Possibly a thermal smoke generator, similar to
smoke screens on MBT's, to help hide the exhaust gases from IIR missiles?

Weirdly, with recent events in Ukraine, I wondered the other day why they didn't have a similar system on combat helicopters (risk of smoke ingestion into the engines probably).
 

This plane just gets stranger and stranger Deino, I wonder what use would a device for releasing smoke trails on a fighter like the J-10C have? Weird.


In case someone is interested ...

Here is what I got today ... as such a summary on this new variant!
In fact based on some chats with a few Chinese friends including the one who provided me with this image, there are three different options under discussion and all three seem to fit together

1. This one is for the Ba Yi and is called J-10CY, the smoke generator and the smokewinder-like pod are IMO proof enough as well as the deleted gun, The strange fact, that it uses AL-31FN is most often explained by two options: first, the Ba Yi want an aircraft with as much as possible the same kinematics so that they retain the old engine. Also, the AL-31FN is often said to be a bit more responsive from AB ignition to full thrust, so maybe this too is a reason and finally, the 72nd Air Brigade, which is collocated with the Ba Yi also uses AL-31FN since it uses older batch J-10Cs. As such, it eases maintenance and the spine houses an oil tank for the smoke + whatever is needed.

2. Second theory, the PLAAF in fact wants an MLU package for the older J-10A (some say B/C) and this includes additional avionics, eventually an internal ECM-jammer like the KL-700, which would fit quite nicely and would free the then used intake pylon. Actually I don‘t think it is a CFT or fuel tank, for this, the added volume is IMO not large enough.

3. And finally, this spine seems to be also made on request from an as yet unnamed export customer - IMO indeed Pakistan (as per a friend at PAC Kamra) - again to fit additional avionics/EW/ECM systems.
 

This plane just gets stranger and stranger Deino, I wonder what use would a device for releasing smoke trails on a fighter like the J-10C have? Weird.


In case someone is interested ...

Here is what I got today ... as such a summary on this new variant!
In fact based on some chats with a few Chinese friends including the one who provided me with this image, there are three different options under discussion and all three seem to fit together

1. This one is for the Ba Yi and is called J-10CY, the smoke generator and the smokewinder-like pod are IMO proof enough as well as the deleted gun, The strange fact, that it uses AL-31FN is most often explained by two options: first, the Ba Yi want an aircraft with as much as possible the same kinematics so that they retain the old engine. Also, the AL-31FN is often said to be a bit more responsive from AB ignition to full thrust, so maybe this too is a reason and finally, the 72nd Air Brigade, which is collocated with the Ba Yi also uses AL-31FN since it uses older batch J-10Cs. As such, it eases maintenance and the spine houses an oil tank for the smoke + whatever is needed.

2. Second theory, the PLAAF in fact wants an MLU package for the older J-10A (some say B/C) and this includes additional avionics, eventually an internal ECM-jammer like the KL-700, which would fit quite nicely and would free the then used intake pylon. Actually I don‘t think it is a CFT or fuel tank, for this, the added volume is IMO not large enough.

3. And finally, this spine seems to be also made on request from an as yet unnamed export customer - IMO indeed Pakistan (as per a friend at PAC Kamra) - again to fit additional avionics/EW/ECM systems.
 

Sudan being a potential second customer for the J-10 is certainly news to me, any idea as to how many they would order?
Judging by their inventory and past orders I would say between 6 and 12.
 

Interesting camouflage scheme. I have just noticed that there is a single blade antenna in the middle of the spine of the PAF J-10, I wonder if that is to do with Electronic Warfare or some other use.
I would hazard a guess that it's a comms antenna. Radio or even SATCOM.
 

Interesting camouflage scheme. I have just noticed that there is a single blade antenna in the middle of the spine of the PAF J-10, I wonder if that is to do with Electronic Warfare or some other use.
I would hazard a guess that it's a comms antenna. Radio or even SATCOM.

I had never thought about it being Radio or SATCOM for the PAF J-10's blade antenna , thanks Scorpion82.
 
未命名-1.jpg
Research from 1970s to 1990s

You can see that it was round inlet in 1990, however, it became a variable geometry inlet in 1992.

So,what happen to J-10's inlet, which finally become a variable geometry inlet.

The answer is the change of engine.

Although it has been confirmed that the J-10 uses turbofan engine, due to its long development cycle, it can't keep up with the development cycle of the aircraft, so liming Company received the task of modifying WP-15 engine as a temporary engine.

So the J-10 was originally designed based on FWP-15(More precisely, FWP-15A) engine.Because of its high-altitude and high-speed performance, it only needs round inlet to meet the requirements.

