Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III

[Abraham Gubler]

Thanks for a great and detailed answer.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

At long last, my F8U-3 monograph has been published by Steve Ginter. It includes details that you probably haven't seen on the F8U-3 and the Grumman Design 118 (both twin and single-engine versions), as well as information on the competition between the F8U-3 and the F4H.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Congrats Tommy - looking forward to seeing and getting a copy at the local hobby shop.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[sferrin]

Huh. Doesn't appear to be listed on the Ginter website. ???

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Huh. Doesn't appear to be listed on the Ginter website. ???

I've sent Steve an email about that. Some of his other monographs are no longer listed as well although I know they're available. The F8U-3 monographs came off the press about 10 days ago (I have a box of them) so be assured that they are being distributed.

 

[Sundog]

WTG Tommy, I've added it to my list of must have books.

 

[Antonio]

Thanks for the book, Mr. Thomason I'm ready to order it

 

[RanulfC]

From Ed Rasimus on rec.aviation.military (F-105 pilot and author of "When Thunder Rolled")

"The F-105 had 36 gallons of de-ionized water in a "saddle" tank that
rode over the AB section of the engine. The J-75 was rated at 24,500
pounds in max. power and 26,500 in max with water injection. The water
was only used for take-offs and was only introduced after burner
light-off. Let there be no doubt in your mind, the 2000 pounds of
thrust was very real and readily apparent to the pilot.

I was stationed at Hill AFB when they flew out the last two F-105's from the reserve squadron here. As an 'aside' let me state that it wasn't "apparent" to JUST the pilots when they put their "foot-into-it" for take off! I was at the opposite end of the runway when they spooled up for take off, the thunder kind of sent a thrill up you spine but when they lit off the burner and kicked in the injection system there was this deep, penatrating "THUD!" that rocked me back on my heels.

I'd never really appreciated the "Thud" all the much before that evening, but I damn well won't ever forget them )

Randy

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All!

I've received my copy of Tommy's book and it is one that you'll want to get. Well done with coverage of the other competing designs (besides the F4H-1 Phantom II) that'll appeal to us Secret Projects types. The Grumman designs were particularly interesting to me. I give the book 6 stars on a scale of 1 to 5 with 5 being excellent!

Well done Tommy, well done!

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[sferrin]

From Ed Rasimus on rec.aviation.military (F-105 pilot and author of "When Thunder Rolled")

"The F-105 had 36 gallons of de-ionized water in a "saddle" tank that
rode over the AB section of the engine. The J-75 was rated at 24,500
pounds in max. power and 26,500 in max with water injection. The water
was only used for take-offs and was only introduced after burner
light-off. Let there be no doubt in your mind, the 2000 pounds of
thrust was very real and readily apparent to the pilot.

I was stationed at Hill AFB when they flew out the last two F-105's from the reserve squadron here. As an 'aside' let me state that it wasn't "apparent" to JUST the pilots when they put their "foot-into-it" for take off! I was at the opposite end of the runway when they spooled up for take off, the thunder kind of sent a thrill up you spine but when they lit off the burner and kicked in the injection system there was this deep, penatrating "THUD!" that rocked me back on my heels.

I'd never really appreciated the "Thud" all the much before that evening, but I damn well won't ever forget them )

Randy

I grew up in Sunset and our house was right under the pattern. F-105s were always my favorite growing up.

 

[JFC Fuller]

On the subject of the J58, according to the TFX contract investigation the Navy spent upwards of $120 million on the J58 including a full 150 hour test program.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Greetings All -

Drawings for the 2 seat -3, courtesy of the Vought Archives.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Mark - Thanks for that. There was a second study that had the two seats side-by-side in order to not increase the length.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Mike Machat posted this high res jpg of his beautiful XF8U-3 painting on Facebook

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Higher res copy of previously posting pic


Source: Posted by Pedro De Figueiredo‎ on Facebook

 

[Stargazer]

I am absolutely no fan of the Crusader III, have never been, never will be, but I must admit Mike Machat's painting is just stunningly beautiful!

 

[Trident]

It's definitely a keeper! Nice find, and most generous of Mr. Machat to share.

