Drones and how to kill them?

Now heres an unexpected one amongst all the shoot downs of hermes and and hq9s recently,its one of turkeys new big 2 engined drones,the Aksungur,getting shot down over kurdistan.
Unfortunately we dont really get to see what does it.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1795481613406540107
Its some excellent footage tho,you can actually see the drones airframe flexing before it literally comes apart.
 
Net guns were one of the first counter-drone technologies proposed, going back to at least 2016. Are the Russians really only just catching up now?
 
DWG said:
Net guns were one of the first counter-drone technologies proposed, going back to at least 2016. Are the Russians really only just catching up now?
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Could be only recently they're feeling the extent of the problem. Individual squads can't be packing their own SAM systems and the drone situation in Ukraine is down to the personal level. I don't think people saw that coming so soon.
 
sferrin said:
Could be only recently they're feeling the extent of the problem. Individual squads can't be packing their own SAM systems and the drone situation in Ukraine is down to the personal level. I don't think people saw that coming so soon.
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Would have to agree with that.

But a shotgun is a short ranged system, 50m or so. Maybe stretching it to 100m with some fancy wads/shot cups like Federal Flight Control.

Works for FPV kamikazes, not so effective against anything with a standoff weapon.
 
Forest Green said:
www.twz.com

Does The U.S. Need To Be Building Hardened Aircraft Shelters For Its Combat Aircraft?

The US military and Congress are increasingly butting heads over aircraft shelters even as threats, especially from drones, grow.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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While the usual answer to any headline that comes in the form of a question is "NO", this is probably the exception that proves the rule.

But let's make them bigger than the 44ft wingspan fighter HAS in Europe this time. Let's go ahead and future-proof a bit, and make them big enough to stick something the size of an SR-71 or A-5 in them, 56ft wingspan.
 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1WJb2UyVXs

www.hartpunkt.de

Minenräumpanzer und Kurzstrecken-Luftverteidigungssystem: FFG zeigt in Paris gepanzerte Innovationen

In der kommenden Woche in Paris auf der Eurosatory, der weltgrößten Messe rund um Verteidigungstechnologien, neueste Trends und technische Entwicklungen vorgestellt. Auch das mittelständische Unternehmen FFG ist dabei und wird nach eigenen Angaben verschiedene Innovationen im Bereich geschützter...
www.hartpunkt.de www.hartpunkt.de
https://twitter.com/x/status/1801301953395204488
View: https://x.com/JonHawkes275/status/1801301953395204488
 
F.L. said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1799821762005533096
View: https://x.com/TheAviationist/status/1799821762005533096?t=AidTtTVHvZ4vuX8cYqUVVQ&s=19

View attachment 731353
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If you are using a full sized aircraft to hunt drones, I wonder if it might make sense to use auto-aimed turreted weapons. Something like the AM-180 wouldn't weigh much but would spit out a high rate of fire of .22LR rounds... terrible against most targets bu just spiffy against drones. And it would be cheap.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si7Q6BCPBYg
 
Orionblamblam said:
If you are using a full sized aircraft to hunt drones, I wonder if it might make sense to use auto-aimed turreted weapons. Something like the AM-180 wouldn't weigh much but would spit out a high rate of fire of .22LR rounds... terrible against most targets bu just spiffy against drones. And it would be cheap.
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Rimfire ammunition isn't reliable enough. At least not if you're using the round being fired to power the weapon. It'd be acceptable for a chain gun type weapon.

Honestly, fitting it with a P90 5.7x28mm and 50rd magazines would probably be best.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Rimfire ammunition isn't reliable enough. At least not if you're using the round being fired to power the weapon. It'd be acceptable for a chain gun type weapon.

Honestly, fitting it with a P90 5.7x28mm and 50rd magazines would probably be best.
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The 5.7 and 22lr are such small bullet weights I have a hard time seeing them being effective at more than 10M being fired from a moving full sized aircraft. Wind and such is going to play havoc on those small bullets trajectories.

If you made a dedicated small anti drone drone fitted with a P90 or similar sure I can see a use case then.
 