However, its installation, size and characteristics are quite different from FWS-10.

Finally, As the installation position of AL-31FN and FWS-10 is the same, the size profile does not exceed FWS-10, the center of gravity is more forward than FWS-10, the weight is almost the same, and the performance change law is similar, etc, the decision to use AL-31FN was issued in 1992.

The research of FWP-15A for J-10 was stopped.

As the high-speed characteristic of AL-31FN is not as good as FWP-15, 611 had to modify the intake design to meet its original design requirements.So we can see that in 1992, the design of J-10's inlet has become a variable geometry inlet.
 
I'm sorry that I seem to have made some mistakes.

The air intake in the simulation image of 1990 is more rectangular, I just forgot the details of the image and naturally thought of it as the 1991 full-scale model!

But the full-scale prototype model in 1991 is indeed the round inlet, and the previous text about engine change is true.

One possibility is that the two schemes are studied at the same time. In fact, 611 did study a similar inlet model earlier.

J-10 model in 1991:

下载 (2)~2.jpg
 
Reminds me of the scheme on their Mirage IIIs:

main-qimg-11b9ea03f94ab3ab5176cc93669a226a-lq


Which itself I believe was carried over from some of the RAAF ones sold to them:

RAAF_Mirage_III_1.JPEG.jpeg
 

Earlier in March, a new shape took to the skies over Pakistan. Six J-10Cs, bearing the tail numbers 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, and 106, entered Pakistan via PURPA (waypoint) on the northeastern border with China. Precise and lethal equipped with canards, delta wing design, a soaring 4.5 generation Omni-role, all-weather-capable jet – PAF’s ‘Vigorous Dragon’ had arrived to safeguard the country’s future for years to come. The scenes were reminiscent of 1968, when six French Mirage fighters, tail numbers ranging from 101 to 106 entered Pakistani airspace. Leading the formation was Wg Cdr MM Alam. Sqn Ldr Hakimullah, Sqn Ldr Farooq F Khan, Sqn Ldr Farooq Umar, Flt Lt Arif Manzoor, and Flt Lt Akhtar Rao, flew at his wings. Fast forward to 2022. Leading the formation of Dragons was OC No 15 Sqn, Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim Shehzada. Wg Cdr Bilal Raza, Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid, Sqn Ldr Hasan Anees, Sqn Ldr Zeeshan Muhammad, Sqn Ldr Ali Qasim, flew on the wings of their leader. The formation is on its way to Kamra from Chengdu. Back at PAF Base Minhas, the air is rife with energy. A sense of excitement and pride runs through all, gathered at the occasion to welcome the Dragons. All eyes are glued towards the beginning of the runway to catch the first glance of Dragons about to appear for landing. Assembled on the tarmac of the base is the senior leadership of PAF under its honorable leader, ACM Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, the CAS PAF. Finally, the historic moment had arrived. First Dragon bearing Serial No 101, flown by Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim appeared on the scene. The six J-10Cs touched down at PAF Base Minhas at Kamra. Senior air officials observing from the tarmac breathed a sigh of relief and applauded the perfect landings. As the aircraft appeared on the tarmac, a water canon salute was presented to the incoming Dragons, a tradition followed to welcome the arrival of new aircraft at a facility. Before Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim could disembark and line up his crew for presentation, he found Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, climbing the ladder, to greet him. “Does the plane live up to our expectations?” asked the smiling Air Chief. “I’ll have to admit, it is one of the best fighter jets in the world. With all the work we had been doing in China over the months, improving our tactics in the way we operate the platform, I can safely say that the capability that we have brought back with us is truly phenomenal, far better than what we expected, sir,” Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim responded. It’s a significant investment, but in defense, nothing comes cheap. The J-10C is a cutting-edge platform, moving the PAF into a new ball game in terms of operational readiness, in terms of the nature of the platform the PAF was acquiring. When the “Second to None” team spoke with ground crews and the pilots, it was fair to say that the J-10C was a step in the right direction, something that the PAF had been working towards for a long time. It was just fantastic to see them arrive, having traveled all the way from China. It was a thing of beauty. Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, Chief of Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force maintained that the induction of the Dragons highlighted the fact that the investments the air force made in capabilities and in capacity was significant. “The fact that we will be flying the J-10C makes a statement that PAF, has significant defense capability and is willing to do its part in the world, and is willing to meet its obligations,” the Air Chief said during the arrival ceremony of the jets at PAF Base Minhas, where the enthusiasm was contagious.
Taming the Dragon
