 4,593.6 million euros, broken down between the years 2023 and 2035.
  • Increase in limits of the Eurofighter III Program (modernization and acquisition of new capabilities).
  • Due to the evolution of the EF-2000 Program, it is necessary to carry out a financial reprogramming, with the purpose of obtaining the necessary funds to raise the financial ceiling of the Program and allow the needs related to the development and modernization activities of new aircraft capabilities to be covered. and motor, collected in the international environment, under the protection of Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) 7.

The total budget of the program is 1.4 million euros broken down over five years, between 2023 and 2027.
 
I suppose you mean 1.4 billion €? 25 A/C isn't much to equip two wings. That's a bit of a curiosity for me.
 
Be interesting to see if this goes anywhere...

View: https://twitter.com/olivernmoody/status/1706682331690369050


Article Text

Rishi Sunak has privately urged the German chancellor to unlock a flagship delivery of Eurofighter Typhoon combat jets to Saudi Arabia, The Times understands.
The prime minister has put himself at the centre of a concerted lobbying campaign to persuade Germany to approve the sale of the 48 jets, which is likely to carry a price tag of well over £5 billion and has been identified as a strategically vital interest for Britain.
The UK is believed to have threatened to use a long-established legal clause to try and cut Germany out of the order altogether amid intense disputes within the ruling coalition in Berlin.

The Typhoon was developed from the middle of the 1980s by a consortium of defence companies including BAE Systems from Britain and counterparts in Germany, Italy and Spain, under the aegis of Nato. This means Berlin has a veto over any future sales.

About 5,000 jobs at BAE factories and a further 15,000 around the UK still depend on the Typhoon programme, which contributes roughly £1.4 billion a year to the British economy, according to a report published by the company last year.
Saudi Arabia has already bought 72 of the aircraft and five years ago it signed a memorandum of understanding with the UK to acquire a further 48.
The deal later stalled as the UK and Germany suspended arms exports to the country because of its involvement in the civil war in Yemen, where airstrikes by a Saudi-led coalition are alleged to have killed thousands of civilians.

The Typhoon was developed by a consortium of defence companies from Nato member states, which means that sales can be blocked by Berlin.
In recent months the prospects of a sale have been revived following a UN-brokered ceasefire in the conflict. In July, however, Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor, caused consternation in London by announcing that Germany would not approve the delivery in the foreseeable future.
In response Britain has put Germany under intense diplomatic pressure to relent, according to officials.
The UK believes the sale is important for the financial health of its defence industry and several thousand jobs at BAE factories, notably at Samlesbury and Warton in Lancashire. It also hopes that Saudi Arabia will invest in the Tempest programme, a British-Italian-Japanese project to develop a next-generation fighter jet.
Last month Sunak is said to have raised the issue in a telephone call with Scholz. Sources say Scholz replied that he understood the UK’s position but had difficulty winning over some of his coalition partners.
That same week Sir Tim Barrow, the UK national security advisor, is understood to have made a robust case for the deal at a meeting in the German defence ministry. A British diplomat was also dispatched to try and talk around leading opponents in the Bundestag.
The Britons pointed to a clause in the original Eurofighter contracts that provides for their components to be manufactured elsewhere if one of the members of the consortium blocks the export of the jets.
The possibility of legal action was first reported by Handelsblatt, a German business newspaper. However, the UK is believed to have reservations about getting stuck in a court case that could drag on for years and poison the Anglo-German relationship with no certainty of success. German officials also believe the underlying legal arguments are weak.
Scholz’s government is divided over the Eurofighter question. The chancellor, his inner circle and several other figures in his ruling coalition are thought to favour giving the delivery the green light. Last year Scholz approved licences for the sale of Eurofighter spare parts to Saudi Arabia in a move that was seen as testing the waters for a broader shift in policy.