Sineva said:
Yeah,its a weird one isnt it?
With all of the potential anti usv weapons they`ve got but they`re using [I`m assuming] a guy with a machine gun.:rolleyes:
Heres a Ka-29 with rockets and atgms
Kamov_Ka-29TB%2C_Ukraine_-_Navy_JP7205123.jpg
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I think a Ka-29 was defending against naval drones near Crimea when Russian air defence made another unfortunate mistake.

www.twz.com

Russian Navy Ka-29 Assault Helicopter Downed Amid Massive Ukrainian Drone Attack

The helicopter was shot down as Ukraine sent scores of drones to strike Crimea and Russia's Krasnodar region on targets ranging from oil facilities to an airfield.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

One influential Russian source claims the Helix was taken out by friendly fire, during a search for Ukrainian uncrewed surface vessels (USVs). Another said it came during a massive aerial and USV attack that killed nearly 30 Russian troops in occupied Crimea and Krasnodar.
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“In Anapa, our own air defense shot down our own helicopter,” the Thirteenth Telegram channel, run by Russian soldier and milblogger Egor Guzenko, wrote.
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During its sweep for Ukrainian drone boats in the Black Sea, “one of our [Pantsir air defense systems] hit the helicopter,” the Thirteenth wrote, adding that four Russian troops were killed in the incident.
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Preliminary information indicated it was “due to a malfunction of the ‘friend or foe’ system,” he suggested. “I will not voice any versions, let counterintelligence and the investigation sort it out. Eternal memory to our soldiers.”
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Forest Green said:
I think a Ka-29 was defending against naval drones near Crimea when Russian air defence made another unfortunate mistake.

www.twz.com

Russian Navy Ka-29 Assault Helicopter Downed Amid Massive Ukrainian Drone Attack

The helicopter was shot down as Ukraine sent scores of drones to strike Crimea and Russia's Krasnodar region on targets ranging from oil facilities to an airfield.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
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Why am I not surprised?:rolleyes:
You would`ve thought by now that they`d have had their sh!t together.
 
Shoes31 said:
The 5.7 and 22lr are such small bullet weights I have a hard time seeing them being effective at more than 10M being fired from a moving full sized aircraft. Wind and such is going to play havoc on those small bullets trajectories.

If you made a dedicated small anti drone drone fitted with a P90 or similar sure I can see a use case then.
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I'm not expecting more than ~25m range out of the 5.7 version if moving relatively slowly.

And yes, more or less a big FPV racing drone with a pair of P90s on it is what I was picturing.
 
Sineva said:
Why am I not surprised?:rolleyes:
You would`ve thought by now that they`d have had their sh!t together.
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They're using USVs and UAVs simulataneously, and the UAVs flys at a similar speed to the helicopters, so when they get sent out to intercept the USVs, they risk being shot down.


Other interesting counter-drone stuff:

www.twz.com

What Is This Mystery Row Of Spheres In A Ukrainian Field?

Help us solve the mystery of this curious array that could be a military system or something else entirely, like an agricultural apparatus.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

breakingdefense.com

Air Force mobility fleet seeks on-board defenses against small drones - Breaking Defense

Air Mobility Command documents say they're interested counter-drone systems, including platforms that can operate near friendly aircraft, so as not to hypothetically accidentally jam or spoof a nearby vice president's plane.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
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GTX said:
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These C-sUAS systems will combine Rheinmetall's command and control system, Skymaster, and high-power guns with Lattice and open, modular and scalable hardware components including Anduril’s Sentry Tower, Wisp sensors and Anvil, its autonomous interceptor. By combining the unique capabilities of both companies, an unmatched layered solution for C-sUAS will be offered. Overall, the MoU aims to bring together the complementary skills of these two leading companies.
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www.asdnews.com

Rheinmetall and Anduril Join Forces to Develop the Most Soph

The Düsseldorf-based technology group Rheinmetall and the US company Anduril Industries signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) during Eurosatory in Paris, o
www.asdnews.com www.asdnews.com

Rheinmetall

Rheinmetall and Anduril join forces at Eurosatory to develop innovative drone defense systems for European markets.
www.rheinmetall.com www.rheinmetall.com
 
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Forest Green said:
They're using USVs and UAVs simulataneously, and the UAVs flys at a similar speed to the helicopters, so when they get sent out to intercept the USVs, they risk being shot down.