To get trained on J-10Cs and later ferry the Dragons from China, a team of professionals including both pilots and ground crew was shortlisted. Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim Shahzada, who has flown F-16s and Mirages was given the honor of leading the contingent to China in October 2021. His team boasted skilled F-16, JF-17, and Mirage pilots, familiar with Beyond Visual Range (BVR), and had AI exposure. Following strict covid protocols, the team traveled in three groups over a span of three weeks. Gp Capt Azkaar from Project Dragon handled logistics, overseeing departure formalities, flight cancellations due to covid, and preparing backups for dropouts. Upon landing in China, on 20 October, the crews were quarantined in the city of arrival for 14 days. On the second last day of the quarantine, Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim tested positive. The rest were cleared to depart to Chengdu, where they were quarantined for another two weeks. Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim spent, in all, 72 days in quarantine before he could join his teammates who had already started their training. The training was focused specifically on operating the J-10C. “In Chengdu, we were basically starting to learn how to fly this technologically advanced jet, and then we went through all the different mission sets and basic skills,” Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim said. Most of the pilot’s instructions came on the ground, in the classrooms followed by pilots practicing the aircraft’s most unique capabilities in an advanced simulator. The language was a major barrier, which the PAF crew overcame with the help of an interpreter. After classes, PAF pilots used to sit down to reconcile information on their own. No time to enjoy and see China. They were trained directly by the original equipment manufacturers (OEM), and by Chinese counterparts with perhaps a few more flying hours under their belts. A few days of theoretical sessions were followed by quizzes. During training, it was crucial that pilots got comfortable executing J-10C maneuvers. Hence, simulator training started in detail, learning avionics, switchology, feel of controls was extremely realistic, engine handling, and the response of controls – allowing to recreate emergencies and procedures in the aircraft that really simulate what it would be like to fly in a real J-10C. Each PAF pilot had to complete the prescribed number of sorties in the simulator as a minimum syllabus requirement, only then they could be allowed in the new jet. Anything they could do in an aircraft they could in the simulator – max rate turns, vertical climbs weapon employment techniques, etc. “A lot of people underestimate the amount of work it takes to become a pilot, and a fighter pilot specifically. A one-hour flight, even in a simulator might mean up to several additional hours of the briefing, gearing up, flight inspections, and debriefings, not to mention the hours spent studying/preparing for each mission,” said Wg Cdr Bilal Raza emphasizes the importance of training. Finally, the day arrived when the crew had the opportunity to have the first look at the aircraft. The PAF crew were in awe of the jet when they first set their eyes on the Dragon. The first thing they noticed was its huge size, slightly different shape, and looks as compared to weapon systems they had already flown. “It was a fantastic feeling and we were in love with the bird at first sight,” Wg Cdr Bilal Raza said. “It’s one of the world’s most advanced fighter aircraft and we’re lucky to be a part of that program in the PAF, and to be at the leading edge of that is a real privilege and real delight,” Wg Cdr Bilal Raza added, enthusiastic to feel how it would handle in the air, and wanting to experience its agility and maneuverability. At Chengdu, it was the job of Chinese instructors to teach PAF pilots how to fly the J-10C from scratch. The Chinese were nervous, at first, fearing the guest crew would not be able to hack it. “This wasn’t like college where we could get through with minimum passing grades. We had to attain almost 100% to qualify in each and every phase, there were no let-ups. We were expected to catch on to material we were taught really quickly, the learning curve had definitely been pretty steep,” Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim recalled. The instructors worked overtime, and gave up a week of Chinese New Year holidays to train PAF pilots – no compromises to achieve minimum standards.
The First Mission
After all the tedious groundwork – learning about aerodynamics, aircraft systems, navigation, and instrument flying, it was time to get a feel of the jet. PAF crews spent two days climbing into the cockpit, strapping up, and developing equipment familiarization. Each pilot performed ground starts, after start procedures, followed by shut down, slow/medium taxi came later. some of the pilots progressed while the remaining continued on the simulator. “Finally, we had all the gear on, and after months of preparation, it was time to go flying. Of course, a thorough briefing before flight, and supervisor checks were performed so that everything was in order in order before getting airborne.” Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim said. Since the PAF airmen had not flown for a long period and they needed to regain their flying currency. They jumped into K-8s to get used to the Gs, get currency, and understand wind patterns and operating areas. Before stepping foot in the J-10C cockpit, student pilots needed to familiarize themselves with the gear needed to operate the J-10C, in their custom-made G suits to fit perfectly. Last but not the least, the pilots learned to utilize the most technologically advanced piece of equipment, their helmets. The pilot’s Heads-Up Display was directly projected on the visor rather than just at the front of the cockpit. This allowed pilots to easily view key data such as altitude, air speed, and direction and even select multiple targets and shoot. “Since the jet helps us so much, flying becomes second nature. That way we can focus on all the information that the plane is giving us,” Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim elaborated. “It’s amazing to be in a 4.5 generation semi-stealth fighter, kind of tip of the spear. It’s a heavily weighted aircraft, in terms of combat power, that the PAF brings to the fight,” Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid said. One part of history was achieved when Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim flew the first solo sortie of the Dragon. “A lot of the challenge was trying to absorb all the information the jet is giving you, operate all the sensors and the systems at the same time, and fly, the feeling was enormous,” the team leader said. All the PAF pilots enjoyed basic handling, and confidence-building maneuvers in advanced handling missions, and in clean and tanked configurations both. This was followed by training in air combat tactics and instructor training for some of the PAF aircrew. The crews were taken aback after engaging afterburner (AB). The kick was bigger than the F-16. “There was an unbelievable amount of thrust when I opened up the afterburner for the first time. The J-10C can produce 29,000 lb thrust, which is 10,000 lbs excess thrust than the JF-17 produces, and as much power as two and a half Mirages put together. A single Mirage produces 14,000 lb thrust,” Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid said. The speed increment was so fast that post-take-off procedures had to be executed in rapid succession to remain with the aircraft. Once in the air, handling the jet was not the most difficult aspect, Wg Cdr Bilal Raza said adding, “It is actually a really easy plane to fly, the aircraft comes with Voice Recognition Capability which makes your life much easy.” Nonetheless, the pilots flew at 26,000 ft, did general steep turns, building up Gs gradually, performed straight in approach, accessed information through voice commands such as requesting fuel state, hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) on most actions, instrument approach, close pattern, low go, and deploying drag shoot and making a full stop landing comfortably within 3, 500 to 4, 000 ft on a 7,500 ft runway. “It was historic and emotional for Pakistanis and Chinese both when we landed safely for the first time. We were presented with bouquets,” Wg Cdr Bilal Raza said.
Dragons Ferry
After six months of trials and tribulations, it was time to ferry the first batch of six J-10C Dragons, back home. From here on, life would never be the same. The crew set down to plan the ferry mission in the minutest details. They needed answers to all the questions, what selecting diversionary airfields, protocols in case of emergency, what is the enroute weather like, etc. Crossing over the Karakorum range was no easy job, it needed perfect and flawless planning which the crew did. Finally, came the ferry day. The aircraft was topped up with required fuel and three external tanks each was fitted to the ferry aircraft. Six Dragons under Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim started up and headed for the take-off point. After Burners on, six aircraft started to roll on the Chengdu runway, off to motherland. Getting airborne, the leader looked around to see if the rest of his section were with him. Climbed up to cruise height and followed the planned route. “It was a proud day, a proud moment for all of us. We knew that we were making history, the feeling was nostalgic. The ferry was eventless, and the weather was good. As we entered the Karakorums we were amazed to see the beauty of the landscape. We flew abreast of the K-2, towering 28000 feet plus the second highest peak in the world. As soon as the six J-10C jets entered Pakistani air space, an escort F-16 from No 9 Sqn ‘Griffins’, joined the formation of the Dragons. “Welcome back boys,” the pilot of the Fighting Falcon, call sign Griffin-1 said over the radio. Bit of a homecoming for the PAF. As soon as we established radio contact with Pakistani ATC radar we were greeted enthusiastically. “Dragon-1, welcome home,” replied the ground controller on the radio. The six new jets, tail numbered 101 to 106, landed at PAF Base Minhas at Kamra, the material and logistical base of the new No 15 Sqn. The PAF crews had achieved a milestone that very few others could. Tremendous investment had been made at Kamra, which has been a key base for many years. A fantastic new chapter in the country’s military capabilities and history. What it said in many ways is that after the induction of this state-of-the-art, modern, and potent weapons system, the PAF is now operating in a much stronger and more efficient manner, thanks to these Dragons.
 

