Covid-19 Vaccine - Where, How & Costs

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Chinese vaccines appear to be the safest from genetically modified vaccines such as Astra Zenic, Fraser and Sputnik. Because Chinese vaccines are based on a dead virus combined with a seasonal dead virus and in this way the body makes a better genetic information how to defend and trains itself when attacked by a delta virus.

In contrast, genetically modified vaccines bind easily to common influenza and lead to the formation of new classes of coronaviruses.
 
kocovgoce said:
Chinese vaccines appear to be the safest from genetically modified vaccines such as Astra Zenic, Fraser and Sputnik. Because Chinese vaccines are based on a dead virus combined with a seasonal dead virus and in this way the body makes a better genetic information how to defend and trains itself when attacked by a delta virus.

In contrast, genetically modified vaccines bind easily to common influenza and lead to the formation of new classes of coronaviruses.
Click to expand...
Citations needed.
 
kocovgoce said:
Chinese vaccines appear to be the safest from genetically modified vaccines such as Astra Zenic, Fraser and Sputnik. Because Chinese vaccines are based on a dead virus combined with a seasonal dead virus and in this way the body makes a better genetic information how to defend and trains itself when attacked by a delta virus.

In contrast, genetically modified vaccines bind easily to common influenza and lead to the formation of new classes of coronaviruses.
Click to expand...
The terms alive or dead do not apply to a virus. The terms imply the presence or absence of metabolical activity, a virus is never metabolically active. A virus can be damaged or modified beyond being able to infect.
"Genetically modified vaccines" - vaccines work because they introduce substances into the body that are similar enough to an active virus to elicit an immunity response that also protects against the active virus, but not similar enough to cause the viral infection. Parts snipped of the virus can work. A modified virus can work. If the vaccine contains any part of the viral genome, it is, by definition, "genetically modified". If it contains the entire unmodified viral genome - it's the virus.

Influenza viruses combining with corona vaccines to form a new class of corona virus - show proof of that and you would be well on the way to a Nobel Prize.
 
Arjen said:
Influenza viruses combining with corona vaccines to form a new class of corona virus - show proof of that and you would be well on the way to a Nobel Prize.
Click to expand...
Yeah I was tempted to bury this thread under the steaming pile of expletives that poster deserves for such obvious disinformation, but people here deserve better than foul language.
 
Flyaway said:
www.theguardian.com

Data predicts 2m UK summer Covid cases with 10m isolating

Guardian analysis prompts health warnings as Javid says England entering ‘uncharted territory’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

That's in the same ballpark as an estimate I threw together in a discussion with friends yesterday:
"Unfortunately people as a whole are bad at stats. They see 96% protection for Pfizer and think that means there won't be many get Covid from now on, but even with everyone vaccinated, 96% across about 60 million people is potentially 2.4 million cases. And it's more than that because AZ is only about 92% effective and most had that, so call it 4 million cases.
Given c90% protection against hospitalization, and assuming about 7% need hospitalization if unvaccinated (the range is from 0-18% by age-group, 7% looks about average), then that gives about 250,000 people ill enough to need hospitalization, and that will be overwhelmingly skewed to the over 50s and otherwise vulnerable."

Not everyone is going to be exposed immediately, but efficacy may be lower vs Delta, so 2m over the summer is definitely feasible.
 
I take exception to the addition of "uncharted territory." It's been over 15 months and scientists are what? Not noticing? Trends have followed the usual activities. Getting outside more. Mixing more. There is an uptick now in the U.S. for the same reasons. Most deaths are among the unvaccinated.
 
kocovgoce said:
Chinese vaccines appear to be the safest from genetically modified vaccines such as Astra Zenic, Fraser and Sputnik. Because Chinese vaccines are based on a dead virus combined with a seasonal dead virus and in this way the body makes a better genetic information how to defend and trains itself when attacked by a delta virus.
Click to expand...

Sinovac's effectiveness is 64%, and Sinopharm's is 78%, which is lower than Pfizer (94%), AZ (83%)or Sputnik (92%). (All figures vs initial Covid variants). Even a 5% difference in effectiveness is going to far outweigh any issues with side effects.

In contrast, genetically modified vaccines bind easily to common influenza and lead to the formation of new classes of coronaviruses.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that's like saying genetically modified vaccines combine with humans to make new kinds of starfish.

Influenza is four varieties in the family Orthomyxoviridae, Coronaviruses are a sub-family of Coronaviridae, on top of which Orthomxyoviridae have negative sense RNA, while Coronaviridae are positive sense (think of it as polarity for RNA). As positive/negative sense is a phyla level difference in viruses, that means you need to go up kingdom level to find a common ancestor shared by both flu and coronaviruses. Kingdom level for humans is Animalia, flu viruses are as different from coronaviruses as starfish, worms, mussels and tardigrades are from us.
 
