Dassault Rafale NEWS ONLY

Qatar will base 12 Rafale and 9 Mirage 2000 fighter jets besides four Boeing C-17A Globemaster III transport aircraft in Turkey for a period of five years for training purposes.
[...]
The deal has attracted concern from the Greek media. “If the agreement is confirmed, it needs a thorough analysis and interpretation by the Greek side, dealing with its potential consequences,” defensepoint.gr wrote today.

The Greek concern stems from the fact that it has ordered Rafale jets and the basing of similar aircraft in Turkey may give the latter some advantages. Greece has simmering differences with Ankara over control of the Eastern Mediterranean.
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TomcatViP said:
Qatar will base 12 Rafale and 9 Mirage 2000 fighter jets besides four Boeing C-17A Globemaster III transport aircraft in Turkey for a period of five years for training purposes.
[...]
The deal has attracted concern from the Greek media. “If the agreement is confirmed, it needs a thorough analysis and interpretation by the Greek side, dealing with its potential consequences,” defensepoint.gr wrote today.

The Greek concern stems from the fact that it has ordered Rafale jets and the basing of similar aircraft in Turkey may give the latter some advantages. Greece has simmering differences with Ankara over control of the Eastern Mediterranean.
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Dang. After "F-16 vs F-16" in the 90's, will we get "Rafale vs Rafale" in the 2020's ?
(note: could have been F-102 vs F-102 fifty years ago, too).
 
Wow, even the mighty Su-35 got jammed (and i didnt know Egypt has Su-35s.. their air force fleet is crazy with diversity.. )

i always felt that the Rafale had some good "guts". was hoping that some country would work with France (say India) and make a 5th gen aircraft using Rafale guts in a new gen air frame. it could work well.
 
Istres, France today : Hellenic Air Force, first Rafale handover ceremony

doureios.com

Tελετή παράδοσης του πρώτου Rafale ("401") στην Πολεμική Αεροπορία - Δούρειος Ίππος

Ο κ. Eric Trappier, Πρόεδρος και Διευθύνων Σύμβουλος της Dassault Aviation, υποδέχθηκε σήμερα στο Κέντρο Πτητικών Δοκιμών της Dassault Aviation
doureios.com
doureios.com

Ομιλία ΥΕΘΑ Ν. Παναγιωτόπουλου στην τελετή παράδοσης του πρώτου Rafale - Δούρειος Ίππος

Ο Υπουργός Εθνικής Αμύνης κ. Νικόλαος Παναγιωτόπουλος παρέστη σήμερα Τέταρτη 21 Ιουλίου 2021, στην τελετή παραλαβής του πρώτου σύγχρονου
doureios.com
 
Deltafan said:
www.globaldefensecorp.com

Egypt to Boost Rafale Order by 100 Aircraft as Its Su-35 Fails to Withstand Rafale’s Spectra Electronic Attacks

Egypt’s $4.5 billion order for 30 additional Rafale jets will improve data sharing across the Middle East powerhouse’s fleet. Middle East based Breaking Defense reported quoting Egyptian sources th…
www.globaldefensecorp.com www.globaldefensecorp.com
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This is kind of curious on which "Breaking Defense" magazine being referred as source.

The breaking defense article have nothing mentining Sukhoi being jammed etc

breakingdefense.com

Egyptian Deal For Rafale Fighters Boosts Data Sharing - Breaking Defense

Egyptian sources tell Breaking Defense that this may not be the last Rafale purchase. Egypt is now eying the Rafale F4. “We are looking to increase the (overall) number to 72 or 100 units, depending on Egypt’s financial capacity.”
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
There is also the fact that F4 will be available as an upgrade and not only on newly manufactured airframes.
 
stealthflanker said:
Deltafan said:
www.globaldefensecorp.com

Egypt to Boost Rafale Order by 100 Aircraft as Its Su-35 Fails to Withstand Rafale’s Spectra Electronic Attacks

Egypt’s $4.5 billion order for 30 additional Rafale jets will improve data sharing across the Middle East powerhouse’s fleet. Middle East based Breaking Defense reported quoting Egyptian sources th…
www.globaldefensecorp.com www.globaldefensecorp.com
Click to expand...

This is kind of curious on which "Breaking Defense" magazine being referred as source.