J-10C with the spine is indeed for the Ba Yi:

J-10CY + spine - 2.jpg J-10CY + spine - 1.jpg

And second, fitting to your historical posts:

View attachment 685686
That's what I said before.
611's variable geometry inlet wind tunnel test model, in 1985(!).
Unfortunately, the identity of this model cannot be confirmed.


I found this somewhere at Weibo:

1669791407073.jpeg
 

J-10C with the spine is indeed for the Ba Yi:

View attachment 688032View attachment 688033

And second, fitting to your historical posts:

View attachment 685686
That's what I said before.
611's variable geometry inlet wind tunnel test model, in 1985(!).
Unfortunately, the identity of this model cannot be confirmed.


I found this somewhere at Weibo:

View attachment 688034
I love that, especially the image of the 1991 model. I still wonder if the shock come model is before or after that one. Interesting looking at the body shap of them all.
 

J-10C with the spine is indeed for the Ba Yi:

View attachment 688032View attachment 688033

And second, fitting to your historical posts:

View attachment 685686
That's what I said before.
611's variable geometry inlet wind tunnel test model, in 1985(!).
Unfortunately, the identity of this model cannot be confirmed.


I found this somewhere at Weibo:

View attachment 688034
钢铁机机's art.

The drawing is not completely correct, such as the inlet of the first early model.

The pitot tube was already used as the air intake of 新歼(New fighter/10#/J-10), but the shadow of the air intake in that photo eventually misled many people.

By the way, do you know this?

There are two interesting wind tunnel models of J-10, one with wingtip missile pylon and the other with CFT fuel tank.

KUMA
 


By the way, do you know this?

There are two interesting wind tunnel models of J-10, one with wingtip missile pylon and the other with CFT fuel tank.

KUMA


Nope … please tell me more!
I second this.




By the way do this is confirmation that the J-10c has a 29000lbf thrust class engine I suppose?
 


By the way, do you know this?

There are two interesting wind tunnel models of J-10, one with wingtip missile pylon and the other with CFT fuel tank.

KUMA


Nope … please tell me more!
Both models were published very early(2010-2011).These photos (screenshots) can still be searched today. ;)
U86P4T303D23954F14530DT20110211141523.jpg
960a304e251f95ca82e7fe7cc5177f3e660952ed.jpeg
b58f8c5494eef01f0a06740fecfe9925bd317ded.jpeg
 
So a lot of the early J-10 history is merky, including when exactly the aircraft first flew in 1996 or 1998. But years ago their was a topic on key about an earlier turbojet powered prototype. I recently found similar claims on the Chinese web. The 1991 metal mock up may be no mock-up at al
"Turbojet power prototype"is the metal full-scale model prototype.It is only used to confirm the process and assembly.

At that time(1986-1991), WP-15A was the only transitional engine before WS-10, so the model is designed with it as the engine.But as I said before, we soon got another better choice(AL-31FN) in 1992.

Until the project was cancelled (1992), WP-15A only completed the full-scale model prototype, which passed the review in February 1991 and was sent to CAC in April of the same year.
 
So a lot of the early J-10 history is merky, including when exactly the aircraft first flew in 1996 or 1998. But years ago their was a topic on key about an earlier turbojet powered prototype. I recently found similar claims on the Chinese web. The 1991 metal mock up may be no mock-up at al
"Turbojet power prototype"is the metal full-scale model prototype.It is only used to confirm the process and assembly.

At that time(1986-1991), WP-15A was the only transitional engine before WS-10, so the model is designed with it as the engine.But as I said before, we soon got another better choice(AL-31FN) in 1992.

Until the project was cancelled (1992), WP-15A only completed the full-scale model prototype, which passed the review in February 1991 and was sent to CAC in April of the same year.
Does the model with the shock cone predate the 1991 mock-up?
 
So a lot of the early J-10 history is merky, including when exactly the aircraft first flew in 1996 or 1998. But years ago their was a topic on key about an earlier turbojet powered prototype. I recently found similar claims on the Chinese web. The 1991 metal mock up may be no mock-up at al
"Turbojet power prototype"is the metal full-scale model prototype.It is only used to confirm the process and assembly.

At that time(1986-1991), WP-15A was the only transitional engine before WS-10, so the model is designed with it as the engine.But as I said before, we soon got another better choice(AL-31FN) in 1992.

Until the project was cancelled (1992), WP-15A only completed the full-scale model prototype, which passed the review in February 1991 and was sent to CAC in April of the same year.
Does the model with the shock cone predate the 1991 mock-up?
yes, but it isn't shock cone.

It's actually a pitot tube inlet, and the part considered as the shock cone is a redundant part of the model.

In this photo, you can see what it really looks like: a pitot inlet with a strange guard.

This angle clearly shows that it does not have the characteristics of shock cone, but conforms to the characteristics of pitot tube inlet.

I hope this will solve your doubts.;)

kuma

14903489317772.jpg
 

J-10 PLAN targeting pod in action
 

J-10 PLAN targeting pod in action

Is that the first time that the J-10s have been seen using the targeting pod? Either way it will give the J-10s a much needed capability boost.
 