A German source said a new draft law contained a provision for exports of multinational weapons systems such as the Typhoon to be put to a vote between Germany and the partner countries involved, with each commanding a weight proportional to its share of the added value in the project. This could allow Britain and other contributors to override German objections.
The source said Germany’s participation in next-generation projects such as a Franco-German jet fighter and battle tank was at stake and it risked being frozen out in future.
However, any such reform is likely to get bogged down in heavy infighting in the Bundestag. Scholz’s Green party allies will be crucial. Robert Habeck, the Green vice chancellor and business minister responsible for arms export policy, is said to be open-minded.
Yet other influential figures in his party remain strongly opposed to selling weapons to regimes accused of human rights abuses or war crimes, referring to a commitment along these lines in the Scholz government’s founding coalition agreement.
Sara Nanni, the Green party’s lead MP on military affairs and a member of the Bundestag’s defence committee, said the UK, France and Germany’s other close defence partners should pay more heed to the chance that their weapons might be deployed in breach of international law or against their strategic interests.
She noted that in the past Germany and some of its allies had considered “normalising” arms exports to Russia.
“The exports from all other high-value European [defence] exporters will also endanger Germany’s security if they are sent to problematic customers without Germany’s agreement,” Nanni told Europäische Sicherheit & Technik, a specialist military journal.
A UK government spokesman said Britain was “working closely” on the Eurofighter issue with its counterparts in Germany, Italy and Spain.
“Last year we welcomed Germany’s decision to extend export licences for parts for Saudi Arabia’s existing Eurofighter aircraft for three years,” the spokesman said. “The UK remains steadfast in its commitment to our strategic defence relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”
A German government spokesman said: “As a matter of principle the federal government does not comment on matters of internal co-ordination.”

Analysis: Why is No 10 so keen on this deal?

Much is riding on the outcome of Britain’s efforts to persuade Germany to give up its opposition to delivering a consignment of Eurofighter Typhoon jets to Saudi Arabia (Oliver Moody writes).
The implications of Berlin’s decision will go beyond the order for 48 combat aircraft — potentially influencing the future of the British defence industry and the readiness of Germany’s allies to work with it on several sensitive next-generation weapons projects.
For the UK government, it is an opportunity to secure 5,000 jobs and more than a billion pounds of investment at the Lancashire factories of BAE Systems, which is understood to have been identified as a strategically important national champion.
Britain is also keen on bringing Saudi Arabia into the Tempest programme, under which the UK, Italy and Japan aim to develop an advanced new stealth fighter jet by 2035.
For Berlin it is a question of the delicate balance between values and realpolitik in an increasingly unstable and threatening world. Olaf Scholz, the chancellor, famously responded to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine by declaring a Zeitenwende, or “watershed moment”, in Germany’s security and foreign policy.
However, the government’s arms export rules remain more or less as strict as they were before 2022. This has long been a source of frustration to the UK and other partner countries that have spent a good deal of time and money on developing big-ticket weapons systems, such as the Eurofighter with German involvement, and are keen to ensure that these projects pay for themselves.
Several cutting-edge arms programmes are at stake, including the French, German and Spanish future combat air system jet project — a putative rival to the Tempest — and the Franco-German main combat ground system, which is a successor to the current generation of Leopard 2 and Leclerc battle tanks. Both have stalled and are at risk of further delay or cancellation amid ructions between Berlin and Paris.
Those in favour of keeping Germany’s arms export rules tight, including most of the Green Party, say this is as much a practical matter as a moral one: as Russia has shown, today’s tentative negotiating partner could be tomorrow’s adversary.
Nor, they argue, can Germany afford to compromise on its principles towards autocratic regimes that have flouted human rights, as Saudi Arabia did during the Yemeni civil war.
But Scholz and other senior politicians in his coalition are believed to be acutely aware that this is precisely what some of their allies expect as the price of Germany’s credibility and reliability as a military ally.
 
Handelsblatt Article Text

Eurofighter for Saudi Arabia: British put Germany under pressure​

Saudi Arabia wants to buy European fighter jets again. Chancellor Scholz has ruled this out. But Great Britain really wants the deal - and is threatening to force Germany out of the project.
Martin Greive , Martin Murphy , Julian Olk , Frank Specht and Torsten RieckeSeptember 25, 2023 - 1:08 p.m
The renewed debate about the Eurofighter for Saudi Arabia is an expression of the fundamental discussion about the new German arms policy.

