Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" fighter

JF-17 is produced locally in Pakistan. J-10, as far as I know, is a pure purchase, without local production.
Maybe in the future, if there are additional orders beyond this one squadron, we may see some agreements on local final assembly. But even then, I doubt J-10 figures will ever be very high, compared to JF-17.
These J-10 are not likely to overshadow the F-16 fleet in numbers. And the whole F-16 fleet in Pakistan isn't that numerous at 60-ish airframes. 40-ish of which are quite old 1980s airframes.
Right now, there should be another 100 or so obsolete J7, Mirage III/5 remaining.
 
BullpupRafale said:
totoro said:
Right now, there should be another 100 or so obsolete J7, Mirage III/5 remaining.
Click to expand...
All of them in theory could be upgraded with RD-33 or WS-13 turbofan...
Click to expand...
The Pakistani Mirage III and 5 airframes are between 40 to 50 years old.
The ROSE acquisition and upgrade programme was in my view a logical, well thought out, and successful programme. This resulted in increased numbers, an upgraded aircraft, and developmental work for the Pakistani aviation industry.
The fact remains though, that the ROSE programme was terminated about 20 years ago now.
The time is approaching within the next 5 years or so to replace these fighters...hence the JF-17 programme and acquisition of the J-10.
 
kaiserbill said:
BullpupRafale said:
totoro said:
Right now, there should be another 100 or so obsolete J7, Mirage III/5 remaining.
Click to expand...
All of them in theory could be upgraded with RD-33 or WS-13 turbofan...
Click to expand...
The Pakistani Mirage III and 5 airframes are between 40 to 50 years old.
The ROSE acquisition and upgrade programme was in my view a logical, well thought out, and successful programme. This resulted in increased numbers, an upgraded aircraft, and developmental work for the Pakistani aviation industry.
The fact remains though, that the ROSE programme was terminated about 20 years ago now.
The time is approaching within the next 5 years or so to replace these fighters...hence the JF-17 programme and acquisition of the J-10.
Click to expand...

So if the Pakistani Mirage 3/5 fighters are between 40 to 50 years old, what fighter would the PAF buy next? My guess would probably involve the land based variant of the J-31 since China stopped the export of the J-20.
 
FighterJock said:

So if the Pakistani Mirage 3/5 fighters are between 40 to 50 years old, what fighter would the PAF buy next? My guess would probably involve the land based variant of the J-31 since China stopped the export of the J-20.
Click to expand...
Why J-31?

JF-17 is one that should replace those light weight fighter jets.

J-10C is equivalent to F-16 Block 50/52 or Viper since Pakistan can no longer rely on importing from the U.S. no more.
 
BullpupRafale said:
FighterJock said:

So if the Pakistani Mirage 3/5 fighters are between 40 to 50 years old, what fighter would the PAF buy next? My guess would probably involve the land based variant of the J-31 since China stopped the export of the J-20.
Click to expand...
Why J-31?

JF-17 is one that should replace those light weight fighter jets.

J-10C is equivalent to F-16 Block 50/52 or Viper since Pakistan can no longer rely on importing from the U.S. no more.
Click to expand...

My thoughts about Pakistan buying the J-31 were based on the probable purchase of a modernised variant of the Su-57 by India in the future, it might or might not happen but you can never know for sure.
 
FighterJock said:
kaiserbill said:
BullpupRafale said:
totoro said:
Right now, there should be another 100 or so obsolete J7, Mirage III/5 remaining.
Click to expand...
All of them in theory could be upgraded with RD-33 or WS-13 turbofan...
Click to expand...
The Pakistani Mirage III and 5 airframes are between 40 to 50 years old.
The ROSE acquisition and upgrade programme was in my view a logical, well thought out, and successful programme. This resulted in increased numbers, an upgraded aircraft, and developmental work for the Pakistani aviation industry.
The fact remains though, that the ROSE programme was terminated about 20 years ago now.
The time is approaching within the next 5 years or so to replace these fighters...hence the JF-17 programme and acquisition of the J-10.
Click to expand...