I’ve seen

J-10 PLAN targeting pod in action

Is that the first time that the J-10s have been seen using the targeting pod? Either way it will give the J-10s a much needed capability boost.
I’ve seen them parked at air shows with them but I’m not sure if they are actually integrated. Notably this is the Navy’s J-10 so I’m not sure if it holds true for the air force
 

J-10 PLAN targeting pod in action

Is that the first time that the J-10s have been seen using the targeting pod? Either way it will give the J-10s a much needed capability boost.

2016...
 

J-10 PLAN targeting pod in action

Is that the first time that the J-10s have been seen using the targeting pod? Either way it will give the J-10s a much needed capability boost.

2016...
I know, I never saw it before though
 
Some information from the Second To None Magazine (Pakistan Air Force magazine).


A Salute to Dragon Operators

The news of the induction of the latest, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capable, stealthy, 4.5 generation J-10C ‘Vigorous Dragon’, into the No 15 Sqn of PAF remained the top trend in mainstream and social media platforms during the month of March this year. As the nation wanted to know more about the new weapon system of the PAF, the team of ‘Second to None’ decided to visit the Unit and bring out for the readers, the firsthand information from the people at the helm of affairs. Meeting the resolute, professional and highly motivated personnel of the elite No 15 Sqn left no doubt in our minds that the defence of the nation is and will remain in the safe hands of these proud guardians of skies.

Today, No 15 Sqn, is the PAF’s new pointy tip of the spear. It is different from other PAF sqns because of the unique aircraft it operates. Its newest acquisition, the J-10C is a powerful platform, the PAF is proud of. It doesn’t need to fly treetop level, too low to be detected by enemy radar. To conceal itself, the Dragon relies on stealth technology and has advanced weapon delivery capabilities, with a refueling probe that extends its combat range. J-10C has fully integrated weapons, avionics and EW suite that make it a potent weapon system under the contemporary environment of modern warfare. The jet is configured with top class weapons, the PL15 missile and variety of standoff precision munitions, advanced radar, enabling it to detect, engage, and destroy targets at long range in air-to-air and air-to-surface domains. With multi role capabilities, the J-10C aircraft, will revolutionize PAF’s operational thought, ensuring impregnable defence of the nation.

The most distinguished capability the No 15 Sqn has, is the precision and the accuracy of the fire power it can deliver. And of course, one of its most striking features are the pilots in the squadron. This is what brought the team of ‘Second to None’ to the ‘Home of Cobras’ on a fine March morning this year. Majority of pilots and the ground crew of No 15 Sqn that greeted the ‘Second to None’ team were part to of the first contingent that had gone through of gruelling training of J-10C at Chengdu China.

The Aircraft

As we got settled in the office of the Officer Commanding, No 15 Sqn, it was the time for an informal chat with the men at the helm of affairs. “It’s no ordinary combat aircraft. It’s a supersonic high-performance super computer with wings,” said the squadron’s new commander, Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim Shahzada. The J-10C is currently the most modern weapon system of the PAF. This omni-role jet can engage targets in the air, land and on sea, armed with air-to-air missiles and various combinations of guided and un-guided bombs/ missiles. Stationed at their headquarters, their jobs are clearly defined. The Cobras can breach time and space far differently than any other air force in the region. They can escalate quickly, telling the enemy, to stop there and then, and quickly de-escalate, which is also equally important.
Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim is part of the small group of pilots entrusted to fly the PAF’s brand new jets that can be used across all theatres of conflicts. Specialized for the delivery of pin point fire power, the J-10C is capable of things that pilots of the 50s and 60s only dreamed of. Able to withstand nine times the force of gravity and ready to strike anywhere, anytime with precision gives the J-10C a unique edge over its contemporaries. Once airborne, pilots were at the controls of a supercomputer completing thousands of operations per second, all while travelling at speeds faster than sound. The massive engine output was over 29, 000 lbs of thrust. “Kind of like being shot out of a gun, wakes you up, gets your adrenaline going,” said Wg Cdr Bilal Raza of No 15 Sqn.

“Open power and it’s like the plane goes through a transformer sequence,” described Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid of No 15 Sqn while talking to our team. Airborne maneuverability and visibility were excellent, as well as the payload range, the other fighter pilots of the squadron described. “Voice Recognition System available to pilot in the cockpit is also a huge plus. It helps the pilot talk to the aircraft and get the various information required like fuel state, radio channel change etc,” said Wg Cdr Bilal Raza with a smile.