Berlin, London. According to Handelsblatt information, Great Britain wants to force a new delivery of Eurofighter fighter jets to Saudi Arabia against Germany's wishes . Among other things, the British are putting pressure on the federal government with a clause that, in London's opinion, can force Germany out of the project. The Handelsblatt learned this from industry and government circles.
Saudi Arabia ordered 48 new Eurofighters a good six years ago. The European joint project is being manufactured in Great Britain, and Spain and Italy are also involved. Germany is building at Airbus in Augsburg and in Manching a part of the aircraft fuselage, MTUAero Engines manufactures parts of the engine. Overall, Germany has a share of almost 30 percent in the Eurofighter project.
Eurofighter deliveries to Saudi Arabia have already caused considerable discussion in the federal government on several occasions. The renewed conflict is a further expression of the fundamental discussion about the new German arms policy after the “turning point” proclaimed by Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD).

In competition with Russia and China, the West wants to attract new partners to its side. Arms deals are a good vehicle for this. And the Saudi kingdom is becoming increasingly important in the global game of powers.

But is it compatible to provide military means to a state that is waging war in Yemen and whose head of government, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, is believed to have ordered the murder of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi?

Eurofighter for Saudi Arabia: Central question of German arms policy​

Scholz gave a seemingly clear answer to this in the summer. “It is unlikely that any decision will be made regarding Eurofighter deliveries to Saudi Arabia,” said the Chancellor in July on the sidelines of the NATO summit in Vilnius, Lithuania. It was later said that the agreement would apply until the end of the legislative period.
The Saudi head of government and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman wants new Eurofighter jets.
Photo: via REUTERS
But in doing so, Germany has antagonized its European partners even further. The Federal Republic is being criticized in other European countries. Berlin is accused of having an overly restrictive arms policy.
According to federal government circles, London really wants the deal with the Saudi kingdom. “The pressure is immense.” When asked by Handelsblatt, the British government replied: “The United Kingdom remains steadfast in its commitment to our strategic defense relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”

The contractual clause in question should now be the deciding factor for the British. When Great Britain, Germany, Spain and Italy agreed to jointly produce the Eurofighter a few years ago, the passage was anchored, report government and industry insiders.
>> Read here: When Scholz initially ruled out the Eurofighter delivery
According to a declaration of intent from 1986, “none of the partner nations prevent the sale or approval of the sale of the program's products or systems to third parties,” the federal government replied to a small question from the left-wing faction in 2018.
But according to insiders, the clause is even more far-reaching: If one partner refuses an export permit, another partner can produce the required parts themselves, which would previously have come from the country with the refusal attitude. The objector could thus be forced out of Eurofighter production.

International and domestic conflict potential

The potential for conflict is not only great internationally, but also within the federal government. The SPD , Greens and FDP agreed in their coalition agreement in 2021 not to allow arms exports to states “as long as they can be proven to be directly involved in the Yemen war”. At the time, Saudi Arabia led the alliance supporting the Yemeni government against the Houthi rebels.
When the Saudis again asked for spare parts for their 72 existing Eurofighters, the Greens and parts of the SPD in particular pushed for the delivery to be refused. However, in September 2022 - shortly before Chancellor Scholz 's trip to Riyadh - the government allowed exports despite major protests from the respective party base because corresponding contractual obligations existed.
Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD) rejected the Eurofighter delivery - but that did not end the discussion.

The discussed delivery of 48 new Eurofighters to Saudi Arabia had already caused intensive discussions in the federal government in the summer. There has been a ceasefire in Yemen since April 2022. In Chancellor Scholz's opinion, the export ban to Saudi Arabia no longer applies. Nevertheless, he allowed the Greens and the critics in the SPD to reject the renewed Eurofighter delivery.
And so those responsible in Berlin respond to pressure from the British by referring to the Chancellor's statements that the contractual clause still applies. However, attempts are being made to downplay their role. It only appears in declarations of intent, not in the actual contract. According to lawyers, the passage is therefore not legally binding. “So it’s not as easy as the British make it out to be,” says a government insider.