The breaking defense article have nothing mentining Sukhoi being jammed etc

breakingdefense.com

Egyptian Deal For Rafale Fighters Boosts Data Sharing - Breaking Defense

Egyptian sources tell Breaking Defense that this may not be the last Rafale purchase. Egypt is now eying the Rafale F4. “We are looking to increase the (overall) number to 72 or 100 units, depending on Egypt’s financial capacity.”
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
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Indeed, no information of this kind on the Breaking Defense site. In any case, I did not find it :

Breaking Defense

Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
Three more Rafale in India :

www.indiatoday.in

Three more Rafale jets arrive in India from France

Three more Rafale fighter jets arrived in India on Wednesday after flying non-stop from France. The aircraft were provided mid-air refuelling by the air force of the United Arab Emirates.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in
economictimes.indiatimes.com

rafale jets arrive in india: Latest News & Videos, Photos about rafale jets arrive in india | The Economic Times - Page 1

rafale jets arrive in india Latest Breaking News, Pictures, Videos, and Special Reports from The Economic Times. rafale jets arrive in india Blogs, Comments and Archive News on Economictimes.com
economictimes.indiatimes.com economictimes.indiatimes.com
www.freepressjournal.in

Seventh batch of three Rafale jets arrive in India from France

Seventh batch of three Rafale jets arrive in India from France
www.freepressjournal.in www.freepressjournal.in
 
helmutkohl said:
Wow, even the mighty Su-35 got jammed (and i didnt know Egypt has Su-35s.. their air force fleet is crazy with diversity.. )

i always felt that the Rafale had some good "guts". was hoping that some country would work with France (say India) and make a 5th gen aircraft using Rafale guts in a new gen air frame. it could work well.
Click to expand...

Nothing got jammed.....as Egypt doesn't have its Su-35s yet.....so where could this Su-35 vs Rafale excersise taken place?
 
TR1 said:
helmutkohl said:
Wow, even the mighty Su-35 got jammed (and i didnt know Egypt has Su-35s.. their air force fleet is crazy with diversity.. )

i always felt that the Rafale had some good "guts". was hoping that some country would work with France (say India) and make a 5th gen aircraft using Rafale guts in a new gen air frame. it could work well.
Click to expand...

Nothing got jammed.....as Egypt doesn't have its Su-35s yet.....so where could this Su-35 vs Rafale excersise taken place?
Click to expand...
thanks for the clarification.
unfortunately it seems this story has now spread and many are using pics of that Egyptian su-35 being tested in Russia as their picture
 
Yeah , tho those 5 might still be in Russia for training or some problem... it's to be delivered in 2023. The only way Rafale can get the exercise is to actually bring them to Russia.
 
www.israeldefense.co.il

Egyptian Air Force starts to receive Su-35 fighters

The Egyptian Air Force has taken delivery of all the MiG-29 fighters it ordered from Russia, and started to receive its first Russian Sukhoi Su-35 fighters. Russian magazine New Defence, quoting industry sources in Russia, reported that five Su-35s were delivered to Egypt, and that satellite...
www.israeldefense.co.il www.israeldefense.co.il
www.al-monitor.com

Egypt moves ahead with purchase of Russian arms despite US warnings

Russian media reported that Egypt has received five Sukhoi Su-35 advanced combat aircraft despite US threats to sanction Cairo over the Russian deal.
www.al-monitor.com www.al-monitor.com
 
The Israel link mentions 2023 delivery same as here :
www.defenceweb.co.za

Egyptian MiG-29 deliveries concluded as Su-35 deliveries begin - defenceWeb

The Egyptian Air Force has taken delivery of all its MiG-29M/M2 fighter jets from Russia and has started receiving the first of two dozen Su-35 fighters. This is according to Russia’s New Defence Order Strategy magazine. Quoting Russian industry sources, it stated in its second edition of 2021...
www.defenceweb.co.za www.defenceweb.co.za

While the Aljazeera just mention "delivered" without any context and instead went on adding some unrelated news.

The biggest elephant in the room however is that no photos of those Su-35's being in Egypt, which is strange considering the amount of publications received on their earlier MiG-29M's. These guys likes to shows their new stuff.
 
stealthflanker said:
Yeah , tho those 5 might still be in Russia for training or some problem... it's to be delivered in 2023. The only way Rafale can get the exercise is to actually bring them to Russia.
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I wouldn't be surprised if that has been the case.
 
Why would you bring a C-17 for support?
This can only be to move around spare parts and crew. Or... Hot refueling!*
Wonder if any spotters plotted their route.

*what would explain the lack of a dedicated tanker
 
I remember seeing a Qatari C-17 when I was working at Bordeaux Mérignac airport. It seems they are shuttling between Mérignac and the UAE according to new Rafales needs and support (and I agree it must be insanely expensive, but we all know the UAE have boatloads of oil dollars to throw through windows, so they don't care... !)
 
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Qatari Rafale and 2K-5 in Turkey: some in France see it as a favorable commercial opportunity!
(and more French cancan cognitive dance (one leg up for Greece, one up for Turkey)...
According to Justine Mazonier, a French independent security consultant, this agreement could give the French defense industry a step towards penetrating the Turkish market — a long sought goal.

“France tried for many years to enter the Turkish market (despite the arms embargo in 2019). The Turkish military staff would be able to assess the quality of the French material and define for themselves their own operational needs,” Mazonier said.
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o_O

breakingdefense.com

Qatar's Massive Increase In Military Power Comes With Political, Logistical Headaches - Breaking Defense

As Qatar awaits permission from Paris to base Rafales and Mirages in Turkey, it grapples with the challenge of finding manpower and training them to use dozens of planes it has purchased.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvTGBwQxK1o
I was surprised to see how easy this thing seems to go together and the little number of people working on it. Is it because it is built into big components in a different factory? I have seen videos of the Russians building a su-30 and it looks like more intensive work and more people all around so I was wondering what is the difference. The factories look pretty similar. Now if you compare it to the Korean factory building their new stealth airplane it looks more like a car factory with more automatization.
 
As mentioned, notice the minimal investment in toolings (look at the way the engines are installed... Same as on the field. Look at the way equipment are inserted... Operator's bodies used as impact screen, a single hook is used, everything is lifted suspended under a master crane (no parallel operations). Look also at the hand tools: none are electrified or pneumatics. I am sure any of those guys need an elbow surgery at 30.

This is a workshop. Not an industrial line. Thanks God, crazy Ivan, with his infamous hand drill, is kept at bay.
 
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Hey, I'm not trying to start x vs y discussion, I just pointed that it seems like the Russians build everything under one roof and the French seem to bring bigger blocks to a different location for final assembly so it looks simple to do.
 
Don't worry, for some reasons I never quite fully understood our dear @TomcatViP seemingly has some kind of axe to grind against French aviation, notably Dassault and Airbus.
No ad hominem, Tomcat (can I call you Tomcat ?) it just intrigates me...
 
Can't you see what I am pointing to?! If so, you probably have an axe too. If not a twig in your eye ;)

51772-4_T-1i.jpg
 
Yes and no. It's vintage funny and a bit messy all around but it's a prototype.
But then look closely at the toolings, the safety protections to prevent injuries and the fact that you have simultaneous operations. This illustrates the point I wanted: the lack of investments.

Those guys probably championed their happy hours time long past their 60s
 
It's probably hard for everyone, to keep a certain bias for or against something out of a thread.
But please, stay with the original theme, and don't mix it up with discussions about the French
arms export policy ! Just a clue, this thread principally still is a NEWS ONLY one, though this wasn't
enforced during the last time anymore.
Must admit, that I don't really understand the discussion, which, to my opinion, centered around the
statement, that France is selling military equipment, especially aircraft at dumping prices. I absolutely
don't want to intervene, but trying to prove, that Dassault is building its military jet aircraft without
investment into production facilities, perhaps isn't a consistent argument for this statement ?
 
You know, recently I also made non-ecstatic remarks on SpaceX, Boeing, LM, B.O and, I guess, many more, but no one on those threads boxed me as an hatter, anti-whatever or vilified me. Being stained every time I try to make a constructive remark in that thread is exhausting and quite not fair.

See the cart wheels and hand trucks being manually pushed from the back end of the hangar (and it's a big one, I can tell) for every items that need to be installed. See the non-actuated hand tools. Look at the way both engines are installed and multiply the time lost per one hundred... Look at the lack of safety protection (if you do this once, that's perfectly ok. But one hundred time on a production line?!).

There is nothing to be surprised of their meager cadences. Those are production rate sinks and often an amphetamine shots for quality escapes...
 
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Here is an example of what Dassault was about in the early 2000's when modern production lines and equipments were the focus of investments (this is their wings construction plant a couple of miles from their main assembly lines). Notice that all the robotics were relatively new at the time in aerospace and the main difficulty lied in adapting assembly tolerances from the automotive industry where most of those robots were sourced from (hence the guiding plates (the shiny cover plates that guide accurately the robot's drill (or other tools) to the right place).

As you can see, the entire assembly use powered equipments and operator safety and ergonomic are taken into consideration at each step.

Hence notice how there is no place to picture an horse carriage here...

View: https://youtu.be/6iHqtk4736g
 
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