Introduction of low observable technology has changed the way war is waged from the air. Pilots feel they have more space to operate on their own terms – changes that are taking place to make airmen more lethal during battle. “The Dragon is a ghost in the sky, meaning that it’s almost invisible to radar, which has been a nemesis to strike aircraft since long. The aircraft is taller compared with the low seated JF-17,” Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid said. The cockpit is not congested and the jet is powered by one of the best, thoroughly tested, WS-10 Chinese engines.

The squadron pilots were proud of the Dragon’s survivability in a contested environment. This involves the J-10C avoiding threats using standoff weapons from longer ranges combined with updated tactics. The aircraft can send weapons to different targets with one button push whereas before it took a lot of pilot’s workloads. The combination of J-10’s tight turn radius and array of PL missiles allows no chance to aggressive enemy fighters.

“If an enemy jet finds itself in close quarters of J-10, its left to choose between two difficult options – out turn the J-10 and fire weapons before it can or turn tail and run. Problem is if the enemy turns and runs, he’s running into PL-15’s trap,” said a young officer at the sqn.

The first time the PAF pilots flew the J-10C that’s when they really started to appreciate what the new weapon system can do for them. The Helmet Mounted Display (HMD), enhanced situational awareness, offering the same overlay in all directions as the Heads-Up Display (HUD), with complete weapon envelope available. “Every detail is displayed on the helmet visor with every turn of the head when looking outside the cockpit. The weapon is looking in the same direction as the pilot – look, lock, shoot,” said Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid.

It all looks graceful and beautiful but what many do not see is all the practice and repetition that goes into making it look that way. Flight operations in a new aircraft are notoriously tough, said Sqn Ldr Bilal Raza, “If you’re not focused and prepared you won’t last in this business very long.” Fighter pilot, the words convey something in the spirit that lies in our squadrons, something young and vigorous, decisive, wanting action at once and finding its expression in the struggle going on every day in air. These young men won’t just be watching a movie such as Top Gun or Iron Eagle, they’ll be starring in it, in their futuristic jets that would prove to be the frontline PAF jet that would rival the most high-tech fighters of today.

Futuristic Flight Lines

During the visit, the Second to None team witnessed some new protocols being introduced at the flight lines for maintenance and handling of the newly inducted weapon system. On enquiry, we were told that ACM Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, the CAS PAF has given a new vision of ‘Model Flight Line’, in line with the dictates of any modern air force. During the visit we saw the practical manifestation of that vision unfolding in its true letter and spirit. “This vision has brought about a positive cultural change, the way the flight lines would now operate. Based on modern and practical concepts of maintaining/ handling the aircraft, the ground crew would now operate more efficiently,” Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim, OC No 15 Sqn said. The visuals at the flight lines were impressive.

The ground crew that can easily be dubbed as the ‘Soldiers of the Weapons’ were seen on duty in their new ‘Half Sleeve Coveralls’. These resilient men of No 15 Sqn in their smart and practical new gear looked more impressive as compared to their earlier turnouts. When it came to pulling the aircraft out of the pen, we were amazed to see a mechanical towing machine, formally known as ‘Aircraft Tow Device’ (QW-15) doing that instead of ground crew manually pulling the aircraft. We were glad to know that with the modern weapon system also comes the advanced and sophisticated maintenance protocols.
In the meanwhile, we saw a Dragon taxiing back to flight lines after completing an operational training mission. As the Dragon approached the parking bay, we once again observed something new. A smartly turned out ‘Marshaller’ wearing super soundproofed wireless headsets marshalled the aircraft while remaining in conversation with the pilot all the time during parking sequence. This was another modern gadget been introduced with the new weapon system that would also be adopted by other PAF sqns in due course of time.

At the flight lines we observed that Operational readiness of the Dragon was given the highest priority. There were various experts for the new aircraft, mechanical and electronic specialists seen in action everywhere. The squadron’s technical groups moved into position high-tech electronic devices to keep the modern combat aircraft mission ready at all times. As soon as the pilots brought back their Dragons after routine missions, the ground crew headed by their Engineering officers immediately took the jets into shelters for inspection, performing post flight checks. Coupled with visual inspection, an electronic inspection was also carried out using the smart and sleek looking Laptops connected to aircraft.