So if the Pakistani Mirage 3/5 fighters are between 40 to 50 years old, what fighter would the PAF buy next? My guess would probably involve the land based variant of the J-31 since China stopped the export of the J-20.
Click to expand...
The JF-17 is the replacement for the F-7 and Mirage III/5. Not just in numbers, but to build upon the competency and experience gained in the ROSE programme. It is currently in production, over 150 have been produced, and almost 2/3rds of the airframe is manufactured in Pakistan, with complete final assembly also happening in-country.
Again, I think it's well thought out, and logical. These are new airframes, with some future development potential remaining.
I think the J-10 purchase being reported is to augment the F-16 fleet in airframe numbers and capability terms.
A higher end fighter to meet regional rivals purchasing or developing newer, more capable fighters is anybodies guess at this stage, and will likely only come into play once regional rivals induct such aircraft.
 
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Does someone have an official Pakistan government link regarding a J-10 purchase?
I'm sceptical of social media announcements from 3rd parties, and prefer official statements.
 
totoro said:
View: https://youtu.be/XvyhiYbDfoo


Allegedly this is the Pakistani minister, announcing procurement. Don't speak the language so I can't vouch for that.
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www.aviacionline.com

Pakistan buys Chengdu J-10 fighter jets from China

The rumor that has been going around for a couple of years has just been confirmed. Pakistan is acquiring more than 25 Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" multirole
www.aviacionline.com www.aviacionline.com

www.indiatoday.in

Pakistan confirms raising squadron of Chinese J-10C in response to India's Rafale jets

The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in

www.newindianexpress.com

Pakistan buys 25 China-made J-10C fighter jets in response to India's Rafale aircraft acquisition

Pakistan has acquired a full squadron of 25 Chinese multirole J-10C fighter jets in response to India's purchase of Rafale aircraft, Interior Minister Sheikh Ra
www.newindianexpress.com www.newindianexpress.com

defensetalks.com

Pakistan Confirms Arrival of Chinese J-10 C Fighter Aircrafts

Pakistan Confirms Arrival of Chinese J-10 C Fighter Aircrafts in order to boost its air superiority against India's Rafale aircraft
defensetalks.com defensetalks.com

Surprised this isn't bigger news as Pakistan is first export customer of J-10.
 
Due to U.S. security restrictions, the J-10 cannot operate side by side with F-16's when they enter service. This article explains the level of oversight that exists pertaining to Pakistan's advanced F-16 fleet.

warontherocks.com

How America’s Experience with Pakistan Can Help it Deal with Turkey - War on the Rocks

In its ties with Turkey, the United States finds itself in a classic Catch-22. Turkish foreign policy often runs afoul of U.S. interests. However, Ankara
warontherocks.com

"On bases where advanced F-16s are present, the United States requires that Pakistan separate them from other aircraft and strictly limit access to the area where they are located."
 
alberchico said:
Due to U.S. security restrictions, the J-10 cannot operate side by side with F-16's when they enter service. This article explains the level of oversight that exists pertaining to Pakistan's advanced F-16 fleet.

warontherocks.com

How America’s Experience with Pakistan Can Help it Deal with Turkey - War on the Rocks

In its ties with Turkey, the United States finds itself in a classic Catch-22. Turkish foreign policy often runs afoul of U.S. interests. However, Ankara
warontherocks.com

"On bases where advanced F-16s are present, the United States requires that Pakistan separate them from other aircraft and strictly limit access to the area where they are located."
Click to expand...
Why, though?
 
Anduriel said:
alberchico said:
Due to U.S. security restrictions, the J-10 cannot operate side by side with F-16's when they enter service. This article explains the level of oversight that exists pertaining to Pakistan's advanced F-16 fleet.

warontherocks.com

How America’s Experience with Pakistan Can Help it Deal with Turkey - War on the Rocks

In its ties with Turkey, the United States finds itself in a classic Catch-22. Turkish foreign policy often runs afoul of U.S. interests. However, Ankara
warontherocks.com

"On bases where advanced F-16s are present, the United States requires that Pakistan separate them from other aircraft and strictly limit access to the area where they are located."
Click to expand...
Why, though?
Click to expand...
Because the J10 will come with a Chinese on site support team, and they will not want a technically skilled team getting hands on with the F16’s. Reading the article, suggests to me, the us team is actually the support team for the f16’s.
 
Fluff said:
Because the J10 will come with a Chinese on site support team, and they will not want a technically skilled team getting hands on with the F16’s. Reading the article, suggests to me, the us team is actually the support team for the f16’s.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure if there was anything that China was interested in F-16 it got since long ago. Pakistan has 16A from, what, 80-es? There are a lot of retired personnel who could answer Chinese questions about how F-16 works.
And there is a case of Venezuela, which is also an F-16 operator.
I could understand if Pakistan had F-16V(N/bl70 whatever is the latest variant), but they have AM and C(M) variants that are not that new.
 
Anduriel said:
Pakistan has 16A from, what, 80-es? ... And there is a case of Venezuela, which is also an F-16 operator.
I could understand if Pakistan had F-16V(N/bl70 whatever is the latest variant), but they have AM and C(M) variants that are not that new.
Click to expand...
Errr...the PAF does have Blk 52s which are quite a step up from the earlier Blk 15s they or Venezuela have.
 
GTX said:
Anduriel said:
Pakistan has 16A from, what, 80-es? ... And there is a case of Venezuela, which is also an F-16 operator.
I could understand if Pakistan had F-16V(N/bl70 whatever is the latest variant), but they have AM and C(M) variants that are not that new.
Click to expand...
Errr...the PAF does have Blk 52s which are quite a step up from the earlier Blk 15s they or Venezuela have.
Click to expand...
And their old aircraft were upgraded, to a close standard. I’m not saying I agree that either the Chinese can or have got the data already, nor that this would stop them, just explaining that even big air forces, will have technical teams, from the manufacturers, on site.
 
The
F-2 said:
Not sure if this the 1991/1993 metal mock up but it does have the round intake!
Click to expand...

There is evidence going back to the Clinton administration that there was active collaboration between the Chinese and Israelis that utilized Lavi technology.

www.google.com

U.S. Says Israel Gave Combat Jet Plans to China

Seven years ago, in the face of mounting costs, the United States withdrew from an elaborate project to help build an advanced combat aircraft for Israel.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
I’ve heard as much before. I understand the intake is related to the engine change? I’m unsure if this is the mock up or 1001 in 1996 before it had to be redesigned (I don’t think any pictures exist pre 1998). I know this pic is the mock up but I can’t tell if it’s the same as above.
 

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aside from the intake differences, is the rest of the plane similar or different from the current J-10? I havent seen a good picture of the sides.. although it seems this older version has a double delta wing.
 
helmutkohl said:
aside from the intake differences, is the rest of the plane similar or different from the current J-10? I havent seen a good picture of the sides.. although it seems this older version has a double delta wing.
Click to expand...
The top one is the same and I think it *might* be 1001 and is otherwise mostly the same. The mock up I’m unsure of I’ve only seen pictures of the front, but I heard it needed to be redesigned but to issues with lower then expected AoA and poorer low altitude mobility. I’m trying to find more pictures.
 
Nice! Cool to see a J-10 wearing a different camo pattern, even if it's still two-tone gray (though the PLAAF scheme cannot really be dignified with the term pattern, as it's just counter-shaded with tones that are so similar as to be virtually identical...)!

helmutkohl said:
wow finally happened! is this the one with the DSI intake?
Click to expand...

Going by the rounded fin tip, it's a J-10B or C with DSI, yes.
 
Trident said:
Nice! Cool to see a J-10 wearing a different camo pattern, even if it's still two-tone gray (though the PLAAF scheme cannot really be dignified with the term pattern, as it's just counter-shaded with tones that are so similar as to be virtually identical...)!

helmutkohl said:
wow finally happened! is this the one with the DSI intake?
Click to expand...

Going by the rounded fin tip, it's a J-10B or C with DSI, yes.
Click to expand...

Interestingly it only has one dorsal antenna, which is what we see on J-10B. However we've seen prototype J-10C with one antenna as well.
 

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