F-35 is a compromised bomb truck which main advantage is stealth and data sensor fusion. Manoeuvrability and performance may be much less relevant than in the gun and Sidewinder days, yet fact is Typhoon and Rafale bury the F-35 in that regard.
In terms of raw manoeuvrability yes but 360deg DAS for spotting enemy planes in a dogfight scenario is definitely another major advantage even there.F-35 is a compromised bomb truck which main advantage is stealth and data sensor fusion. Manoeuvrability and performance may be much less relevant than in the gun and Sidewinder days, yet fact is Typhoon and Rafale bury the F-35 in that regard.
Typhoon has substantial superiority in BVR specs - energy state advantage, positioning advantage, break off/evasion advantage.In terms of raw manoeuvrability yes but 360deg DAS for spotting enemy planes in a dogfight scenario is definitely another major advantage even there.F-35 is a compromised bomb truck which main advantage is stealth and data sensor fusion. Manoeuvrability and performance may be much less relevant than in the gun and Sidewinder days, yet fact is Typhoon and Rafale bury the F-35 in that regard.
Typhoon has substantial superiority in BVR specs - energy state advantage, positioning advantage, break off/evasion advantage.In terms of raw manoeuvrability yes but 360deg DAS for spotting enemy planes in a dogfight scenario is definitely another major advantage even there.F-35 is a compromised bomb truck which main advantage is stealth and data sensor fusion. Manoeuvrability and performance may be much less relevant than in the gun and Sidewinder days, yet fact is Typhoon and Rafale bury the F-35 in that regard.
In WVR - F-35 holds its own quite well both in maneuverability and due to DAS/IRST. Slight irony of the moment - while F-35 club tends to despise WVR, F-35 has a surprising degree of optimization precisely for this mode. Arguably, way more than Typhoon does.
Spherical EODAS+helmet combination, maneuverable high AOA setup with excellent nose authority, gun in place. Good acceleration below M=1. Quite compact for its weight.I can't see a "surprising degree of optimisation for WVR" though
It has some nice features that will work well against non-stealth jets, but against the F-35, it will be seen first and hence get fired upon first, in a theoretical match.Typhoon has substantial superiority in BVR specs - energy state advantage, positioning advantage, break off/evasion advantage.
In a theoretical match against each other (or against an opponent of inferior informational capability) - yes, ambush is a king. Otherwise, F-35 qualities really call for something more BWR A2A-focused to cover it, and take from it the missions it is just not good at (everything that involves speed&energy).It has some nice features that will work well against non-stealth jets, but against the F-35, it will be seen first and hence get fired upon first, in a theoretical match.Typhoon has substantial superiority in BVR specs - energy state advantage, positioning advantage, break off/evasion advantage.
This is true.Spherical EODAS+helmet combination, maneuverable high AOA setup with excellent nose authority, gun in place. Good acceleration below M=1. Quite compact for its weight.I can't see a "surprising degree of optimisation for WVR" though
Not the worst set to play with? Esp. when compared to its supersonic performance, which is honestly meh (below average for 4th gen).
Says who? Not the pilots.F-35 is a compromised bomb truck
Here is an example of how this charade of job claims is counter-productive:
UK says Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems win nearly $200 mln contract, to create 140 jobs
Lockheed Martin Corp and BAE Systems Plc won a F-35 jet maintenance support contract worth 161 million pounds ($200 million), creating 140 jobs in Britain, the country's Ministry of Defence said on Tuesday.www.reuters.com
I think they are still recent enough to not be declassified and into the archives. "Thick wing" is better description than "big wing" but there were a bunch of variations around Typhoon and Tornado done for FOA/FOAS under P151, P148. BAe drew a lot of concepts.Several years ago there was some talk about a "big wing" Typhoon. I have never found a more detailed description or even a sketch. Does anyone have more information about it?
With 50deg official AoA, with (probably) moderate yaw available for most of this range, that's huge...
Subsonic the Super Hornet out accelerates a Su-27 and is close to the Su-35With 50deg official AoA, with (probably) moderate yaw available for most of this range, that's huge...
1) High-AoA capability is but one measure of maneuverability.
2) It's certainly not the only one deciding the outcome of a fight.
3) AoA limit =/= stall AoA.
4) On some of the aircraft you mention, the AoA limit is a soft one (Su-27).
Case in point: the Flanker is impressive not so much because of it's high-AoA capability (as you say, at least the Hornet has it beat in that regard) but due to the fact that this does not come (as it does in the F/A-18...) at the expense of other areas of performance. It'll out-accelerate, out-climb and (at speed and altitude) out-turn the Hornet, giving the F-15 and F-16 a run for their money in these respects. It's not the best in every regard but, save for relatively sluggish roll-response due to the wide engine separation not doing it any favours, the Su-27 just doesn't have any glaring weaknesses for a contemporary opponent to exploit. A competent F-16 pilot can force a less experienced Hornet driver into a situation where he has a clear performance advantage, and vice versa. That's a lot harder to achieve against a Flanker.