 

[Motocar]

Schematic Court XF8 Vought Crusader III, the proposed single-engined fighter with a stunning performance, cutaway speculative based on the F-8 but with the J-75 engine and tweaks to recreate this advanced game, author Aviagraphica and modified byMotocar

Success

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Definitely speculative. The inflight refueling probe was on the left side of the fuselage, not the right side. Unlike the F8U-1/2, there were to be two pylons on each side of the fuselage, not one with an adapter, to carry four Sidewinders. At the time the F8U-3 was cancelled, there were no wing pylons planned, but in that case I'm sure they would have been adopted as they were on the F8U-2.

 

[sferrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBkmn2f_z90

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

This was part of Vought's marketing campaign to convince the Navy that a second crewman (i.e. in the F4H) was unnecessary for the fleet air defense mission. Another was a very advanced fixed-base cockpit simulator that could be "flown" to demonstrate all the features shown.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x4Wv8G4URk

 

[famvburg]

What was the Crusader II?

 

[Steve Pace]

What was the Crusader II?

F8U-2 (later F-8C). -SP

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Also see http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/f8u-crusader-variations.html

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Enough stuff here for an even better monography perhaps?

http://libtreasures.utdallas.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10735.1/2811/Guide%20to%20the%20Vought%20Aircraft%20Company%20Collection.html

F8U-3 (V-401) two-place study. 1955 October 7 Report No. 9887. Original VAHF identification number: 129-4.

F8U-3 (V-401) armament control and electronic systems. 1955 October 7 Report No. 9883. Original VAHF identification number: 129-5.

F8U-3 (V-401) study of dayfighter configuration. 1956 February 9 Report No. 10092. Original VAHF identification number: 129-6.

Description of the air conditioning system for the model F8U-3 airplane. 1958 June 4 Report No. E8R-10439. Original VAHF identification number: 129-7.

F8U-3 engine removal mock-up photographs. 1957 July 29 Original VAHF identification number: 129-8.

Service training manual F8U-3 utility systems. 1958 May 1 Original VAHF identification number: 129-9.

F8U-3 weapon system operational analysis studies. 1958 February 1 Report No. 10429. Original VAHF identification number: 129-10.

F8U-3 weapon system brochure. 1958 June Original VAHF identification number: 129-11.

Guide to F8U-3/-3F all weather airplane mockup. 1956 November 29 Original VAHF identification number: 129-14.

F8U-3 all weather missile only fighter. 1955 October 7 Original VAHF identification number: 129-14.

F8U-3 inboard profile. Undated Report No. E8R-11543. Original VAHF identification number: 129-15.

F8U-3 weapon system brochure. 1958 June Original VAHF identification number: 129-16.

F8U-3 weapon system development program. 1957 July Original VAHF identification number: 129-17.

Comparison of F8U-3, F4H, and A3J. 1958 May Original VAHF identification number: 129-18.

F8U-3 estimated asymmetrical pressures on the exhaust. 1958 September Original VAHF identification number: 129-19.

F8U-3 automatic compressor bleed valve stall fix. 1958 October Original VAHF identification number: 129-20.

F8U-3 print engine mounts. 1957 Original VAHF identification number: 129-22.

F8U-3 aircraft hydrogen peroxide leak and residual design problems. 1958 October Original VAHF identification number: 129-25.

F8U-3F visit of Aerojet representatives to Chance Vought. 1958 August Original VAHF identification number: 129-27.

F8U-3 J75-P-6 engine installation and removal of mockup. 1958 March Original VAHF identification number: 129-28.

Status of J75 engines. 1958 December Original VAHF identification number: 129-29.

F8U-3 auxiliary air inlets. 1958 August Original VAHF identification number: 129-30.

F8U-3 information. 1958 Original VAHF identification number: 129-31.

F8U-3 Crusader articles. 1977 Original VAHF identification number: 129-34.

Airpower, "Was Vought's F8U-3 Crusader III crucified by an unworkable fighter/bomber concept?" 1977 July Original VAHF identification number: 129-35.

The structural capabilities of the F8U-3 airplane for flights beyond the present flight boundaries. 1959 January 21 Report No. E9R-11913. Original VAHF identification number: 129-36.

Wind tunnel test of F8U-3 model. 1958 September Original VAHF identification number: 129-52.

F8U-3 program information. 1957-1967 Original VAHF identification number: 129-56.

F8U-3 program history. 1957 Original VAHF identification number: 129-56.

F8U-3 (V-401) design summary for day fighter configuration. 1956 February 9 Report No. 10093. Original VAHF identification number: 129-57.

The J75 powered F8U-3 Crusader. 1956 March Original VAHF identification number: 129-58.

F8U-3 weapon system brochure about operational analysis summary. 1958 June Original VAHF identification number: 129-60.

All weather interceptor weapon system cost analysis. 1958 September Original VAHF identification number: 129-60.

F8U-3 performance improvement study. 1957 Original VAHF identification number: 129-62.

F8U-3 weapons loading versatility study. 1958 Original VAHF identification number: 129-63.

All weather missile fighter F8U-3 system capability. 1958 January Original VAHF identification number: 129-64.

F8U-3 qualification tests; oxygen pressure; and bailout bottle. 1959 Original VAHF identification number: 129-65.

Loads and stress analysis for Chance Vought escape system sled F8U-3. 1958 July Original VAHF identification number: 129-66.

F8U-3 escape system test report. 1959 April Original VAHF identification number: 129-66.

F8U-3 ejection system tests data report. 1959 September 18 Original VAHF identification number: 129-66.

F8U-3 electrical handbook. 1958 Original VAHF identification number: 129-68.

F8U-3 (V-401) performance data. 1955 October 7 Report No. 9876. Original VAHF identification number: 129-72.

F8U-3 performance studies at high altitude. 1955 Original VAHF identification number: 129-73.

F8U-3 drawing for modelers. Undated Original VAHF identification number: 129-75.

Guide to F8U-3 (F8U-3F) all weather airplane mockup brochure. 1956 November 29

F8U-3 weapons system brochure and articles. 1958-1976

F8U-3 log of flights and basic information. 1982

F8U-3 program history. Undated

F8U-1 - F8U-3 brochures, photographs, and articles. 1971-1975

PCI-24. 1957 Engineering release forms for F8U-3.

PCI-25. 1957 Engineering release forms for F8U-3.

PCI-26. 1957-1958 Engineering release forms for F8U-3.

PCI-33. 1957-1958 Engineering release forms for F8U-3.

ECP-1. 1958 F8U-3 electronic equipment.

ECP-2. 1958 F8U-3 electric radar equipment.

EI-91. 1959 Engineering information for F8U-3, V-401, and F8U-1.

EI-92. 1959 Engineering information for F8U-3.

EI-93. Undated Engineering information for F8U-3.

EI-94. 1959 Engineering information for F8U-3.

 

[hesham]

Nice work my dear Paul.

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Enough stuff here for an even better monography perhaps?

http://libtreasures.utdallas.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10735.1/2811/Guide%20to%20the%20Vought%20Aircraft%20Company%20Collection.html

I used most of those for my F8U-3 monograph: http://www.ginterbooks.com/NAVAL/NF87.htm

 

[sferrin]

And an excellent monograph it is. Definitely something any fan of the XF8U-3 would want in their collection.

 

[GeorgeA]

Seconded. Definitely the go-to source on the F8U-3.

Tommy's F-111B book is also a must-read.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yep both are great! Whats next Tommy?

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

An S2F/S-2 monograph from Steve Ginter in late January and a real book, written with Mark Frankel, on jet trainers from Schiffer in late May. Thanks for asking.

 

[Motocar]

Nextly repair the cutaway drawing post...!

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Nextly repair the cutaway drawing post...!

OK - which cutaway drawing post?

 

[Motocar]

Yes...! Cutaway drawing Vough XF8U-3 Crusader III next

 

[Motocar]

Ready....! repost cutaway Vought XF8-U Crusader III

 

[Motocar]

Thanks to Jian10 friend from another forum for his great contribution, the original cutaway Mike Badrocke, my work was a speculative modification made without data or image planes and complements my modest work, but has small areas lost during the scanning process

 

[Motocar]

Ready, a quick touch-up by Motocar

 

[Foo Fighter]

No better than the previous pictures.

 

[circle-5]

No better than the previous pictures.

Compare the nose gear on both images.