Every year in the U.S., a new flu vaccine. Viruses mutate, every year.
 
I would hope that the WHO is taking into account the actions of various U.S. states, many of which have "fully" reopened. There are still mask requirements at certain businesses and settings like hospitals, prisons and similar. Of course, protecting public health is paramount. 70% percent of the population being fully vaccinated was the goal of the U.S. government and still is. The arbitrary July 4th deadline passed with the overall number below the goal. However, there are individual states where the vaccination rate is at 70% and above.

So, what to do with those who refuse to be vaccinated? Force them to take the vaccine? Certain colleges and universities have stated that returning students must be fully vaccinated or stay away. The states with low vaccination rates are known and specific 'problem' areas within those states have been identified. Ongoing efforts to inform the public are good but some healthcare workers have lost their jobs over refusing to take the vaccine.
 
On a tangent:
science.slashdot.org

Moderna Starts Human Trials of An mRNA-Based Flu Shot - Slashdot

Yesterday, Moderna announced that the first set of volunteers in a clinical trial have received its mRNA-based seasonal flu vaccine. The Verge reports: Before the COVID-19 pandemic, mRNA vaccines were still largely experimental, even as they were heralded as the future of vaccine development...
science.slashdot.org
 
Flyaway said:
I am quite surprised by this.

www.standard.co.uk

One in 17 over-80s in England may not have any Covid-19 vaccine, figures suggest

The Government has said all adults in England will have been offered a first dose of Covid-19 vaccine by July 19.
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
Click to expand...

I think the article's assumption its due to vaccine hesitancy is at least partly wrong. The 80+yo cohort is going to have more people who can't be vaccinated for other medical reasons, and its also likely to contain considerably more people who can't get out to vaccination centres because they're housebound. That's supposed to be covered by GPs and district nurses doing vaccinations in the home, but I've heard from younger disabled people who are housebound that it can be a bit hit and miss.
 
Case study, Switzerland: how the vaccination campaign has stalled by the lack of person willing to get vaccinated (in french but the detailed graphics are self explanatory).

Screenshot_20210709_170305.jpg

Today, vaccination rate in Switzerland is only 52% (and, no, this is not a country where 50% of the population is under 20).

www.rts.ch

La vaccination contre le Covid-19 bientôt au point mort en Suisse

Le rythme de vaccination connaît un fort ralentissement en Suisse. Le réservoir de personnes prêtes à se faire vacciner sera bientôt épuisé, loin de l'objectif de 80% affiché par le gouvernement. La couverture vaccinale connaît de grandes disparités régionales.
www.rts.ch www.rts.ch
 
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www.theguardian.com

Vaccines working as expected in preventing Covid deaths, say experts

Total of 118 people have died after two doses in England, as PHE says vaccine drive has prevented about 30,000 deaths
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

"PHE estimates that two-dose vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with Delta is about 94% and scientists think there is likely a similar reduction against death, which means the lethal risk is reduced to less than a 20th of its usual value."
 
DWG said:
Flyaway said:
I am quite surprised by this.

www.standard.co.uk

One in 17 over-80s in England may not have any Covid-19 vaccine, figures suggest

The Government has said all adults in England will have been offered a first dose of Covid-19 vaccine by July 19.
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
Click to expand...

I think the article's assumption its due to vaccine hesitancy is at least partly wrong. The 80+yo cohort is going to have more people who can't be vaccinated for other medical reasons, and its also likely to contain considerably more people who can't get out to vaccination centres because they're housebound. That's supposed to be covered by GPs and district nurses doing vaccinations in the home, but I've heard from younger disabled people who are housebound that it can be a bit hit and miss.
Click to expand...
Me and my dad are both housebound at the moment for various medical reasons and were vaccinated in a timely fashion and I believe after a slow start this was repeated across where I live.
 

After the pandemic: perspectives on the future trajectory of COVID-19
Abstract​

There is a realistic expectation that the global effort in vaccination will bring the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) pandemic under control. Nonetheless, uncertainties remain about the type of long-term association the virus will establish with the human population, particularly whether the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) will become an endemic disease. Although the trajectory is difficult to predict, the conditions, concepts, and variables that influence this transition can be anticipated. Persistence of SARS-CoV-2 as an endemic virus, perhaps with seasonal epidemic peaks, may be fueled by pockets of susceptible individuals and waning immunity after infection or vaccination, changes in the virus through antigenic drift that diminish protection, and reentries from zoonotic reservoirs. Here, we review relevant observations from previous epidemics and discuss the potential evolution of SARS-CoV-2 as it adapts during persistent transmission in the presence of a level of population immunity. Lack of effective surveillance or adequate response could enable the emergence of new epidemic or pandemic patterns from an endemic infection of SARS-CoV-2. There are key pieces of data that are urgently needed in order to make good decisions. We outline these and propose a way forward.