>> Read here: “It’s not enough to say we don’t play with the dirty kids,” says the Defense Minister
Another says that although the British applied enormous pressure, they were aware of the possible damage to European solidarity. “Treaty constellations from decades ago are not decisive.” London recently moved closer again after leaving the European Union in 2020.

New productions would have to be set up​

Displacing the Germans from the project would not be trivial either, because new production lines might then have to be set up for the required parts, which would be very time-consuming given a German share of almost 30 percent. New components would also first have to go through a certification process again, it was said in Berlin. The responsible Federal Ministry of Economics responded to an official request and did not comment on the content of internal documents.

But none of those involved in the federal government are completely relaxed about the debate. This is also because Germany has made general agreements with several European countries to simplify joint arms exports.

Great Britain wants to join this round, reports a government insider. However, this could mean that Germany is no longer allowed to block the Eurofighter delivery to Saudi Arabia. The federal government is therefore working intensively on finding an exception for the Eurofighter in order to keep it out of the regulation.
 
Interesting about that export clause. I wonder how confident France is in Germany not blocking SCAF sales if it's managed to successfully block Typhoon sales for years despite signing up to that.
 
I think all these discussions have the only merit to sideline the fundamentals behind Europe investments in military industry: freedom against tyrans. Amazing that Germany has to provide so much justifications, even after ordering extra Typhoon a/c that they don´t need.

Chancellor should take that excuse to cancel those.
 
Interesting about that export clause. I wonder how confident France is in Germany not blocking SCAF sales if it's managed to successfully block Typhoon sales for years despite signing up to that.

Given past and current behaviours from Germany I expect there are exceptionally robust clauses in the contract around exports, workshare based on orders (i.e. to prevent the long legal battles around compensation around Typhoon workshare and the A400M debacle..) plus detail around political holdups and funding milestones. I expect the French to be utterly brutal around those clauses. German politicians in the future will probably find themselves in hot contractual water if they attempt any funny business....

Amazing that Germany has to provide so much justifications, even after ordering extra Typhoon a/c that they don´t need.

They're needed to replace the earlier Tranche 1 (that hopefully end up in Ukraine) but most of all to keep Manching going and preserve the industrial base until SCAF gets going....
 
I should think that Airbus losing it's Eurofighter share would pretty much be a death-knell for their participation in SCAF. After all Airbus does little enough military work as it is, hard for them to look Dassault in the eye and say that they are at the cutting edge assembling bits of A400s... and hard for the politicians to look their French counterparts in the eye and say they won't block exports when Dassault has a track record (like BAE) of following the sound of the money regardless of which grubby hands are rustling the notes.

In practical terms, how likely is it that the other airframe and engine partners can pick up Airbus' and MTU production for just 48 airframes? All that additional jigging and tooling won't be cheap, I suppose BAE/UKplc hopes to put the tab on the Saudi bill but they might not want to pay a premium for some petty squabbles between two European governments.
Certainly if the Typhoon deal doesn't go ahead it puts a lot of extra pressure on getting a slice of GCAP - different partners and different politics there though. Loose both and Saudi is probably heading to Washington or Paris with its Petrodollars and shopping lists (I could imagine Dassault cooking up a Franco-Saudi deal cutting out Airbus), or they are going to have to build their own industry from scratch if they want to be free of US interference.
 
Isn't Germanys requirments Just that:

"The conditions for those weapons sales are that the weapons must not be utilised in Yemen and must not be used in relation to potential human rights violations, Hebestreit added."

Make a contract where its writen that won't happen and good is. Just offer the German some WD40 Schmiergeld xD
 
Yes. There is a run to be the most facilitating partners b/w BAe and Dassault when neither applies to European military equipment rules.*
That's pretty malignant for Europe.

Many weapons are sold with restriction or maintenance measure that will relatively quickly results in the impossibility to be used on a non agreed manner.

The lack of imagination today is flabbergasting.


*Dassault CEO the other day nearly referenced France as a non aligned country during an interview...
 

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