Other interesting counter-drone stuff:

www.twz.com

What Is This Mystery Row Of Spheres In A Ukrainian Field?

Help us solve the mystery of this curious array that could be a military system or something else entirely, like an agricultural apparatus.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

breakingdefense.com

Air Force mobility fleet seeks on-board defenses against small drones - Breaking Defense

Air Mobility Command documents say they're interested counter-drone systems, including platforms that can operate near friendly aircraft, so as not to hypothetically accidentally jam or spoof a nearby vice president's plane.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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i would say that those are hydraulic accumulator for an agricultural spray system. .
 
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www.defensenews.com

US Central Command to demo integrated counter drone sensors this fall

CENTCOM will stage a U.S.-based exercise in October focused on spotting UAS threats followed by a second demo in theater early next year.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com

www.twz.com

Built-In Counter-Drone Defenses Sought For Air Force Transports, Tankers

The USAF's Air Mobility Command says adding new drone defenses to its aircraft themselves is critical for future combat and routine operations.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

www.twz.com

Russia Jumps Into Purpose-Built Drone-Hunting Drone Weapons Space

The kamikaze drone is billed as the latest Russian effort to try and counter Ukrainian uncrewed aerial vehicles on the battlefield. The kamikaze drone is billed as the latest Russian effort to try and counter Ukrainian uncrewed aerial vehicles on the battlefield.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809197400239591495
View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1809197400239591495

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809305043033579984
View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1809305043033579984
 
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Orionblamblam said:
It seems expensive conventional SAMs might not be the right approach to dealing with drones. As drones become much smaller and *vastly* more numerous, attempting to take the out with missiles will become increasingly idiotic.
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It's why I think we're going to see dedicated "fighter quadcopters" or similar. In WW1, the plane started out as an artillery observer and intel platform, then the artillery observers started shooting at each other, then they started making dedicated fighters.
 
Scott Kenny said:
It's why I think we're going to see dedicated "fighter quadcopters" or similar.
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If so, only briefly. Soon enough there will be *swarms* of slaughterbots. You could easily deploy 10,000 of them from a van or an aircraft, each just smart enough to attack a single human. You won't defeat those with thrilling aerial dogfights by defensive slaughterbots, unless defensive drones are deployed in superior numbers. it might become necessary for each solider on a battlefield, and then every civilian *near* a conflict, to carry a backpack loaded with def-drones that launch on a split second notice and hover about you at a range of a few yards.

Advanced versions of quadcopters like this might carry a gram of Semtex, easily enough to perforate your noggin.

Screenshot 2024-07-12 at 20-12-28 Amazon.com Sky Viper Dash Nano Drone Everything Else.png


Twenty bucks just isn't that much for a reasonably reliable anti-individual weapon.
 
Orionblamblam said:
If so, only briefly. Soon enough there will be *swarms* of slaughterbots. You could easily deploy 10,000 of them from a van or an aircraft, each just smart enough to attack a single human. You won't defeat those with thrilling aerial dogfights by defensive slaughterbots, unless defensive drones are deployed in superior numbers. it might become necessary for each solider on a battlefield....
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Range will be the reason why defensive swarms can work.

If the launch platform is like, 5km from each other defense may be impossible, thus MAD is the likely result. However the natural response is to increase the range of the drones so you destroy the opponent launch platform first. At 30km the drones are significantly bigger and expensive so all defenses becomes more viable.

There will be a technological-environmental determined equilibrium in vehicle ranges, where offense and defense is in equilibrium: in which increasing the range means inability to cost effective penetrate defenses, while decreasing range means enemy offense can penetrate your own defenses before you can attack.

As for soldiers, they have no reason to be anywhere outside of tunnels when drone and other robotic warfare is developed, and they'd be removed if tunnel navigating robots are developed.
 

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