www.nature.com

After the pandemic: perspectives on the future trajectory of COVID-19 - Nature

This Perspective discusses possible future patterns of SARS-CoV-2 infection, the development of variants, potential changes in the patterns of spread and the implications for vaccine deployment and the potential consequences of these issues for the development of policy.
www.nature.com www.nature.com
 
Based on everything I've read, this virus, and/or variants will remain in circulation. Should the United States successfully produce an antiviral pill or capsule by the end of the year, it should help greatly. Should something else appear, the ability to identify new viruses and sequence their genetic structure has improved. Yes, preparations need to be made now. A global surveillance system needs to be established. A communications and cooperation system needs to exist. After 4 million global deaths, and the lockdowns, I don't think the average person wants to go through this again.
 
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The EU has delivered enough coronavirus vaccine doses to member states to reach a target to fully vaccinate at least 70% of adults in the bloc, the European Commission chief, Ursula von der Leyen, said in a statement on Saturday.
Von der Leyen, who had tweeted on 9 May that the EU was on track to meet its goal of inoculating 70% of adults by summer[...]
Click to expand...

thehill.com

EU reaches 70 percent vaccine delivery goal for adults

The European Union (EU) has reached its goal of delivering enough coronavirus vaccines to fully vaccinate at least 70 percent of its adult population, officials announced Saturday.European Commissi…
thehill.com thehill.com

...
If you ever get invited for a private dinner by her, the way she vaccinates, you'd better get yourself equipped with some stoves and pans as you might only get served with unprepared ingredients...
 
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People being very picky over what vaccine they accept is threatening to undermine Brazil’s vaccine campaign. The trend as ever is fuelled by misinformation spread by social media.

www.reuters.com

Picky "vaccine sommeliers" undermine Brazil inoculation campaign, experts say

One question rippled through the queue outside a makeshift inoculation center in Rio de Janeiro's beachside neighborhood of Copacabana on a recent morning: "Which vaccine are they using?"
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Nearly 300,000 American lives are estimated to have been saved so far by the vaccination campaign.

www.independent.co.uk

Covid vaccines have so far saved nearly 300,000 lives in US, study says

Research shows jab campaign has ‘markedly curbed the US pandemic,’ White House says
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
www.theguardian.com

Public alarm grows at Boris Johnson’s plan for Covid ‘freedom day’

Poll shows 50% want rules to stay in place, as mayors urge masks on public transport
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

TLDR: 50% against Boris's plans (including scientists, the NHS, doctors, the unions, Labour, and the Mayors of London and Manchester), 41% for. 73% in favour of continued mask wearing on public transport, 66% planning to keep wearing masks in stores.
 
DWG said:
www.theguardian.com

Public alarm grows at Boris Johnson’s plan for Covid ‘freedom day’

Poll shows 50% want rules to stay in place, as mayors urge masks on public transport
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

TLDR: 50% against Boris's plans (including scientists, the NHS, doctors, the unions, Labour, and the Mayors of London and Manchester), 41% for. 73% in favour of continued mask wearing on public transport, 66% planning to keep wearing masks in stores.
Click to expand...

It seems like common sense that with cases rising so quickly it’s not the time to remove restrictions. But do people know the facts and options? It’s not so black and white with some blissful alternative with no negative consequences. At some point, some people have to make hard decisions. ‘Why it’s time to think differently about Covid’:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942
 
Ekimwest said:
DWG said:
www.theguardian.com

Public alarm grows at Boris Johnson’s plan for Covid ‘freedom day’

Poll shows 50% want rules to stay in place, as mayors urge masks on public transport
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

TLDR: 50% against Boris's plans (including scientists, the NHS, doctors, the unions, Labour, and the Mayors of London and Manchester), 41% for. 73% in favour of continued mask wearing on public transport, 66% planning to keep wearing masks in stores.
Click to expand...

It seems like common sense that with cases rising so quickly it’s not the time to remove restrictions. But do people know the facts and options? It’s not so black and white with some blissful alternative with no negative consequences. At some point, some people have to make hard decisions. ‘Why it’s time to think differently about Covid’:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942
Click to expand...
The government have this morning done a u-turn to some degree changing stance again. It’s basically saying we are lifting legal restrictions but still expecting you to follow restrictions.

www.independent.co.uk

People ‘expected’ to wear face masks in enclosed public spaces after 19 July under new guidance, vaccines minister says

Government ‘confident’ legal restrictions can be lifted on 19 July, minister adds
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
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