I’m not posting the super hornet manual but it can be found online. The Su-27 figures come from this report.Fun fact:
In terms of subsonic acceleration, Super hornet can easily out-accelerate Su-27/30, and is very close to Su-35.
Su-27, Low altitude, 18920 kg flying wight, accelerate from 600km/h to 1100km/h in 15 seconds. Average acceleration is 9.26m/s^2.
Superhornet, 17241 kg flying weight (definitely more ordnance than a 18920 kg Su-27), accelerate:
from 360knots to 420 knots, in 3 seconds, average 10.28m/m^s
from 420knots to 480 knots, in 4 seconds, average 7.71m/m^s
from 480knots to 520 knots, in 2 seconds, average 10.28m/m^s
from 520knots to 550 knots, in 1 second, average 15.43m/m^s
(From super hornet block 2 flight manual, performance data, Edition Sep. 2008)
There was a quote from some test pilot who'd flown both that the Typhoon's maximum climb rate was 25% better than the F-16's.I’m not posting the super hornet manual but it can be found online. The Su-27 figures come from this report.
The super hornet for all its faults has impressive subsonic acceleration. The 402 powered legacy hornet is supposedly on par with an Eagle. MIG-29 and F-16 are in a class of their own, F-35 is supposedly on par with a block 50 F-16 subsonic.
The Typhoon is probably the best of the lot though I do wonder if it’s subsonic acceleration matches the Viper I have no doubt it’s supersonic is superior.
Yea, but if I recall correctly he was Scandinavian and this was an F-16a or MLU. The GE Vipers and the 229 ones have much better subsonic acceleration. Comparing the F-16 block 15 SAC and the HAF block 50 manual it can easily beat an F-16a’s acceleration by at least that amount. I don’t doubt the Typhoon will crush it above mach 1, and maybe this guy was talking about C models IDK, Just the EJ200 design specs makes me wonder.There was a quote from some test pilot who'd flown both that the Typhoon's maximum climb rate was 25% better than the F-16's.I’m not posting the super hornet manual but it can be found online. The Su-27 figures come from this report.
The super hornet for all its faults has impressive subsonic acceleration. The 402 powered legacy hornet is supposedly on par with an Eagle. MIG-29 and F-16 are in a class of their own, F-35 is supposedly on par with a block 50 F-16 subsonic.
The Typhoon is probably the best of the lot though I do wonder if it’s subsonic acceleration matches the Viper I have no doubt it’s supersonic is superior.
Could it be for a demonstrator instead? Like the Chinese J-10C TVC?At long last, looks like the Typhoon will finally be getting thrust vectoring capability.
I'm afraid thats the same unit from years ago...they've just dug it out again. Fills the display stand up though...At long last, looks like the Typhoon will finally be getting thrust vectoring capability.
It already is a 'strike' Eurofighter...Storm Shadow, Brimstone, Paveway II & IV, JDAM, Litening pods, KEPD350, Marte ER and Spear (on the way)...with thousands of actual combat missions under its belt...If they are serious about the Typhoon becoming a SEAD platform or some kind of strike Eurofighter they really do need on or the other.
That appears to be a rather nonsensical comment. Please explain your reasoning re: the Eurofighter.Thrust vectoring or AMK will be needed for large asymmetric loads. If they are serious about the Typhoon becoming a SEAD platform or some kind of strike Eurofighter they really do need on or the other.
BAE is also envisaging that partner nations will adopt the Aerodynamic Modification Kit (AMK), first developed by Airbus in Germany in 2015 to provide improved maneuverability and longitudinal stability for the canardequipped aircraft.
According to Mallery-Blythe, introduction of the AMK can make it quicker and easier to integrate new weapons, a costly and time-consuming process on theplatform, and could also pave the way for carriage of asymmetric stores.
I’d be very interested in an increased thrust typhoon.Iirc, upgrade to the EJ200 is indeed part of what is being researched under LTE program, though afaik those improvements are focused around thrust and fuel economy rather than vectored thrust. I'm doubtful to say the least if any of the major Eurofighter operators are interested in TVC in the first place.
Allegedly the TVC developed was assessed as helping fuel economy.I'm doubtful to say the least if any of the major Eurofighter operators are interested in TVC in the first place.
Trimming drag in certain flight regime while adding weight which adds drags accross the board. I think the trimming drag part is mainly for increased kinetic performance in transonic flight not so much about fuel saving.Allegedly the TVC developed was assessed as helping fuel economy.
But what you'd save in fuel costs you'd pay ten times that in a new test programme across the entire flight envelope...
It was one of the marketing points for it, IIRC they were claiming 'up to' 7% fuel saving...I think the trimming drag part is mainly for increased kinetic performance in transonic flight not so much about fuel saving.