WS-202A, LRI-X (F-108 Competitors)

[Overkiller]

Republic AP-75, from Aviation Week 5th December 1958, via Tony Buttler.

Any chance of a 3 view drawing?

This looks like an idea I have had in my head for some time for a twin engined variant of the F105, though I imagined the engines mounted EE Lightning stylee one above the other.

 

[Skybolt]

Ap-75 looks more like a down-to-earth F-103 with two side-by-side engines and a "normal" cockpit. Beautiful aircraft, BTW.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Republic AP-75, from Aviation Week 5th December 1958, via Tony Buttler.

And to Tony by way of *me*, actually.

*gloat*

 

[Orionblamblam]

Republic AP-75, from Aviation Week 5th December 1958, via Tony Buttler.

Any chance of a 3 view drawing?

Very little. I'm sure one exists somewhere, but the Republic archives were pretty much *wholly* destroyed. DTIC or NTIS might have further info in some report squirreled away somewhere, and there might be some former Republic employee who packed away drawings... but Republics efforts, unlike Boeing, are very poorly recorded.

 

[sferrin]

Republic AP-75, from Aviation Week 5th December 1958, via Tony Buttler.

And to Tony by way of *me*, actually.

*gloat*

LOL! BTW do you happen to know what engine they'd intended for that?

 

[Orionblamblam]

Sadly, no.

 

[elmayerle]

Republic AP-75, from Aviation Week 5th December 1958, via Tony Buttler.

And to Tony by way of *me*, actually.

*gloat*

LOL! BTW do you happen to know what engine they'd intended for that?

It'd be strictly an educated guesstimate on my part, but I'd be inclined to say a pair of late-model J75s, most likely, with a pair of J93s as the second most likely.

 

[Skybolt]

Scott, any hint that Boeing tendered a project to LRI-X? And Convair?

Thanx!

 

[Antonio]

There was a very early concept for a LRI based on a Boeing B-47 armed with AAM but I have never heard about LRI fighter designs from Boeing.
Convair proposed a couple of B-58 LRI concepts

 

[Skybolt]

I seem to remember some design in the Miller's book on the Hustler

 

[sferrin]

Republic AP-75, from Aviation Week 5th December 1958, via Tony Buttler.

And to Tony by way of *me*, actually.

*gloat*

LOL! BTW do you happen to know what engine they'd intended for that?

It'd be strictly an educated guesstimate on my part, but I'd be inclined to say a pair of late-model J75s, most likely, with a pair of J93s as the second most likely.

The nozzles seem more J-79 sized otherwise I'd be in agreement.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Scott, any hint that Boeing tendered a project to LRI-X? And Convair?

I know Boeing did... I got from Tony Buttler a perspective drawing of the Boeing design. As for Convair, not sure. There were a number of F-106 derivatives that may have been.

 

[elmayerle]

Republic AP-75, from Aviation Week 5th December 1958, via Tony Buttler.

And to Tony by way of *me*, actually.

*gloat*

LOL! BTW do you happen to know what engine they'd intended for that?

It'd be strictly an educated guesstimate on my part, but I'd be inclined to say a pair of late-model J75s, most likely, with a pair of J93s as the second most likely.

The nozzles seem more J-79 sized otherwise I'd be in agreement.

Going by the size of the nozzles relative to the cockpit, I'd argue that J75s are the most likely for the performance they were looking at, though engines of similar size such as the Orenda Iroquois or the J-67 would be equally likely (note on the J67, Sir Stanley Hooker's autobiography, "Not Much of an Engineer" gives an interesting perspective on this engine, derived from teh 100 series Olympus, he doesn't think much of the Curtiss-Wright management and engineers). I think J79s would be a bit small; Lockheed's entries, as far as I know, used either four J79s or two J93s.

 

[Skybolt]

Lockheed's entries, as far as I know, used either four J79s or two J93s.

Ok, now you HAVE to show at least ONE Lockeed's entry ;D Or we have to wait until 2007 for Tony's (and a lot of friends') marvel ???

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From Tony Buttler

Just to clear the discussion, the Boeing LRI was the Model 712, a slim high wing design with a tapered swept wing and all-moving tail. This aircraft, like most of the first series of LRIs, was powered by J67 engines.

 

[Antonio]

Skybolt,

I'm not sure if this couple are Lockheed LRI-X studies

Source: Skunk Works. The first 50 years. Jay Miller. Aerofax

 

[elmayerle]

Skybolt,

I'm not sure if this couple are Lockheed LRI-X studies

Source: Skunk Works. The first 50 years. Jay Miller. Aerofax

Yep, they are. The versions with four J79s had them twinned in mid-wing pods siimilar to these.