“It’s an advance weapon system far ahead of the other Chinese systems we use to operate in 70’s. It is easy to operate and easy to maintain, really a pleasure to work on this beauty. The ‘Wireless Testers’ and ‘Auto Analysis Software’ make our lives very easy to detect, analyze and rectify the faults during post flight inspections,” said Sqn Ldr Ejaz Ahmed, the Senior Engineering Officer of No 15 Sqn. He goes on to tell us that F-16s even does not have this capability of auto analyses which gives J-10C a remarkable edge over its contemporaries. In short, we could feel the sense of responsibility, in depth technical understanding and conscientious work, which are basic requirements in any modern maintenance unit, were all seen in their true meaning at the Dragon’s flight lines.

Cobras Glorious Past

No 15 Sqn also known as the ‘Cobras’, have a glorious history of service to Pakistan during war and peace. As you enter the main Headquarter building of No 15 Sqn, a feel of pride grasps you right from the start. Aesthetically curated corridors depicting the proud history of the unit takes the visitors deep down the memory lane. As one side of foyer area depicts the portraits of gallant shaheeds, the other displays the battle colour awarded to the sqn during its remarkable services to the nation during wars. It has the unique distinction of first kill on 10 April, 1959, when Flt Lt Muhammad Younis, shot down an IAF Canberra over Rawalpindi, making the Eid day more special for the whole nation. Later the unit was active in the 1965 and 1971 wars achieving three more aerial kills. More recently, the squadron provided the main offensive effort during Operation Swift Retort, on 27 February, 2019 when its Mirages struck the enemy positions using stand-off weapons with pin point accuracy. Another interesting factor which got our attention was the presence of the portrait of ACM Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu in the line-up of Officer Commandings in the honour board of No 15 Sqn. On further enquiry, it was revealed to us that the honourable CAS has commanded the Cobras from Dec 2003 to Jul 2005, a unique honour for the No 15 Sqn, indeed.
While talking to the team of Second to None towards the end of the visit, Wg Cdr Imtiaz Rahim was very proud about the new induction. He said “No 15 has a unique honour having scored the first kill for Pakistan Air Force. When the time comes, No 15 Sqn, being equipped with this aircraft will be on the forefront in defence of the country. It’s a beautiful jet, highly maneuverable, highly powerful, but most of all being a 4.5 Gen jet it is unrivaled and unparalleled in the region. Its induction is a game changing event”.

PAF has always been fully motivated and trained to deter any misadventure and aggression regardless of the quantum of the threat. Induction of this weapon system will enhance PAF’s capability to deal with contemporary aerial warfare. We are confident that the personnel of No 15 Sqn, will ensure swift induction/ integration of the Dragons into the PAF fleet, upholding Pakistan Air Force’s legacy and the PAF will continue to live up to the expectations of the nation.
 
Last edited:
That AESA designation reminds me of some popular girlband groups (e.g JKT-48 or AKB-48). Looks to me like 60 by 60 cm in size. The TRM counts could be about 1000-1290 depending on how much the aperture is actually filled.

The air cooling part suggest 2.3 KW/sqm cooling capacity. Maybe one can round it to 3. Assuming 1000 TRM's It suggest detection range of SW-1 3 sqm target at 150 km with PD of 50% and 100 km at PD-90%.
 
Its probably related to the air-cooled LKF601E (Falcon-S7B) AESA radar by LETRI displayed at Zhuhai.

It weighs 180kg, max power 11KVa. Somene counted the elements and reckons there are 864 modules.

Range given is 200km against a fighter target (typically 5 sq m for China), with 20 targets tracked and 4 engaged.
It has GMTI / SAR modes for air-to-ground; a 300km mapping range and 64:1 DBS. Range >=320km versus 3000sqm ship.

View: https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/1063941933712715776
 

Attachments

  • FArCD6LVIAUbVEI.jpeg
    FArCD6LVIAUbVEI.jpeg
    265.2 KB · Views: 94
  • Q9x7JiN.jpg
    Q9x7JiN.jpg
    154.4 KB · Views: 38
  • DsPhf9dW0AA5jpu.jpg
    DsPhf9dW0AA5jpu.jpg
    303.6 KB · Views: 38
  • DsPhhYVX4AAfqvO.jpg
    DsPhhYVX4AAfqvO.jpg
    246.5 KB · Views: 41
  • DsPhie8XgAEA4_T.jpg
    DsPhie8XgAEA4_T.jpg
    91.5 KB · Views: 86
How does that compare to an APG-79 or -83?

I would rate it similar to APG-83 in terms of range. APG-79 tho would have better range as she has more cooling to spare (2.3 KW vs 15.7 KW) The more powerful TRM's + larger module counts give the APG-79 about twice or almost twice (98%) range advantage.
 

Anyone know what he posted? I guess this was the confirmation the J-10 was for real
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom