Boeing 737 MAX family NEWS ONLY

Mark Nankivil said:
I just saw where NASA's DC-8 is gong to a tech school with its retirement.
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That's the cover story.
It's really going to the Vatican for exorcism practice.

Stoneciphers are only expelled via prayer and fasting.

"The power of Kelly Johnson compels you!"

HISS!
 
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FighterJock said:
Forgot about the NASA test aircraft Mark Nankivil plus the FedEx examples.
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Saw quite a few MD-11s at Memphis last year on our Spring Break Road Trip after which the announcement came out about retiring their MD-11 fleets. Even saw an MD-10 on the ramp awaiting delivery to a tech school. Really need to get back down there and take pics again....

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

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www.flightglobal.com

NTSB blasts Boeing for releasing ‘inaccurate or unknown’ safety information

Boeing is under fire for releasing information about safety incidents still under investigation by the US National Transportation Safety Board, including details the agency describes as inaccurate.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

The NTSB are doubly displeased with Boeing. Not only did the doors plug media event violate NTSB rules, but so did the dutch-roll announcement from a few days before.

On top of which NTSB says both statements contained inaccurate or unproven assertions (with the 'designed to make Boeing look better' left unsaid). They seem particularly pissed that Boeing portrayed the whole point of the Alaska Air investigation as finding the individual responsible, rather than working out how it was allowed to happen.

Apparently this is the second time this year NTSB have had to slap Boeing's wrist for unauthorised disclosures. They just seem incapable of learning.
 
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Quite honestly, how they got this far down the line mystifies me. Pretty sure most other companies would have sunk beyond trace by now.
 
Well, the right question would be more: how many other airplane companies have we like that out there?
 
Foo Fighter said:
Quite honestly, how they got this far down the line mystifies me. Pretty sure most other companies would have sunk beyond trace by now.
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Because they kept pumping the stock price. The current state of US industry allows only three checks on a huge company like this: regulatory agencies, Congress, and the stock market. The Agencies aren't funded/empowered enough, Congress is Congress, and the stock market only cares about "share price go up."
 
TomcatViP said:
Well, the right question would be more: how many other airplane companies have we like that out there?
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That answer is "none in the US, and only one other in the world"

So I'm betting that Boeing Commercial gets bailed out. With a massive restructuring involved.
 
publiusr said:
Not with my tax dollars--for those, it should be nationalized...CEOs and managers replaced by Drill Instructors barking at soldiers putting the planes together.
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Dude, the government cannot make a successful business out of a whorehouse.

I'm not joking, the IRS took over one in Nevada (legal business in that county), and the place closed.
 
www.flightglobal.com

Boeing insists companywide overhaul ensures every aircraft it produces is safe

Boeing is calling attention to what executives describe as broad and effective measures taken in recent months to improve the quality and safety of the commercial jets rolling out of its production facilities.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

'“The fact that one employee could not fill out one piece of paperwork, in this condition, and result in an accident, was shocking to all of us,” says Lund.'

No mention of the systems that allowed it to happen, and then failed to catch it. *Sigh*

Also pretty much says Boeing was taking recruits off the street and putting them on the line unmonitored with only days of training.
 
DWG said:
TLDR: 1-Boeing has three different teams working on the door plugs, plus the team from Spirit working on the hole where the door plug should go. 2-Team A removed it to let Team Spirit do their fix, but 3-apparently didn't generate any paperwork to say it needed to be put back. 4-Presumably they had a work order for this, and presumably every aircraft has a work log of some description. Why did that work order not tag the door as not fit for flight? And generate a placeholder work order for putting it back? 5-Team Doors then put the door plug back in 'temporarily', 6- without the bolts, 7-because they were moving the aircraft outside and didn't want things getting wet. Apparently they do this 'often'. (*headdesk* Why aren't the doors team making entries in the work log to say the aircraft has an not-fit-for-flight-part-fitted? And checking the paperwork to ensure a fit-for-flight fix is in the system). 8-And finally there's team C who should have done the work, who we've been blaming for months, who were never told the work needed doing.

About the best you can say is it's a miracle this never happened before. The entire process positively invites a cockup.
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Sweet Jesus, what you describes looks like a mental asylum rather than an aerospace company.

Boeing python's flying circus.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QfqJwkuCTw
 
Once again, that this airframe went into service and flew for a considerable time (given the plugged exit door was free to move and didn´t provide full sealing as reported by passengers) is a proof that the asylum extend way beyond Boeing. In my book, cabin crew are to inspect the cabin, ground crew are to insure that the plane (and its cabin) are in order to safely host passengers for the next flight and front seaters (let´s call them that way) are accountable for following the plane airworthiness as does the FAA when attributing a registering number (you don´t just stamp an approval because a big stuff is parked on the front apron).