 

[Antonio]

Evan,

could you post the pic, please :?

 

[elmayerle]

Evan,

could you post the pic, please :?

I would if I knew where it was. Several moves since I acquired it have rather jumbled and scattered my files. It's not that much different from what's been posted, save that each engine pod had twinned J79s instead of a single J93.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Evan, if I lived near you I'd volunteer to clean up your files. I'm sure lots of interesting items live in them!

 

[elmayerle]

Evan, if I lived near you I'd volunteer to clean up your files. I'm sure lots of interesting items live in them!

*gentle chuckle* I'm absolute sure of that, I know some of the stuff in there. Even what I can find is interesting, I just need to scan a few things for here and elsewhere. Good thing I've got a holiday weekend coming up.

 

[boxkite]

Is this the beginning of secret projects forum tourism ? Evan, how many people can you accommodate at once ;D?

 

[devi]

Lockheed TDN Model CL-288-1:

length-----------------------96' 2''
span-------------------------49' 9''
span of the stabilizer----24' 8''
height-----------------------22' 10''
Base the chassis ---------21' 10''
Track the chassis --------12' 0''

WS-202 (LRI-X): F-108 competitors:

LRI-X, different time:

Boeing Model B-712...
GD/Convair Model 4(any version) or Model ?
Douglas Model D-1???...
Lockheed TDN Model CL-288...(CL-288-1)------CL-320
Martin Model M-302-----Model M-308---Model M-314
McDonnell Model M-36(any version)----or Model M-?
North American Model NA-236------------------------------------------------------Model NA-257/XF-108
Northrop Model N-126....Model N-144----Model N-149---Model N-167(---Model N-176)(?)
Republic Model AP-75

Up to final:

Lockheed TDN Model CL-320
North American Model NA-236
Northrop Model N-149 or N-167(?)

final:
North American Model NA-236(the winner of competition)----late,then Model NA-257/XF-108
Northrop Model N-167.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Devi - can you post your sources of information?

 

[Skybolt]

I think that Devi rationalized info already in this thread (or other similar, like mine on the Martin misterious project numbers, nee XB-68 was originally an interceptor). Kudos to him ;D

 

[devi]

Ihave forgotten Vought Model V-391 & Model V-394(LRI-X, different time

 

[Skybolt]

Devi, for a moment I imagined you discovered something more on the Voughts than a simple description in the projects list... ;D

 

[Archibald]

February 1953
Northrop starts series of LRI-X studies starting with Delta Scorpion design (F-89D with delta wing)

May 1953
Northrop N-126 to LRI-X. Three designs: F-89D delta evolution, N-126A and N-126B

June 1954
Northrop LRI-X studies: Revised N-126 and N-144


The N-126 and N-144 are particularly interesting. aparently there was also a N-168.
I've got a pic of the N-168 (Le Fana de l'aviation HS, la deuxième génération jets)
Pics of the 126 and 144 anybody ?

 

[Archibald]

According to Le Fana

Northrop N-168

Wing area 168 m2
4* J-67 turbojets
8° anhedral of the wing

 

[elmayerle]

Minor note, the cockpits, radar/fire control, and weapons fit of the F-108 were all recycled for the YF-12. I've seen drawings of both the F-108 and YF-12 instrument panels and they're indentical.

 

[Skybolt]

3-views of 126 and 144 in both Air Power 1991 issue on Delta-wing Northrop Interceptors and Minidocavia on Northrop Aircraft by Pelletier.

 

[Skybolt]

Ok, I'll post this night!! ;D

 

[Archibald]

yeeeeepeeeeee!! thanks Skybolt

 

[Skybolt]

First is the N-126, 1954 configuration; second is the N-144. There were also N-149, N-167, N-176 and N-184 (a smaller N-176). N-176 was pitted against the North American F-108 (a a lot of others...) and lost.

 

[Archibald]

Thank you very much, Skybolt!
QUOTE- There were also N-149, N-167, N-176 and N-184 (a smaller N-176). - QUOTE

any pics of these projects ? :

 

[Antonio]

any pics of these projects ?

Archibald,

all that projects and much more from Northrop can be found at Minidocavia "Les Avions Northrop" (btw I bought my copy at Nancy when I was last June )

 

[Orionblamblam]

Lockheed's F-108/LRIX entries were under the CL-288 and CL-320 study numbers.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Patent drawings for N-126

 

[Sentinel Chicken]

Help, help, there's a Delta Scorpion infesting my computer hard drive!

Work in progress......

 

[Archibald]

Already awesome... you'll have to post that in the whatif forum... ;D