Hell yeah, something went wrong :mad:
 
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Moose said:
Because they kept pumping the stock price. The current state of US industry allows only three checks on a huge company like this: regulatory agencies, Congress, and the stock market. The Agencies aren't funded/empowered enough, Congress is Congress, and the stock market only cares about "share price go up."
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Something mentioned numerous times in the John Oliver video
 
TomcatViP said:
Once again, that this airframe went into service and flew for a considerable time (given the plugged exit door was free to move and didn´t provide full sealing as reported by passengers) is a proof that the asylum extend way beyond Boeing. In my book, cabin crew are to inspect the cabin, ground crew are to insure that the plane (and its cabin) are in order to safely host passengers for the next flight and front seaters (let´s call them that way) are accountable for following the plane airworthiness as does the FAA when attributing a registering number (you don´t just stamp an approval because a big stuff is parked on the front apron).

Hell yeah, something went wrong :mad:
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The plug was hidden behind the cabin lining panels, which the cabin crew would have needed to remove for any meaningful inspection. Have you ever even *looked* at the inside of an airliner cabin? What it takes to inspect what is covered by those panels? You are flogging that dead horse again.
 
TomcatViP said:
In my book, cabin crew are to inspect the cabin, ground crew are to insure that the plane (and its cabin) are in order to safely host passengers for the next flight and front seaters (let´s call them that way) are accountable for following the plane airworthiness as does the FAA when attributing a registering number (you don´t just stamp an approval because a big stuff is parked on the front apron).
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The cabin crew would need to disassemble the area where the plugs are in order to make that inspection. Including removing the seats so that the interior panel can come out. They'd get fined tens of thousands of dollars personally for doing so, as that is not something they are permitted to do by the Federal Aviation Regulations. That's the job of a MECHANIC. And then corporate would get fined on top of that for requiring their employees do something prohibited by the FARs. Corporate would also likely be in breach of the collective bargaining agreements with their mechanics as well, for another very large fine, this time going to the union.

If the plug is seated properly, it sits flush or very nearly so with the skin of the aircraft. I'm talking less than 1mm/0.040" here. Ground crew might note that the plug is sitting a little proud of the surface, which would require the mechanics to disassemble the interior to check the plug. Two or three rows of seats depending on where the seat pitch ends up relative to the interior panels, and that's not counting where to put those seats so they're out of the way... It may require removing every seat behind the plugs so they have room to work!

Considering that EVERY 737 MAX has already had that done (by January 27) and any deficient plugs corrected (and reported to the NTSB), you're asking for a hell of a lot of appearance of compliance for absolutely no actual compliance.
 
No. All pilots have that responsibility.

Since they were aware of passengers reports, they could have simply directed the cabin crew to confirm/infirm the report (fresh air abnormally entering the cabin) and, in case of any doubts, direct one of them to pass their hands around the joint while in flight*. Easy and Quick.

Pilots are not requested to be Engineers or Mechanics. But they are trained and supposed to make themselves proficient to troubleshoot safety problems (at least alert when a potential one surface). There is much more than starring at charts or the 1st class menu.

*They are the ones supposed to know that there is an emergency exit hidden there
 
TomcatViP said:
No. All pilots have that responsibility.

Since they were aware of passengers reports, they could have simply directed the cabin crew to confirm/infirm the report (fresh air abnormally entering the cabin) and, in case of any doubts, direct one of them to pass their hands around the joint while in flight*. Easy and Quick.
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That joint is covered by interior paneling. Any joints visible inside the cabin are joints between panels, not the joint of plug to fuselage. When was the last time you were inside an airliner?

Passing your hands over random panel joints is extremely unlikely to help.

The only proper way to check the plug's state, is, as already mentioned by @Scott Kenny :
1) remove several rows of seats
2) remove the panel that covers the plug
... as has since been done, at considerable cost, on any plug-afflicted 737 MAX. On terra firma. By mechanics.
 
@Arjen : If passengers report abnormal airflow coming out of the panel, passing your hand along the joint or in its general location would confirm/infirm a breach or anything else deemed abnormal. There is enough here to direct an inspection.
That´s their job.
 
TomcatViP said:
No. All pilots have that responsibility.

Since they were aware of passengers reports, they could have simply directed the cabin crew to confirm/infirm the report (fresh air abnormally entering the cabin) and, in case of any doubts, direct one of them to pass their hands around the joint while in flight*. Easy and Quick.

Pilots are not requested to be Engineers or Mechanics. But they are trained and supposed to make themselves proficient to troubleshoot safety problems (at least alert when a potential one surface). There is much more than starring at charts or the 1st class menu.

*They are the ones supposed to know that there is an emergency exit hidden there
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No, there was NOT an emergency exit there... there was a plug that completely sealed (or was supposed to) that opening with the only way to open would be to remove interior finish panels and unbolt the 4 bolts.
 
C´mon, we all know what we are discussing. There are no doubts among us (we have all seen the installation diagram posted in this thread) that the plug is covered by the interior finish.
If the seal is breached, the airstream abnormal intensity and effect will still be localized, as reported by passengers. We have temperature gradient and outflow*. Those kind of things are directly affecting passenger comfort (at the least), something that is the responsibility of the crew (including the front seaters) to survey and address.

*Whistling noises were reported if my mem stands right
 
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